ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 16

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So, what will happen to the house now, since I doubt they will be able to rent it out again. Does it get destroyed? Does it get gutted and completely redone? Is there some provision or addendum to rental property insurance that allows a place to be destroyed and the owner reimbursed for full value in the event of a heinous crime committed there? Just wondering if there might be a benefit to someone to not have it exist anymore who might have a vendetta against the owner or management company. I don't know if this type of comment is allowed, but it's MOO, my own random thought.
 
I have been focusing my attention on things we do know about this crime.

We know that it was down in the 20s and the ground was icy and snowy.

We know that the terrain surrounding the home is fairly steep and obscured by flora on the back side and fairly open and level in the front.

We know that the area is very dark at night according to the residents in the neighborhood. They use flashlights to both see and be seen when walking their pets at night.

We think the sliders were illuminated by the Christmas lights hanging over the patio.

The neighborhood itself only has one way in and one way out if traveling by a car.

If the killer escaped by car he would of had to use Taylor rd to flee and i would be very surprised if the police didnt have video of his car that night.

What if he were on foot?

Because of the weather conditions and the terrain he could not of traveled far (maybe a mile or two?) but he could of traveled stealthily due to the limited visability of the area.

I'm thinking the killer would be dressed for the cold and could of worn a heavy coat, ski mask, and gloves, without drawing any suspicions and also concealing a bloody mess of his indoor clothing.

If he was traveling on foot in pitch blackness he could not of been careful with where he was stepping. I think it's likely he would leave behind footprints at least.

By foot or by car I think the police have some evidence indicating what route the killer used to get away.

Knowing what we know I'm inclined to think this was done on foot by someone who lives close by. Someone who understood the physical challenges of getting in and out undetected and the advantages they could exploit to achieve their goal.

I also believe that while this might of been an act of rage. It was not done spontaneously. This was planned out. The grudge might be from months or even year's ago as opposed to something that happened earlier that night.

Anyhow that's my 2 cents of my latest pondering of this.
I hope that in escaping through the dark back yard, the perpetrator stepped into a pile of Murphy's waste and it worked its way thoroughly into the treads of his shoes and the sides of them, and from there onto the floor mats of his car, and everywhere he stepped early that morning. And that even still - for as careful as he may have been in planning and executing his plan to leave little of himself behind - he cannot fully rid himself of what he took away with him so it is like a smelly telltale heart reminder every moment of what he did and how much closer LE is to discovering that it was he who did it. And I hope someone around him remembers that he came in early that morning with dog waste on his shoes and that - given he has no dog - they think that strange enough to call that tip in.

I know. Petty. I don't care. I'm for any path to his discovery that will get LE there. And I would love for him to be known as the murderer who was found because he had KG's sweet little dog's waste all over his shoes.
 
Sometimes I wonder if they tell family that so they don't spend so much time worrying about loved ones having suffered.
They do lie to spare family feelings in my experience. When one of my relatives were killed in a wreck, all of the official people who dealt with us reassured us it was very quick and painless. But per people who were there and the actual reports, that's not what happened. I've not disabused the rest of my family of the notion, and I don't resent the authorities for trying to be kind. But because of that, I am inclined to suspect that all of the family members in this case saying it was quick and painless may not have been told the full truth to spare them the reality. MOO

Anyone here from LE with knowledge of what it means to actually name a POI or even say you have a POI? I used to think LE was saying all of this as smoke and mirrors, but now I think they are being straight up. I’m curious what someone from the field can tell us about this. Is it common to have actual POIs but say you don’t to the public?
My inclination is to believe them when they say they don't have a person of interest. They are under tremendous pressure to solve this case from the community. It would be much easier for them to try to be somewhat reassuring with vague mentions of people of interest. That's not to say that I don't think they still have lines of inquiry to pursue, but I am guessing they are being honest about not having any specific person to focus in on.
 
