ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 21

[Sister Golden Hair]

Also, they have asked for any video from the hours of 3am to 6am in vey specific areas. THIS is extremely telling. imo. They are telling us they have a suspect with an alibi, and they want to possibly disprove the alibi. imo.

or perhaps because they know that the killings were committed during that time, and the area they're requesting puts a four corner limit on where the killer must cross to gain access to the house and / or get away, so they're looking for any all movement and will move in or out from there. if you look at the map, you'll see that the borders are the only ways in and out. jmo

 

[kittythehare]

I don't necessarily think it's a bad idea, but if I were a student there trying to calm my fears, I think it would trigger them every time I saw one of the posters. JMO.

Well if a killer is on the loose I'd prefer to be afraid and aware than heedless and in denial.
And a killer is on the loose, in fact.

 

[seasideForest]

Does anyone wonder if the University tries to downplay this and a new student gets injured by this same person for whatever reason, would the University (or even the city) be liable?

I cannot imagine how that could be legally possible. But I'm not a lawyer so I guess we have to wait till somebody in a legal profession answers.

 

[NuttMegg]

I'm scared of this murder and I'm over 1,500 away. Can't imagine putting posters up will do any good in Moscow. It's got to what everyone there is thinking about already Let LE do their job they say they are painting a picture which takes time could take months to paint a picture.

i doubt that there is anyone in that area plus WSU, to Seattle and most of the 2 states.who isn't aware of the murders, and the faces of the victims, waste of time putting up posters imo. Now if it were a wanted poster with sketch or description, that's different.

 

[Sandy007]

One reason that I think keeps being mentioned here on the threads against putting up posters with REWARD is that the possibility of getting money for a tip will inspire people who have nothing to do with the crime to contact LE with made-up information. This just makes more work for LE and doesn't lead to anything useful. But idk why no posters at all.

I did not mention REWARD, in fact it did not cross my mind that poster will mention it.

 

[r3d-ros3]

Just a thought related to SG's recent interview on Fox: he directly mentions the University being harmed (implied: its image, its ability to recruit new students and retain current ones). He says:

"... The communication is not the same as the boots on ground. All the officers that are out on the streets, those guys are working their tails off, but there’s a different person doing the communication, and that guy’s sitting with the lawyer, and that guy’s sitting there telling him, “You know, you gotta protect things that are beyond the case, like the town and the community, and the–the college itself.” Those don’t matter as much to me. I mean, I definitely don’t wanna hurt them, but, um, I have an agenda, and I think it’s pretty clear. It’s these two girls, and, uh, that’s what I’m working for, and I’m not gonna let that story fall apart just because they don’t want wanted posters on their next rush of students that come into town." (link to source)

It is interesting to step back a little from the investigation and think more broadly about how LE is handling this case because of the UI -- higher ed is a business, among other things, and this event is extremely harmful for its ability to continue making a profit. It's going to be very, very bad if they do not have a suspect in custody before the spring semester begins, IMO. All this is to say that I think LE is making certain choices in the interest of protecting Moscow's premier institution -- this can explain why they continue to push the idea that this was a "targeted" crime in some way, and their decision to quickly revoke the shelter in place that went out briefly after the victims were discovered.

It's a long shot, but there is some (justified) speculation about the house being targeted for its association with UI's Greek life and community -- in that case, it is as much an attack against the victims and the Greek community in Moscow as it is against the university itself. I'm definitely not suggesting that the best interest of the university trumps justice for the victims and their families (from my perspective or from LE's), but I think this context is absolutely important to understanding the investigation and even the potential motive(s) of the perp. All MOO.

 

[SUSAN ANN]

I cannot imagine how that could be legally possible. But I'm not a lawyer so I guess we have to wait till somebody in a legal profession answers.

With all the lawsuits out there, nowadays, I can believe it, wouldn’t surprise me. This country is so litigious.

 

[citizen_sleuth]

Does anyone wonder if the University tries to downplay this and a new student gets injured by this same person for whatever reason, would the University (or even the city) be liable? It's seems like a really bad idea to try and sweep this under the rug to me.

Three years ago, when I was a junior in college, a freshman was stabbed to death near campus. Because it happened in a public area and not on-campus, there was nothing the university realistically could have done to prevent it and therefore they weren’t liable. The only real impact the murder had on the university was allowing students flexibility to defer final exams until the following semester and making more counseling resources available for those affected. Since the victims in this case were murdered in an off-campus residence, there’s nothing the university can be faulted for. JMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Why not putting up posters? Like if you have any information or you were in the area before or on 13th and noticed something or someone acting unusually, watching 1122 or behaving suspiciously, please contact that and that numbers?

It will give some purpose, something to do to families.

Can someone explain why that may be a bad idea?

Because many businesses have a particular aesthetic and if one person can post a poster (about a crime or anything else), others will want to do the same. For that reason, some businesses have a bulletin board inside the business (if it's large enough). If it's a food business, seating people at a window (so that they get a view outside) is obscured by anxiety-producing notices of crime.

Further, who polices the posters? What if the posters veer into suggesting a particular sort of person is being looked for - because the family thinks that's right? I can think of more reasons.

Target stores where I live used to have a community bulletin board, many years ago, but it became impossible to police/vet and some of it was revenge-oriented relationship stuff (people are weird).

If the police want to do it, they would likely use wording such as what you suggest - but police often do not want casual tips. People with real information contact the police as a matter of course and are persistent. They already have what, 1200 "leads" from phone calls? All of which will likely be vetted - creating a massive workload for what is likely to be a small payoff.

