ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 19

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EmmieA said:
I’m wondering what was going on at the house in the weeks before the murders. Were items missing/stolen? Were the girls feeling unsafe? I have a feeling something must have changed

Have there been cases before where killers stalked their victims prior and actually stole something from them (before killing them)?

MOO
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Absolutely, yes— this idea. I am wondering too. The combination of one family saying the daughter complained of having a stalker and another family saying Dad just changed Xana’s locks leads me to think something creepy was happening.

it could be something vague, (the feeling someone has been in your room or is watching you), to something off being left/ found inside the home. Or a creepy person from property management coming to ‘fix the kitchen plumbing’, but lingering, loitering and making them feel uncomfortable. Could be phone calls like ‘I’m watching you’. Or it could be a roommate or a roommate’s boyfriend or friend who they let in frequently is creeping the others out or is a kleptomaniac . It could be as simple and innocent as one girl too frequently helping herself to another’s clothes and shoes without permission, but SOMEthing wierd was going on to make at LEAST two of the girls feel unsafe, and someone alive knows what it is.
 
cottonweaver said:
what would the Dalai Lama say? Roll and scroll ( Joke. Your WS tag)


until and when the trial starts, we're never going to be fact-rich.
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My response wasn’t being unkind. We are at the point where there will be literally hundreds of pages that have nothing to do with anything. And here I am contributing to it too. :) We delve into every little item, because we don’t have much to go on or new facts. Most of them are irrelevant tho.
 
I’ve been surprised at how quickly each possibility has been publicly cleared in this. Sure, we can say it’s some sort of mind game by LE but I’m not buying that at all. I don’t think the sophistication to go that route is there, and honestly with so many of the officials giving interviews and statements I don’t think they’re doing that.

Do you clear an individual if you believe that they are not the killer, but they have knowledge of what may have happened that night? Are you a witness, a killer, or cleared? Alibis are funny things. Just like it takes time to get evidence back from the lab, it takes time to completely sift through a person’s alibi to ensure that something hasn’t been missed.
 
I feel really bad for these families. In addition to obviously their losses, they put themselves out there for public sleuthing. People bring up their pasts, ask why they aren’t at vigils, etc. can you even imagine being on national news and exposing yourself to the world. But you do it to keep your kids name as a top story.
 
DizzyB said:
I’ve been surprised at how quickly each possibility has been publicly cleared in this. Sure, we can say it’s some sort of mind game by LE but I’m not buying that at all. I don’t think the sophistication to go that route is there, and honestly with so many of the officials giving interviews and statements I don’t think they’re doing that.

Do you clear an individual if you believe that they are not the killer, but they have knowledge of what may have happened that night? Are you a witness, a killer, or cleared? Alibis are funny things. Just like it takes time to get evidence back from the lab, it takes time to completely sift through a person’s alibi to ensure that something hasn’t been missed.
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I wonder if they had verifiable alibis tho. Like working, ring camera shows they were at home. With that said, a good alibi could be getting home on your ring camera, slipping out your back door undetected on your bike or something
 
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TravelingCircusof5 said:
Absolutely, yes— this idea. I am wondering too. The combination of one family saying the daughter complained of having a stalker and another family saying Dad just changed Xana’s locks leads me to think something creepy was happening.

it could be something vague, (the feeling someone has been in your room or is watching you), to something off being left/ found inside the home. Or a creepy person from property management coming to ‘fix the kitchen plumbing’, but lingering, loitering and making them feel uncomfortable. Could be phone calls like ‘I’m watching you’. Or it could be a roommate or a roommate’s boyfriend or friend who they let in frequently is creeping the others out or is a kleptomaniac . It could be as simple and innocent as one girl too frequently helping herself to another’s clothes and shoes without permission, but SOMEthing wierd was going on to make at LEAST two of the girls feel unsafe, and someone alive knows what it is.
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Yes-behavior of victims changed? Is this what SG was referring to ?
 
drmrgrl said:
I agree. A thought occurred to me that perhaps LE are staging a sort of cat and mouse game and using the media to do so-so as to keep a possible suspect off balance IMO….meaning the statements to the public and press are being manipulated…This leads me to believe that LE has someone in mind and perhaps they are waiting for this person to come forward.
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Or LE is getting all their ducks in a row before making an arrest and the conflicting statements are meant as a distraction for the perp and the general public. Look!!! Squirrel!!!

