ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 19

[Shamrock1]

One Thing About Having A poi if Let’s Say they did, An innocent person Is going to bend over backwards and cooperate, While someone guilty Will not totally co operate and Be evasive unsure about answering certain things , this might be the phase LE is in right now, I’ve watched enough of dateline and 48 hours((BTW both excellent shows)) To know sometimes it takes several interviews to Nail Someone… So We don’t know much right now And neither do The victims families, but Let’s hope LE is further along in this than We Know, For The Victims Families Sake…JMO

An innocent person, properly counseled by even a brand-new attorney, would do no such thing under most circumstances. “Well, if you were truly innocent you’d do X” is a very common LE tactic. There’s a reason why we have a right to remain silent, and *no one* is obligated to “just help me clear this up” absent court order. JMO.

 

[Shamrock1]

LE probably told the survivors not to talk. Survivors are traumatized and very fearful. The survivors’ families are mostly concerned about their wellbeing. Logical. MOO.

Survivors may have sought legal counsel. The first advice would have been to remain silent and the second to deactivate (not delete) social media IMO. (LE can’t *order* anyone to remain silent, as a side note).

 

[Bordeaux]

An innocent person, properly counseled by even a brand-new attorney, would do no such thing under most circumstances. “Well, if you were truly innocent you’d do X” is a very common LE tactic. There’s a reason why we have a right to remain silent, and *no one* is obligated to “just help me clear this up” absent court order. JMO.

Tough situation. Can you imagine being an innocent neighbor, colleague, or a person who was romantically interested in one of the victims, and having police wanting to question you? You want to help but… Yikes!

 

[shane13]

There are perpetrators who get aroused by the sight of the blood. The knife provides better control over how much blood gets drawn and for long the victim will stay alive. The last part is also why many sadistic killers prefer the knife over the gun, as the latter is a fast way of killing, without much ability to prolong the agony.

Yes that's what I was saying for my #2 reason above. [I didn't wan t to be too graphic. Thank you for elaborating.]

 

[sunshineray]

afaik, the MPD statements have never changed - they never used the word ' cleared'
they used the language as you can see at that MPD link I just shared

Yes but the language used led all to believe cleared was what they meant. IMO

 

[shane13]

Tough situation. Can you imagine being an innocent neighbor, colleague, or a person who was romantically interested in one of the victims, and having police wanting to question you? You want to help but… Yikes!

Yes. And e know e.g., from Innocence Project [among other things] there are some or many who get wrongfully charged and convicted.

 

[Shamrock1]

Tough situation. Can you imagine being an innocent neighbor, colleague, or a person who was romantically interested in one of the victims, and having police wanting to question you? You want to help but… Yikes!

The prudent thing is to retain counsel immediately. I know that runs contrary to virtually every Law & Order episode.

 

[rsd1200]

I have tried to follow this case but at this juncture, there is just nothing to go on. I spent six years on a case that was sealed. So, much time wasted going in circles. Hope to re-visit when more is known.

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes but the language used led all to believe cleared was what they meant. IMO

100% agree

but, going forward, if one of the people on MPD becomes ' uncleared' ( as can happen in course of an investigation as evidence evolves) , guess who will get the blame for ' clearing ' them ?

 

[autumnal]

Losing sleep on this one, guys. Pretty sure I'm not alone on that. Especially when I lay here at night trying to get to sleep, and I think of just how vulnerable we are. How vulnerable they were.

 

[shane13]

On that interview with Entin where SG is saying he thinks two were cleared too quickly, it could be any of the people the police said were ruled out at that time, but I am leaning toward thinking he is not happy that the 2 roommates who haven’t given him a specific alibi. It sounds like he wants to hear what it is so he’s now publicly trying to put pressure on them to tell him. I disagree with him. I’m sure that LE has told these people don’t say what your alibi is. By saying that these folks are ruled out at this time, it leaves the door open that they may not be in the future. I’m sure that the police want to keep it that way because they still are out there trying to hunt for the real killer. I would find it really shocking if the survivors had anything to do with this. I mean, crazier things have happened, but whether it was by them or at their direction, I would just absolutely be gobsmacked, least of which is that, them not being attacked would have people questioning them in the first place.

