ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 16

[AngTxGal]

This article is four years old but it shows why small towns who cannot afford it often call in FBI technology in high profile cases.

FBI plans ‘Rapid DNA’ network for quick database checks on arrestees
New machines create DNA profiles in less than two hours, rather than days or weeks

“A “Rapid DNA” machine can analyze the DNA in a swab and produce a profile of 20 specific loci on the DNA strand in less than two hours.
Some local police departments and prosecutors have been using Rapid DNA machines for about five years to solve crimes.”

I don‘t think Sample Running is the slowest step here, I think it is Collection and Analysis/ Comparison

What is Needed? An Unknown or Known DNA Profile that Cannot due to Identity or Location have come from any other person other than the perp

Why so Complicated? party house with many friends and family visitors plus friends of friends, bloody ‘messy’ crime scene, 2-3 rooms plus possibly pathways of travel, 4 victims
There would be thousands of locations that have the possibility to contain perp DNA- it is Sample Collection that is critical- They don‘t know if the profile is good and is left from elimination until all comparisons are made.

Collections for DNA extraction-
Known Identity Presumed Friendly
- roommates alive and deceased
- all other people in the house that day, recently
- volunteer or warrant samples from anyone near victims in last days- friends/family, driver, patrons grub truck Bar frat party, delivery, maintenance, neighbors
Unknown Identity Friend or Perp??
- strategically collect from house walls/floors/ furniture/doors that could contain perp DNA
- collect from victim bodies, linens, beds, any perp fluids containing DNA, and hair

Compare/ Eliminate- remove all Known Identity Presumed Friendly DNA profiles from all
Unknown Identity Friend or Perp DNA Profiles

What is Left? One or more than one of these-
- A Known Identity DNA Profile- Why is this Friendly profile found in location that is consistent with the perp?
- An Unknown Identity DNA Profile

Compare all Left to databases of offenders
Link Perp DNA Profile to an Identity using other means

Not a needle in a haystack…
More like searching for a Perp Striped Needle in a field of haystacks containing striped needles. And… they do not know the Perps Stripes

I don’t see how they could be there yet- unless they were very lucky
I would be very interested to hear from anyone who works in touch DNA- it seems this would add a nearly infinite number of possibilities
In my opinion

 

[Curiosa20]

I truly believe it’s going to take something like that to close the case. Seems like LE is lost

Oh, man. No, it’s not that bad.There is a lot to sort through.
And IMO they’ve had to tip toe through quite a political minefield.

 

[Bliss_Perth]

Cars seized as hunt for Idaho quadruple murderer intensifies

Police in Idaho seized five vehicles from the off-campus house where four university students were brutally stabbed to death in their beds as the search for the unidentified killer intensifies.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Five cars but only four victims? Two weeks later? This seems very strange, but it is also very early and I am not fully awake.

Does anyone have thoughts on this?

The car parked behind Ethans jeep apparently belongs to his brother and sister who supposedly got called amongst the commotion and got taped into the crime scene so had to be left there.

 

[Curiosa20]

Just wondering how they figure out what blood to sample (most likely to yield crime solving evidence) and what must be left without analysis.

Here you go! This is a fun read

DNA Mixtures: A Forensic Science Explainer

What are DNA mixtures? And why are they sometimes so difficult to interpret?

www.nist.gov

 

[Friday Fan]

I’ve wondered too if they were killed simply because they were happy, free, fearless, smart, independent, pretty and knew how to set boundaries. IMO

Pretty, happy, carefree, successful, had a house the perp could see in, had a house the perp could enter.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Isn't 3 press conferences in a fortnight actually quite a lot?
I appreciate that as a local, the frustration must be high but you also have the Comms guy who's giving separate media interviews very often.

Anyway, appreciating your frustration it's surely past time that a reward was announced?

Well, I only have my own personal experiences ~here~, but I have watched pressers from other places during tragedies.

This is our third mass murder & we’ve had some other tragic crimes. So, I stand by my original statement that the lack of official press conferences this time is different. More officials giving interviews rather than holding press conferences.

 

[Friday Fan]

Here you go! This is a fun read

DNA Mixtures: A Forensic Science Explainer

What are DNA mixtures? And why are they sometimes so difficult to interpret?

www.nist.gov

Thanks! Cool! Will read later!

 

[Lonicera]

Did Anyone Notice At The food truck, One Of The girls Was glued to Her Cell phone The entire time, I don’t think She even looked up more than once or twice, Wonder What she was looking at it or Who She Was texting, If you haven’t seen it go take A look, She Was completly occupied With Her Smartphone…JMO

Yes, I also noticed: I wonder who KG could talk to. In any case, the investigators must know with whom she was in communication: she seemed captivated by this conversation .