I don't think the perp in a quadruple murder is going to voluntarily come forward. MOO.
 
BrownRice said:
My response wasn’t being unkind. We are at the point where there will be literally hundreds of pages that have nothing to do with anything. And here I am contributing to it too. :) We delve into every little item, because we don’t have much to go on or new facts. Most of them are irrelevant tho.
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I know - neither was mine. It was a joke

I agree it can be really frustrating

but often WS threads are basically a ton of people having parallel conversations most of which we might not be personally interested in or we think have been rehashed.
plus, tbh, when threads are moving so quickly, we're never gonna read all the posts anyway, have to roll & scroll some of the posts.

ps same ;) I just contributed to irrelevant post quantity! Ha
 
TravelingCircusof5 said:
Absolutely, yes— this idea. I am wondering too. The combination of one family saying the daughter complained of having a stalker and another family saying Dad just changed Xana’s locks leads me to think something creepy was happening.

it could be something vague, (the feeling someone has been in your room or is watching you), to something off being left/ found inside the home. Or a creepy person from property management coming to ‘fix the kitchen plumbing’, but lingering, loitering and making them feel uncomfortable. Could be phone calls like ‘I’m watching you’. Or it could be a roommate or a roommate’s boyfriend or friend who they let in frequently is creeping the others out or is a kleptomaniac . It could be as
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Excellent suggestions: well thought through and explained in a logic way. 2 girls fell unsafe prior to attacks, interesting. It could be that one shared with the other her concerns and it reactive actions were taken as a precauces but it could be something else. Perhaps E siblings could elaborate whether X and E were worried and shared observations about strange things happening?
 
TravelingCircusof5 said:
Absolutely, yes— this idea. I am wondering too. The combination of one family saying the daughter complained of having a stalker and another family saying Dad just changed Xana’s locks leads me to think something creepy was happening.

it could be something vague, (the feeling someone has been in your room or is watching you), to something off being left/ found inside the home. Or a creepy person from property management coming to ‘fix the kitchen plumbing’, but lingering, loitering and making them feel uncomfortable. Could be phone calls like ‘I’m watching you’. Or it could be a roommate or a roommate’s boyfriend or friend who they let in frequently is creeping the others out or is a kleptomaniac . It could be as simple and innocent as one girl too frequently helping herself to another’s clothes and shoes without permission, but SOMEthing wierd was going on to make at LEAST two of the girls feel unsafe, and someone alive knows what it is.
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Yes, yes and yes.This was a creepy killing. That would make sense IMO
 
DizzyB said:
I’ve been surprised at how quickly each possibility has been publicly cleared in this. Sure, we can say it’s some sort of mind game by LE but I’m not buying that at all. I don’t think the sophistication to go that route is there, and honestly with so many of the officials giving interviews and statements I don’t think they’re doing that.

Do you clear an individual if you believe that they are not the killer, but they have knowledge of what may have happened that night? Are you a witness, a killer, or cleared? Alibis are funny things. Just like it takes time to get evidence back from the lab, it takes time to completely sift through a person’s alibi to ensure that something hasn’t been missed.
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Nobody has been officially cleared afaik.
media use that word. LE ( in the statements at their site) use caveats ' at this time' and ' we do not believe X...'
( or some wording like that ' at this stage in the investigation ' etc )

but I agree with your general point.
can I ask is this normal for LE to publicly list people they say they're 'not interested in at this time' ?
 
My best guess is that this is similar to the Virginia Tech shooting and Elliot Rodger Isla Vista shooting.

A misfit loner type with history of depression and other psychological problems acting out.

That's where the confusion over whether the house or people were "targeted" comes from.
He probably just went for any house of female students and picked this for some reason.

Elliott Rodger targeted a sorority cos they were the "hottest in UCL", not any particular individual. It was for what they represented.

Maybe this was a party house of cool kids.
Social isolation and resentment are powerful forces if acted upon the wrong person. There's some adage about "if you're rejected by the village, you'll burn it down".