Makes no sense IMO. Let me add, by them containing to go on tv and talk giving tidbits here and there, I’m sure that is also making anyone leery of telling them anything specific because they might announce it.

Somehow I believe that SG has in mind others than the 2 housemates. MOO. Highly likely killing skillfully 4 people likely was a male or males, but not impossible for 1 or 2 females.

 

[Missyrocks5]

On SG’s interview, I would also argue it the other way. I absolutely can see his side and his frustration if, maybe with the inference is that I guess we don’t really talk about much here, although there are certainly many posts I have not read, who did the surviving roommates have over to the house that night? Is this really at the core of why they won’t release the 911 call and the survivors are apparently not saying anything specific nor are they giving any interviews etc.? I’m sure they’ve been told by lawyers not to, but they probably have been by law-enforcement also. If they had visitors at the house that night, I would assume that could be the biggest suspects, am I wrong in my thoughts on that? We’ve been looking all over the place, but maybe it is Occam’s razor- someone in that house (including any of the victims) had visitors over that night and that’s who it is.

 

[autumnal]

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but is it possible perp had some sort of substance on a rag or something to incapacitate the victims right away?

 

[Missyrocks5]

Somehow I believe that SG has in mind others than the 2 housemates. MOO. Highly likely killing skillfully 4 people likely was a male or males, but not impossible for 1 or 2 females.

Agree. I just added another post saying that it could be someone that I don’t think is really discussed here – a person or persons who are invited to the home that night. Maybe by the surviving roommates’ friends. Could even be at the invitation from one the victims. But if there were other people in the house that night, that’s who it could be and maybe that’s the alibi he’s upset about. Or maybe he even feels that the survivors are not saying as much as they could because they had friends/boyfriends over that night. That’s certainly one theory that could make sense. But I would assume that the police have spoken with whoever was at the house and interviewed them.

However, I always want to know what it takes to get probable cause to search someone‘s apt and car. Maybe they’re trying to disprove an alibi so that, if there were any visitors at the home that night, LE could search and see if there is any DNA at their house or car. I don’t know what it takes to establish probable cause in order to be able to do that. The other thing is maybe getting back to what the father said, it is possible that the surviving roommates were told by Attorneys to not give any information at all. Other than what was on the 911 call. And maybe he’s frustrated about that. There are a lot of ways to interpret what he said.

 

[Minordetails]

Their efforts are giving me hope this case will soon be solved. I think they have a pretty strong hunch who the perp is, have it narrowed down to one or two POIs. I'd love to know what they know.

I have only followed 3 cases on Websleuths in the past 5 years and I’ve noticed that approximately three weeks into an unsolved mystery, someone will inevitably post a ‘positive vibe’ message about LE being ‘close’ to an arrest.

2018 - Mollie Tibbetts (LE had no suspect 3 weeks in)

2018 - Jayme Closs (LE had no suspect 3 weeks in)

2020 - Susan Morphew (LE had a suspect 3 weeks in, but no substantial evidence)

 

[cottonweaver]

On SG’s interview, I would also argue it the other way. I absolutely can see his side and his frustration if, maybe with the inference is that I guess we don’t really talk about much here, although there are certainly many posts I have not read, who did the surviving roommates have over to the house that night? Is this really at the core of why they won’t release the 911 call and the survivors are apparently not saying anything specific nor are they giving any interviews etc.? I’m sure they’ve been told by lawyers not to, but they probably have been by law-enforcement also. If they had visitors at the house that night, I would assume that could be the biggest suspects, am I wrong in my thoughts on that? We’ve been looking all over the place, but maybe it is Occam’s razor- someone in that house (including any of the victims) had visitors over that night and that’s who it is.