 

[Sandy007]

That's very much my take on it as well. Some loser who compares his life with the lives of those vivacious, good-looking college girls, always partying, sexually satisfied, with nothing but the promise of a good life ahead. He has nothing against any of them on a personal level, but as representatives of a group, he loathes them, and might even blame them indirectly for his woeful status. It's not the profile of a psychopath, but of a mass murderer. If he should happen to become suicidal at some point down the road, he might very well go into a public place and start killing people at random. Right now he's not suicidal, and wants to assuage his feelings without getting caught. My opinion only.

My thoughts, exactly. He has expressed his deep very personal feelings (inviding victims personal spaces when they are most vulnerable and sleeping, chosing knife as an weapon, for start) and in the same time, in very impersonal manner killing them one after the other, as a group, not as individuals. I think this contradiction baffles the invedtigators: seemingly impersonal, but in fact very personal to the perpeator killings. That is why the investigators now say that the house (they had in mind the housemates) was a target. Someone made a paralel between a mass killer and this killer and they have a valid point. The only difference is that most of the mass shooters are killed in course of action, the rest - captured and put behind the bars for the rest of their misersble lives. Whilst Idaho killer does not want to be captured, he thinks he is way too smart to be found and arrested. I would check again with the surviving tenants, the landlords, neighbours if there were any works being carried out onside the property, in the area or in the houses around 1122. He may be a maintenance worker. It could be a delivery person. Did the girls ordered food and groceries from same providers? How often? Were the delivery persons changed or they were regulars? Delivery from Amazon? Amazon usually have same delivery person for a particular area. People who wear working gear and tend to be invisible even when someone looks at them. Someone who tried to get a better, more prestigious job, but was rejected, too could be a person that needs to be checked.

It is very complex case, indeed, precisely because of seemingly lack or very little interaction between victims and the penetrator before the murders.

 

[Curiosa20]

do you have a link for that? my first post, I described that in detail, step-by-step. I want to see if mine aligns.

Oh, yes! I remember. YT channel The Interview Room- part 4

 

[Friday Fan]

I really think the calls to J might be important. I'm guessing he either slept through them, ignored them, or had his phone ringer turned off, but that many calls seems significant.

I wonder if the girls left any voice messages? Since J was an "ex" I have to wonder if something happened earlier in the evening that shook up the girls--something that J would be interested in? Maybe someone all three knew caused some issue? I only wonder that because it's not typical to call an ex, but I could see doing it if J was familiar with the person they'd run into.

Just thinking aloud. Theorizing.

I think they likely left voice messages.
I would think J would have shared them with K's family and LE.
K's family supports J 100%.

According to K's family, the calls were about dog custody issues.
The girls had been drinking and were acting silly,
At least that was my impression by what K's family was saying.

MOO...

 

[Friday Fan]

My thoughts, exactly. He has expressed his deep very personal feelings (inviding victims personal spaces when they are most vulnerable and sleeping, chosing knife as an weapon, for start) and in the same time, in very impersonal manner killing them one after the other, as a group, not as individuals. I think this contradiction baffles the invedtigators: seemingly impersonal, but in fact very personal to the perpeator killings. That is why the investigators now say that the house (they had in mind the housemates) was a target. Someone made a paralel between a mass killer and this killer and they have a valid point. The only difference is that most of the mass shooters are killed in course of action, the rest - captured and put behind the bars for the rest of their misersble lives. Whilst Idaho killer does not want to be captured, he thinks he is way too smart to be found and arrested. I would check again with the surviving tenants, the landlords, neighbours if there were any works being carried out onside the property, in the area or in the houses around 1122. He may be a maintenance worker. It could be a delivery person. Did the girls ordered food and groceries from same providers? How often? Were the delivery persons changed or they were regulars? Delivery from Amazon? Amazon usually have same delivery person for a particular area. People who wear working gear and tend to be invisible even when someone looks at them. Someone who tried to get a better, more prestigious job, but was rejected, too could be a person that needs to be checked.

It is very complex case, indeed, precisely because of seemingly lack or very little interaction between victims and the penetrator before the murders.

Oh yeah..delivery...If they're like my kids, they order from Amazon. My kids are constantly ordering. Always packages at their door. I'm sure they ordered food too. MOO

Heck an Amazon delivery person, probably makes a excellent witness!! I wouldn't suspect him/her in a crime, but I'm sure they have good eyes and ears! Just imagine, the Amazon person puts the packages where they won't get stolen. They look for the best spot. If there's a porch pirate Amazon hears about it. Anyway, I bet the Amazon delivery person may know quite a bit about the house and may be able to tell if something was off shortly before the murders. LE needs to question.