In contrast to other spree killers, this guy didn't want to get caught or commit suicide after. Hence why he did it at night and with a knife.
He wanted to get away with it and enjoy the aftermath.
 
OrangeRhyme said:
My best guess is that this is similar to the Virginia Tech shooting and Elliot Rodger Isla Vista shooting.

A misfit loner type with history of depression and other psychological problems acting out.

That's where the confusion over whether the house or people were "targeted" comes from.
He probably just went for any house of female students and picked this for some reason.

Elliott Rodger targeted a sorority cos they were the "hottest in UCL", not any particular individual. It was for what they represented.

Maybe this was a party house of cool kids.
Social isolation and resentment are powerful forces if acted upon the wrong person. There's some adage about "if you're rejected by the village, you'll burn it down".

In contrast to other spree killers, this guy didn't want to get caught or commit suicide after. Hence why he did it at night and with a knife.
He wanted to get away with it and enjoy the aftermath.
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"The child who isn't embraced by the village will burn it down to feel it's warmth".

He probably picked this Saturday as he could go home for two weeks after for holidays to lay low.
This gave him a legitimate reason to leave town and go home for two weeks.
Brought bag of bloody clothes and weapon with him home and disposed of it somewhere in his home town.

Maybe he was monitoring their socials and knew they'd be all out drinking.

He might only share a tenuous connection to one of the victims, eg he was in one of their classes and has been cyber stalking them since.

Maybe followed them home once to see where they lived and scoped out the house a few times. Found that the kitchen sliding door was easy to open or often unlocked.
 
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layer said:
Actually, X's father went there just the weekend before the murders to "fix" a door lock for her. It's not clear if it was replaced or repaired or if it was her bedroom door or not. But there are photos of door knobs/locks that are not the former keycode locks.If you scroll to the 8:11 mark here you can see them:
Mother of slain Idaho student speaks for the first time
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thanks for that

here's the related clip from NN


very interesting to also hear in that clip that Entin went back to the Goncalves family to clarify the previous ' K had a stalker' interview and no, the G family do NOT know that K had a stalker ( goes back to what we said the other day about assumptions being reported as facts)
 
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OrangeRhyme said:
"The child who isn't embraced by the village will burn it down to feel it's warmth".

He probably picked this Saturday as he could go home for two weeks after for holidays to lay low.
This gave him a legitimate reason to leave town and go home for two weeks.
Brought bag of bloody clothes and weapon with him home and disposed of it somewhere in his home town.

Maybe he was monitoring their socials and knew they'd be all out drinking.

He might only share a tenuous connection to one of the victims, eg he was in one of their classes and has been cyber stalking them since.

Maybe followed them home once to see where they lived and scoped out the house a few times. Found that the kitchen sliding door was easy to open or often unlocked.
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He probably wore a ski mask, hoodie, dark clothes, gloves etc so that's maybe all the FBI have is a dark figure on video footage walking towards the house.

They don't know where he came from or where he went after. Because of the timing everyone has an alibi "I was asleep alone in bed". He left his phone at home so no phone data places him at scene of crime.

If I'm correct, it will be a difficult case to solve.

No eye witness, no DNA, no phone data.
 
IceCreamSundae said:
I find it interesting that the Goncalves family thinks individuals were “cleared” too hastily (excluding JD who they continue to support).
https://twitter.com/x/status/1598895377318834177
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to me, this feels irresponsible, to say this publicly to the reporter

it's refocussing attention on ' two ' but then adding some contradictory caveats of ' we don't want to re-victimise' the two

what do other people feel?
Brian Entin's show also will know that airing this clip also adds fuel to rumour-mills


ps noticing that Steve replies ' she had a really strong alibi'

list of individuals on the MPD site


"At this time in the investigation, detectives do not believe the following are involved in this crime:
  • Two surviving roommates,
  • Male in the Grub Truck surveillance video,
  • Private party driver who took Kaylee and Madison home on November 13th,
  • The male Kaylee and Madison called numerous times during the early morning hours of
    November 13th, or
  • Any individual at the residence when 911 was called"
 
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