They seem to be back-pedaling all the time on the "targeted" thing. I have to wonder if the university, from the get-go, asked city police to try to keep fears down. University leaders get so worked up about their public image, especially regarding campus safety. I can see the police being willing to go out on a bit of limb and using the term "targeted" in an attempt to quell fears. It probably didn't seem like too much of a leap, at the time -- because surely someone wouldn't just kill 4 students at random, right?
The city likely has a very tight relationship with the university. At the one presser, there were 5 people at the front of the room: 2 Moscow cops, the district attorney, and two university leaders. It was held at a university building.
It wouldn't be much of a surprise to find out that the university and the city police collaborated on the initial news releases and student alerts.
My hunch is that, eventually, it will be discovered that the term "targeted" was used to appease the university.
I agree that LE is balancing public safety, safety of young adults away from home at university, and the interest of the community. They do not want the public to panic
It seems the word ‘target’ has resulted in a volume of questions because no one knows what was meant by it.
One could interpret that ‘target‘ in many ways
Does it mean
- targeted whoever was in that house?
- targeted a specific person in the house?
- targeted the type of persons who live in the house- coeds?
None of us know what evidence was used to infer there was a ‘target’
So we are left to speculate all the possible interpretations and all of the possible evidences.
It could be that ‘target’ simply means the house is not on a well traveled path, such that to arrive at that house you would have to know it was there.
- it is in a cul de sac- one way in is the same way to get out (driving)

MOO JMO
 
Just food for thought. I’ve had every breed of dog known to man on my farm Georgia. im recently married with 2 dogs similar to K’s. Both labradoodles. I can tell you they are the most protective of dogs that I’ve ever seen..bark at everything (sometimes) but super emotional towards their loved ones.. I’ve always held my other dogs outside but we let these two sleep with us every night. Which ive truly enjoyed. They are super protective of their loved ones. Highly doubt Murphy was in a kennel that night? He was most likely with K or M In the bed. If he was even there. Thoughts?
 
I agree. I think they verified no forced entry and automatically assumed they'd find out real quick what friend it was that did it. They forgot entirely that there are serial killers that specifically look for unlocked doors and kill defenseless victims with knives. This is most certainly not the only case which has gone unsolved in the past 8 years that I know of. If I were to profile, I'd look at a religious cult who believes they are the chosen ones and everyone else are sinners. Specifically women and the party goers and perceived *advertiser censored*, the ultimate sinner.
Sadly...I think "It can't happen here" was part of this.

But it can happen anywhere.
 
walked or on a bike
During the live showing on Banfield and also in the video Brian Entin posted prior to the start of the show (around the 5:21 mark in video below), he mentions a big parking lot right behind the house. I'm not sure if that was mentioned anywhere before because I haven't read through all the threads. But this could also mean the person escaped by car out back. MOO

https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1BdGYyDjgvZGX
 
I think that may have been the case in this house. If every bedroom door had a lock on it, I can imagine that the exterior doors were not locked.
I've thought the same...and that a bf/gf couple would probably definitely lock their door...and the one girl's family member who said she was safety conscious and locked her doors....so that means the killer would have had to pick the locks if he wanted to be stealthy....he would have had to bring a tool to do that, even if it was the simple push button locks that only require something small in diameter, firm and straight.

Maybe the insides of the locks will be swabbed for DNA...
 
I agree. I think they verified no forced entry and automatically assumed they'd find out real quick what friend it was that did it. They forgot entirely that there are serial killers that specifically look for unlocked doors and kill defenseless victims with knives. This is most certainly not the only case which has gone unsolved in the past 8 years that I know of. If I were to profile, I'd look at a religious cult who believes they are the chosen ones and everyone else are sinners. Specifically women and the party goers and perceived *advertiser censored*, the ultimate sinner.
To expand on this theory since this forum moves lightning fast, I'll quote myself. I do believe this was 2 killers, targeting women who party and found their unlocked house likely days prior. I believe you will discover at least 2 of the 4 victims (both female), will have stab wounds through their chest plate and into their heart as the first wound which would have been the fatal wound. The guy I think you will find wounds to the neck and abdomen and likely arms and hands.
 
During the live showing on Banfield and also in the video Brian Entin posted prior to the start of the show (around the 5:21 mark in video below), he mentions a big parking lot right behind the house. I'm not sure if that was mentioned anywhere before because I haven't read through all the threads. But this could also mean the person escaped by car out back. MOO

https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1BdGYyDjgvZGX
its student parking for housing
 
I don't think they should release the 911 call at this point, or possibly ever. IMO the suv behind the red jeep belonged to one of E's siblings (Washington plates and I've seen pictures of the vehicle on social media but can't link). That 911 call likely includes the horrific screaming and crying of 2 very traumatized roommates and 2/3 triplets. No one's morbid curiosity is more important than the privacy of the VICTIMS left in the wake of this tragedy. MOO - that 911 call is horrific and the people there will possibly never recover from what they witnessed/called in - but they sure as hell don't need the public hearing and weighing in on the absolute worst few minutes of their lives. I feel like it's kind of gross to even continue to beat on the issue. The police and FBI have it - let the families grieve in peace without having their trauma played on repeat for the sake of people on the internet - regardless of how well intentioned. JMO
 