 

[AngTxGal]

4 victims, but 5 girls living in the house hence 5 cars parked.
1 or 2 of seized cars belong to surviving girls, no doubt

I was looking at the video showing the location of the cars and their towing
If we can answer some questions we may gain insight into the timeline of Fri/Sat
Knowns:
1. The five cars towed were parked in this layout In front of the house.
RedJeep. WhiteSedan MsSilverRR DOOR BlueSedan
BlkSUV was parked behind RedJeep
2. K and M did not take a car on night of Nov 12, their cars must be parked at house and were unmoved Nov 12 PM. We don’t know when last moved.
3. SilverRR is Ms car
4. Ms RR did not arrive to house until sometime Fri or Sat- and it is nearest to the door.
5. There is a PD vehicle parked to the right of BlueSedan- so that location was empty.

Questions:
1. Whose car is the RedJeep, WhiteSedan, BlueSedan, BlkSUV?
2. Did roommates have designated parking place? or was it first come first serve?
I could see in bad weather the sedans parking near door so as not to get stuck on edges in snow, did other roommates save those spots for sedans?
3. Did X and E take a car to party or walk across to frat house and back?
4. Did surviving roommates each take a car out Nov 12, or were they picked up?

Lots of questions
JMO MOO

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/11/Cars_towed_Moscow_Idaho-2.jpg

 

[everybodhi]

I really think the calls to J might be important. I'm guessing he either slept through them, ignored them, or had his phone ringer turned off, but that many calls seems significant.

I wonder if the girls left any voice messages? Since J was an "ex" I have to wonder if something happened earlier in the evening that shook up the girls--something that J would be interested in? Maybe someone all three knew caused some issue? I only wonder that because it's not typical to call an ex, but I could see doing it if J was familiar with the person they'd run into.

Just thinking aloud. Theorizing.

The victims family has repeated in several media interviews that calling repeatedly many, many times was typical for her. They said she was “on the phone 24/7”.
They have also said they were still very close even after the break up and the family thought they would get back together and eventually marry.
The interviews are on the websleuths media page.
ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide, Moscow, 13 Nov 2022 ****Media Thread**** NO DISCUSSION

 

[alaskanblue]

Forgot to include map to my last post. These are excellent routes to enter and leave the crime scene. Anybody living within this area would at least be reasonably expected to possibly walk past the murder house considering the connected pavement path passing through the buildings in this area. Maybe they walk their dog or go on leisure (scope out the neighborhood) walks.

rsz-1moscow-map-4 hosted at ImgBB

Image rsz-1moscow-map-4 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Really nice work on the possible escape route. I think we all know it's obvious the killer would flee from the back of the house, and going along that tree line would be perfect cover! In the early morning hours chances are no one would see them. I think that could very well be how they left the house.

 

[Sandy007]

I was looking at the video showing the location of the cars and their towing
If we can answer some questions we may gain insight into the timeline of Fri/Sat
Knowns:
1. The five cars towed were parked in this layout In front of the house.
RedJeep. WhiteSedan MsSilverRR DOOR BlueSedan
BlkSUV was parked behind RedJeep
2. K and M did not take a car on night of Nov 12, their cars must be parked at house and were unmoved Nov 12 PM. We don’t know when last moved.
3. SilverRR is Ms car
4. Ms RR did not arrive to house until sometime Fri or Sat- and it is nearest to the door.
5. There is a PD vehicle parked to the right of BlueSedan- so that location was empty.

Questions:
1. Whose car is the RedJeep, WhiteSedan, BlueSedan, BlkSUV?
2. Did roommates have designated parking place? or was it first come first serve?
I could see in bad weather the sedans parking near door so as not to get stuck on edges in snow, did other roommates save those spots for sedans?
3. Did X and E take a car to party or walk across to frat house and back?
4. Did surviving roommates each take a car out Nov 12, or were they picked up?

Lots of questions
JMO MOO

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/11/Cars_towed_Moscow_Idaho-2.jpg

I have no answers to those questions, to be honest.

What baffles me is that the parking at the front of the house was not considered as a part of the crime scene until 22nd of November, whole 9 days after the killings. During that time, between 13th and 22nd, the nvestigators tested the parking ground: lit it with blue light (i saw images) in dusk, that meant to check the ground for tiny blood drops which would illuminate, if tested in such manner. And only on 22nd of November, there were reports that the parking area was added to the crime scene. I guess, they found there something that made them convinced that the perpetrator either parked or crossed the parking after the killings, when his clothes most likely had victims bloods on them. Or perhaps, the killer was bleeding, if they cut himself during the attacks, hence blood DNA.

I am convinced that now LE have killer's DNA. They hinted that the crime scene was slopy, meaning messy and that points that the killer was not professional and left traces.

I am also convinced that after testing the cars in situ last week, the investigators decided to seize them today, perhaps because they found DNA of the killer in one of them? This is my pure speculation, I am trying to link the dots. The car seizing could be just a routine step: to preserve potential, not yet known, evidence.