yes could be boyfriends who stayed over for a few hours

but I'm still not 100% on who the Goncalves are trying to hint at ( whether 2 survivors or somebody else who LE ' cleared too fast)

could they be referring to these people?
'

• Any individual at the residence when 911 was called. https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24757/11-27-2022-Moscow-Homicide-Update

( because I wasn't following WS threads 1-15, IDK how quickly this line was added to the MPD site)

 

[Cryptic]

Sorry for getting graphic! But I assumed that the knife went in so deep that the flange that stops your hand from sliding down hit the skin leavening an outline of it. jfif

I think you could well be right.

Its a horrible thought. But... sometimes horrible thoughts need to be explored. This is one of those times.

The possibility that the cross guard left imprints could show the overwhelming force of the attack.

In addition to the possibility of locked bed room doors (even if the locks were token and largely symbolic, they would still need to be kicked or shouldered in), the victims look physically fit. Once alerted, I dont think they would be easy victims.

 

[shane13]

There could be many reasons for killing with a knife vs a gun besides the age factor. Including
1. Preferred kill method due to training and/or previous use.
2. He may even have had a gun with him as backup if needed, but preferred the knife as he gets off on a more personal and torturous kill.

I could add a few more reasons.
3. had both with him and gun jammed
4. Had in mind to kill them all but sound of gun shots would wake others.
5. Sound would also have alerted neighbors there, so escape could be more problematic.

Sadly I think reasons 4 and 5 among the 5 I've listed so far are the main, related reasons.

All along I've thought there is a chance here that while it's likely a slighted possibly incel type, this could have been someone with great skills such as military, intel agency , special ops, martial arts. This killing of 4 people and escape exhibited great skill and confidence. .
All MOO.

 

[shane13]

Agree. I just added another post saying that it could be someone that I don’t think is really discussed here – a person or persons who are invited to the home that night. Maybe by the surviving roommates’ friends. Could even be at the invitation from one the victims. But if there were other people in the house that night, that’s who it could be and maybe that’s the alibi he’s upset about. Or maybe he even feels that the survivors are not saying as much as they could because they had friends/boyfriends over that night. That’s certainly one theory that could make sense. But I would assume that the police have spoken with whoever was at the house and interviewed them.

However, I always want to know what it takes to get probable cause to search someone‘s apt and car. Maybe they’re trying to disprove an alibi so that, if there were any visitors at the home that night, LE could search and see if there is any DNA at their house or car. I don’t know what it takes to establish probable cause in order to be able to do that. The other thing is maybe getting back to what the father said, it is possible that the surviving roommates were told by Attorneys to not give any information at all. Other than what was on the 911 call. And maybe he’s frustrated about that. There are a lot of ways to interpret what he said.

Good points.

 

[Missyrocks5]

yes could be boyfriends who stayed over for a few hours

but I'm still not 100% on who the Goncalves are trying to hint at ( whether 2 survivors or somebody else who LE ' cleared too fast)

could they be referring to these people?
'

• Any individual at the residence when 911 was called. https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24757/11-27-2022-Moscow-Homicide-Update

( because I wasn't following WS threads 1-15, IDK how quickly this line was added to the MPD site)

Really good catch. I agree, you really could argue this anyway as to what he was saying, but you make a great point. And that made me start thinking about what I just posted. Do we know for a fact that there weren’t any other people staying over that house that night? Did any of the surviving roommates have a boyfriend who stayed that night? Is that a whole angle that we’re not exploring? And is that who was on the 911 call that they’re not releasing? How we all been taking it to literally that those were the only six people in the home that night? I’m starting to think you yes. I think there were other people at the home that night at minimum just visiting and maybe who left, and maybe even one of those girls or both of them had boyfriends who stayed over as well. That would really be quite a development