The timing of the attacks as soon as they slept leads me to believe that the killer was standing there waiting. But how could he know when each person was asleep? Did he enter previously and install hidden cameras. He could have removed them when he left.
My theory from Day 1 was that he was laying in wait inside the house, although I don’t have any sense of whether it was before or after the 2 surviving housemates got home & his entrance was through the unlocked slider. I don’t think there were cameras involved. And my top hiding location suspicion is the 3rd floor common closet. I think he went there to kill everyone. And I think the reason the 1st floor housemates were spared is because something happened make him think he had to ABORT NOW. Right that instant.

All JMHO.
 
Here’s what bothers me the most about this case: Where was the dog during the murders if no roommates or neighbors heard any barking?

But before I get to that, I want to explain why this case is so stuck in my mind. When I was their age I lived in a campus house with five girls. We had six rooms but one was always empty. I am curious how their living arrangement was set up, if they paid for their housing with student loans it’s possible the house is owned by the University. Otherwise, they probably rent it from a local landlord. My house was owned by the University, our roommates were assigned, and was basically a huge piece of crap with bad street lighting etc. Especially because the house is so close to the frat house, it wouldn’t surprise me if it was university-owned.

I lived on the second floor of a split-level college house. My floor had a sliding door entry that faced the road and was easy to see into. We kept it unlocked most of the time because that’s how friends of those of us who shared that floor would come and go. Though we did generally lock it at night, I’m sure there were nights someone forgot. Not smart, I know. But I grew up in a rural area and remember being confused about having to lock doors when I moved to a city. It’s not engrained in everyone’s head as you may assume. Especially out there.

You had to learn to sleep through everything in that house. My roommate directly above me always had people over and her rabbit thumping around. It was not unusual to come home drunk, lay down, realize there were strange voices coming from above me, fall asleep. And because we had three entries to our various living areas it was easy not to see or talk to your other roommates that often. I definitely couldn’t tell you how many random people came and went that I didn’t realize were ever even there. I even woke up to someone trying to get into my room thinking it was a bathroom more than once.

This is part of the reason that being that age is such a high risk factor for being victimized. It’s a very vulnerable time and you don’t always (or even normally) make the most rational choices— not locking doors, posting your entire night on snap chat with location on, drinking too much without a secure way home, etc. All things that make a good target for a perp. I still sometimes look back and wonder how I survived those years. But that’s the thing, not everyone does survive it, and it’s a tragic reminder how fragile youth is.

So back to the dog. Either the dog was barking and no roommates or neighbors heard him or the dog really didn’t bark. I can’t puzzle out how the dog wouldn’t have barked unless it was in a crate or in a room completely separate from the rest of the house, maybe in the extra room. If it were in another room then maybe it was desensitized enough to noise of people coming and going in the house. I don’t think he would have been outside at that time either, it was cold. Even less likely if we consider LE has suggested they were sleeping already.

When I think about my roommate who had a dog, the crate was always in her room. Especially because strangers do come and go in college houses. I really don’t think she would have gone to sleep without her dog in her room. I just can’t see that. This dog would be a source of comfort for her. I shared a dog my Senior year of college with a boyfriend and I loved that dog, he always slept in the bed or in his crate.
I think we can logically rule out the dog being loose in the room (or anywhere in the house for that matter) Otherwise the dog likely would have barked, possibly attacked the perp, or at the very least stained all of his fur with blood. Looking at recent pictures, it’s very white and it doesn’t appear to have been stained. I also think if the dog were loose this perp wouldn’t have a hard time killing anything in their way (unless the crime was committed related to the ownership of the dog, which has crossed my mind).

So let’s assume the dog was in her room in a crate. I can’t figure out how the dog wouldn’t bark upon a stranger coming into the room. The perp could have been known to the dog, but wouldn’t a dog bark even if they know, or even trust, the person attacking it’s owner? Or, they could have fed the dog to distract him. I just can’t see how someone could get in without waking the girls, get lucky that the dog doesn’t bark, and then give it some food which might make the dog whine and make noises that wake the girls anyway. But let’s just assume the distraction works and the perp is gone before the dog realizes what happens, they can still smell death almost immediately. I really can’t imagine that her dog wouldn’t have barked through the night/morning after realizing something was off.