At any rate, I doubt there's a single person in that region who doesn't know about this crime and everyone knows how to call a hotline.

 

[layer]

That language has been in every Press Release under the Additional Information section since the first one on November 19.

ETA: Correction
On the first one, Nov 19, there was no official Additional Information section yet, and the language was very slightly different. Currently, there are no suspects in custody, and the weapon has not been found.

As much as I hate to reply to myself, although I do talk to myself all the time...

I'm thinking that this slight change in language reflects the possibility that they have acquired evidence that more than one weapon was used. By the next Press Release, on Nov 20, the Additional Information section had been added, and the language was changed to what it remains today. Currently, no suspects are in custody, and no weapon has been located.

Maybe they just tightened it up, or maybe they are giving us a hint?

 

[seasideForest]

I did not mention REWARD, in fact it did not cross my mind that poster will mention it.

I know you didn't but it has come up a lot so I wasn't sure whether you meant a poster with Reward Offered or not. If you like, I can delete my post before it derails the thread? Pls let me know.

 

[Snoop Sister]

He paid the bill means SG believes he paid dearly with the life of his daughter and why he so badly wants to speak out (and probably asked not to share certain details).

I also suspect that one victim had more stab wounds than the other (SG's statement the means don't match).

The family is clearly upset they are not being updated with every detail but this is a perfect example of why LE does not generally share details with family. Family members are too vulnerable -- they're in shock.

More important is that investigations evolve, it's not like TV. It's one thing to identify the suspect but another to successfully prosecute them. Investigators are charged with keeping things under wrap and not risking the evidence being ruled inadmissible because it was blasted on MSM before the suspect was apprehended and charged. MOO

ETA: Imo, SG was having an emotional moment here and his statement about going upstairs was in reference to the chain of command in the investigation, and not literally the physical stairs.

Idaho college murders: Father of student speaks out | Fox News Video

Steve Goncalves, father of slain University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves joins 'Fox & Friends' to discuss the investigation into the University of Idaho murders and talks about the life of his daughter.

www.foxnews.com

in this video, he states that the murderer did not have to go upstairs.

 

[mickey2942]

We really don't know what would be the "right way" to act if one of our children was killed in such a macabre manner. I could understand anger and frustration.

I am glad to have never been involved in a situation like this, but I know this much, Christmas is going to be heartbreaking for all of these families involved.

 

[10ofRods]

I did not mention REWARD, in fact it did not cross my mind that poster will mention it.

And yet, if these posters are produced by private citizens, they can say anything they want. I can see how business (and LE) would discourage it. Missing person's posters have certain information (that has gone into police records first, usually) but this crime is in the past. Asking for someone to call the hotline if they witnessed "something suspicious" is just going to get people who haven't already had a concern to call, possibly with information from the wrong day or time, because people's memories are like that.

Whereas, people who remembered unusual behavior the very next day have likely already called. At some point, police might be more specific about what info they are seeking - but I think they are on the trail and don't need random people tying up the hotline.

 

[bettyboop]

Postal Service Confirms Photographing All U.S. Mail (Published 2013)​

The Postal Service takes a picture of every letter and package mailed in the United States and will give a photo to a requesting law enforcement agency, the postmaster general confirmed.

www.nytimes.com

The post office will now email you photos of your mail before it's delivered​

Informed Delivery is a service from the United States Postal Service that scans the outside of your mail and shows you the images each morning before the mail is actually delivered. While you still won't be able to see the inside of your mail until it arrives, it should be helpful to know if an...

techcrunch.com

@britinsussex , and everyone else. I have this service and I think it's wonderful!! I highly recommend anyone who is able , get it!!
JMO MOO

 

[Sandy007]

I cannot imagine how that could be legally possible. But I'm not a lawyer so I guess we have to wait till somebody in a legal profession answers.

In essence, a university has a general duty of care at common law: to deliver its educational and pastoral services to the standard of the ordinarily competent institution, and, in carrying out its services and functions, to act reasonably to protect the health, safety and welfare of its students. Accussasions of lack of duty of care could be very harmful to any institution or business.

Saying that, I do not know if the university could be liable, unless it has been proved withiut reasonable doubt, that the adminisrration knew who was the perpetrator and did not cooperate as they may had to with LE.

But it is unlikely that would be the case, sounds hardly to believe.

 

[mickey2942]

I don't know the specific mail rules for this house, but most students living in off campus housing are encouraged to get their own PO boxes and use that for important mail. Community houses, with people coming and going, mail gets misplaced. Most renters get PO boxes.

 

[kittythehare]

They could print posters and ask volunteers to give them to passersby.

They could also ask locals, friends to put posters on their car windows, they could do same in other towns in the area, what LE said? within 3 hrs drive.

Any other ideas?

Shame i am not close, would love to help.

It's not strictly LE job to contain the relatives emotions but it's not black and white either and I've seen them do a superb job on both on these pages.

He's just grasping now, maybe at shadows, maybe it's real.
I don't believe he could stop if he wanted .
But I think they can make this better for him without compromising the investigation.
<modsnip>

 

[Tillicum]

I think if a family member started a blog, it could help them feel like they're doing something to keep the case in the public eye.

 

[Snoop Sister]

There were questions in the last thread about targeting. Here is the FBI's definition of targeting in one of their handbooks (page 41) via link:

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/making-prevention-a-reality.pdf

Note that targeting does not necessarily mean a specific victim or victims and can be due to a variety of offender explanations. I have also included an attached image of the page.

Excellent read. Thank you for posting!