 

[Perch]

My thoughts, exactly. He has expressed his deep very personal feelings (inviding victims personal spaces when they are most vulnerable and sleeping, chosing knife as an weapon, for start) and in the same time, in very impersonal manner killing them one after the other, as a group, not as individuals. I think this contradiction baffles the invedtigators: seemingly impersonal, but in fact very personal to the perpeator killings. That is why the investigators now say that the house (they had in mind the housemates) was a target. Someone made a paralel between a mass killer and this killer and they have a valid point. The only difference is that most of the mass shooters are killed in course of action, the rest - captured and put behind the bars for the rest of their misersble lives. Whilst Idaho killer does not want to be captured, he thinks he is way too smart to be found and arrested. I would check again with the surviving tenants, the landlords, neighbours if there were any works being carried out onside the property, in the area or in the houses around 1122. He may be a maintenance worker. It could be a delivery person. Did the girls ordered food and groceries from same providers? How often? Were the delivery persons changed or they were regulars? Delivery from Amazon? Amazon usually have same delivery person for a particular area. People who wear working gear and tend to be invisible even when someone looks at them. Someone who tried to get a better, more prestigious job, but was rejected, too could be a person that needs to be checked.

It is very complex case, indeed, precisely because of seemingly lack or very little interaction between victims and the penetrator before the murders.

Agree. IMO this looks more like “targeted” for what they represent, popular, happy, and seeming to “have it all”. That makes it harder because LE has to figure out who was finally triggered to this act. If it was a spurred suitor or jealous ex they would likely have already. I saw another post sharing an opinion that maybe a professional job - a “hit”. We have seen no information that these victims were involved with something that might precipitate that but also IMO worth a strong look at bank records etc.

 

[alaskanblue]

Let's think about the kind of confidence that it takes to go inside of a house in the early morning to kill a whole bunch of people in the dark, in their beds.

The perp is going to have confidence to get to the scene undetected and that confidence is going to match the confidence it takes to enter the house to do the crime.

Thanks for bringing this up. I hadn't really thought about it. I lean towards them being at least an acquaintance in their social circle and the more I think about it, it really would take some composure to not be rattled. Drinking and/or drugs perhaps? Certainly alot of confidence and control with quite a surge of adrenaline if they had never killed anyone before. I'm now beginning to think that they didn't get into the house when everyone was out and lie in wait to strike after they'd all gone to bed. That'd be pretty brash to think everything is going to go according to plan with that extra wrinkle. However, who knows. I certainly hope he is apprehended sooner rather than later.

 

[The Observer]

I was looking at the video showing the location of the cars and their towing
If we can answer some questions we may gain insight into the timeline of Fri/Sat
Knowns:
1. The five cars towed were parked in this layout In front of the house.
RedJeep. WhiteSedan MsSilverRR DOOR BlueSedan
BlkSUV was parked behind RedJeep
2. K and M did not take a car on night of Nov 12, their cars must be parked at house and were unmoved Nov 12 PM. We don’t know when last moved.
3. SilverRR is Ms car
4. Ms RR did not arrive to house until sometime Fri or Sat- and it is nearest to the door.
5. There is a PD vehicle parked to the right of BlueSedan- so that location was empty.

Questions:
1. Whose car is the RedJeep, WhiteSedan, BlueSedan, BlkSUV?
2. Did roommates have designated parking place? or was it first come first serve?
I could see in bad weather the sedans parking near door so as not to get stuck on edges in snow, did other roommates save those spots for sedans?
3. Did X and E take a car to party or walk across to frat house and back?
4. Did surviving roommates each take a car out Nov 12, or were they picked up?

Lots of questions
JMO MOO

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/11/Cars_towed_Moscow_Idaho-2.jpg

As I understand it, range rover is obviously K's, white sedan is M's, blue sedan is X's and red jeep is E's.

 

[Angelcat13]

And I think Eliza's perp was already in the system so an easy/faster match. I'm guessing at that. I have a feeling Idaho killer isn't in the system.

for some reason, this just made my whole stomach lurch.
1. why did they take so long to process the vehicles?
2. it feels final almost. JMO but it feels like they're closing a metaphorical door
3. i wonder if it could also be to protect from the vehicles being broken into?

I, too, have wondered why the vehicles have remained on scene so long. My husband tows for our State Police and the Prosecutor’s Offices for two counties and typically tows vehicles as soon as the scene is processed. Involved vehicles are taken to an indoor, secure facility where access is only granted to limited, approved people. All access is monitored & documented to preserve chain of custody of evidence.

The only thing I can think of in this Idaho case is that they wanted to preserve the scene until they were sure they didn’t miss anything that could have been lost/disturbed by having tow trucks and additional personnel all over the scene.