So even though I strongly believe that she would have kept her dog in her room, I can’t think of a reasonable scenario in which the dog was in the room at the time of the murders and also did not bark. Which means I have to consider the possibility that the dog really was in another room and didn’t bark, in which case I lean towards the extra room being used as sort of a “dog room” for while she is out of the house. My poor roommate’s dog had to be in her room all day when she was at class. It’s common courtesy in a shared house to keep your pet contained while not around.

So…. Where was the freaking dog?

I’ve outlined the possibilities of if the dog really didn’t bark, in that case he was likely in the spare bedroom.

The the alternative is that the dog was actually barking and the roommates and neighbors just didn’t hear him. A dog in distress can be loud, but the layout of the house is strange and maybe dogs in the neighborhood bark a lot and people don’t think twice about it and don’t remember hearing the barking. In that case I feel he was in a crate in her room and was barking, and may even be part of what made the roommates think someone was unconscious.

Some other possibilities, could the dog have been drugged? Could the dog have been muzzled? Could the dog have been locked somewhere by the perp? This would certainly add to the degree of premeditation involved in the crimes.

I wrote this whole novel and realized I don’t even know the name of the dog so brb while I Google it. You get a cookie if you read this far. Please let me know what you think about where the dog was. Was he in a crate? Was he loose? Which room was he in? Did he bark? Did he not bark? I feel like there is something there that we can logically deduce but I just can’t put my finger on it.
 
They seem to be back-pedaling all the time on the "targeted" thing. I have to wonder if the university, from the get-go, asked city police to try to keep fears down. University leaders get so worked up about their public image, especially regarding campus safety. I can see the police being willing to go out on a bit of limb and using the term "targeted" in an attempt to quell fears. It probably didn't seem like too much of a leap, at the time -- because surely someone wouldn't just kill 4 students at random, right?
The city likely has a very tight relationship with the university. At the one presser, there were 5 people at the front of the room: 2 Moscow cops, the district attorney, and two university leaders. It was held at a university building.
It wouldn't be much of a surprise to find out that the university and the city police collaborated on the initial news releases and student alerts.
My hunch is that, eventually, it will be discovered that the term "targeted" was used to appease the university.
I was wondering about that earlier. In the first press conference the chief was asked why they think it is a targeted attack. Part of his response was this:

“In these cases we take the totality of the things that we see and they're very dynamic right? and they're very big and there's a lot of information and we try to take that information and some of what we can't share with you, correct? but we try to take that information, we try to make the best educated decision we can. We review that as a team, with our detectives, along with our prosecutors, along with the University and we try to make that best decision on that. So we, at that time, believed that there was no threat and our goal is to provide safety for this community.”

I remember thinking what role would the University play in determining if an off-campus quadruple homicide was a targeted attack or not? Surely they didn’t tour the crime scenes, view the bodies, conduct interviews, etc. So why do police have to include them on their determination of if it’s targeted?

Post in thread 'ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide - Moscow #2'
ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide - Moscow #2
 
So, what will happen to the house now, since I doubt they will be able to rent it out again. Does it get destroyed? Does it get gutted and completely redone? Is there some provision or addendum to rental property insurance that allows a place to be destroyed and the owner reimbursed for full value in the event of a heinous crime committed there? Just wondering if there might be a benefit to someone to not have it exist anymore who might have a vendetta against the owner or management company. I don't know if this type of comment is allowed, but it's MOO, my own random thought.

Typically the owner has a specialized cleaning company remove biohazards and replace things like carpets and drywall. It’s often covered by insurance. It’s rarely necessary to completely gut an entire property - meth houses and maybe for *extreme* hoarding situations.

Some states require sellers to disclose a home’s “stigma” status but I’m not aware of any state that requires a landlord to disclose same.
 
Anyone here from LE with knowledge of what it means to actually name a POI or even say you have a POI? I used to think LE was saying all of this as smoke and mirrors, but now I think they are being straight up. I’m curious what someone from the field can tell us about this. Is it common to have actual POIs but say you don’t to the public?
There's nothing that says police can't lie to the public about an investigation, but as a practical matter, they generally don't. They commonly withhold information, but they generally don't flat-out lie. If they did, the public would never know when they're being told the truth or being lied to. The public would never be able to trust the police.
If they had a POI or a suspect, they would likely confirm that they do, in fact, have a suspect or a suspect pool, or they would decline to comment on that question. It would be very odd for the police to say they don't have a POI when they actually do, especially in a case where the public is fearful and clamoring for answers.
 
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