ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 21

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I personally do not think that SG knows a whole lot more information than we do, despite being K's father.

That being said, it is common in cases like these that LE would tactfully release misinformation; and it is my belief/opinion that SG is pinpointing a "suspect" based off of a hunch knowing as such.
My assumption as well. He appears frustrated at the firsthand lack of clarity from local government municipalities, as well as being told something one day, only to be told (from the news) something that counteracts what he heard the previous day. He’s clarified multiple times that it’s basically his opinion of what he says.

He’s likely zeroed in on a certain suspect (whether guilty or not) for a multitude of reasons: K’s phone data, the belief someone was “cleared too early”, possibility K was targeted, rumors, etc.
 
Yeah I was just thinking of this. I know it's all speculation, me just tossing things around in my head. I heard about this murder back when it happened but didn't read about it because I was preparing for Thanksgiving. However today for some reason I snapped awake at 5am to research it. I saw dog mentioned and I know police already said it wasn't connected but the whole Moscow cult thing stuck in my head. Supposedly they own some of the college properties. Does anyone know who owns 2211 king street? I saw on the rental listing "no dogs allowed" but KG had a dog on-site. A landlord would have all keys and codes, yet one of the girls dads changed her locks..maybe because a landlord gave her a creepy vibe?
If this cult is in tight with LE maybe that's why KG dad said many people were eliminated as suspects too quickly?
Does the same landlord also own the property where the skinned dog lived?
A misogynist cult exists in this little town? So many questions! A disgruntled landlord mad about dogs on his property, thinking the girls were lesbians, maybe he was rejected by one of them? Does anyone know who owns the property?


A poster did some research on here and found that the owner lives in colorado and owns several properties in that area near 1122. Aside from that, it's a property management company that is acting as a buffer between the tenants and landlord. If there was any issue with the dog, the property management company would have handled that, not the landlord.
 
I'm really not sure why some people are fixated on the university's relationship to this tragedy. Personally, I haven't seen or heard anything that leads me to believe UofI did not respond appropriately. In fact, I think they are handling the situation remarkably well.

All of the victims were adults residing in a house rented from a private landlord. Yes, Moscow is a college town, but that doesn't mean the college is responsible for everything that goes on there. Based on my experience in college, many students choose to live off-campus because they don't want to be subject to the the university's rules (such as prohibiting underage students from possessing alcohol).

There is no question the university has been affected by this crime––four of its students were brutally murdered, and many others have been left to cope with the tragic loss of their friends. The university announced early on that they would make counselors available to speak with students. But IMO, UofI does not bear any responsibility for the crime itself.

The murders did not happen on university property. It has not been alleged that anyone employed by the university was involved in the murders. Other than the victims being enrolled at UofI and the murders taking place in the same town, I fail to see how the university could possibly be implicated in any way.

JMO.
 
In civil cases, the burden of proof would be preponderance of the evidence (preponderance of the evidence), not reasonable doubt, and I suspect there will be lawsuits.

In fact, this Stanford case will stir some bigger questions, and I predict (as you've noted) duty, breach, cause and harm will rear its head in the Idaho case as well:

Interesting! That makes legal suit(s) way too likely, perhaps parents should seek legal advice.

After reading the information from the links you kindly provided (A big thank you), it seems that the outcome of such lawsuits depends on findings of the investigation, but not necessarily is limited by these findings. Correct?
 
To me, the difference is that it was Stanford employees who (the suit claims) are responsible for this pressure on this student.

AFAIK, there are no allegation that either university property or employees are involved in the Idaho Four murders, whereas in the Stanford case, facilities at Stanford were the sites of the disciplinary proceedings and university managers were involved in it. Lots of differences. I'm guessing the parents in the Stanford case will get a judgment in their favor or settle out of court (and personally believe that to be just).

agreed.
big differences. I just think the somehow there will be lawsuits, and even if UofI is only brought in on the periphery, I think they'll find a way. jmo based on basic guess/odds in my favor.
 
I transcribed that exact part of the interview because we were discussing it last night. Here’s what SG said about the “means” of Kaylee and Maddie’s being different (SG sort of goes off topic talking about his perceived lack of LE communication):

LJ tees up the next question (*This is the transcribed direct exchange):

LJ: “I had the opportunity to speak with some of my sources and I have been told there are differences in the way that the victims were killed. Some were more severe than the ‘other’. And this week, we heard ‘the target attack’ walk-back, and reverse it back to being a target attack — what can you tell us about the targeted attack”?

Mom of Kaylee: “Umm, they have told us it that was targeted, and but they told us they can’t tell who. We asked specifically. And they said, ‘We’ll try to get that information to you’ and they got back to us a day or so later and said, ‘We’re sorry, we can’t give you that information’ but, then a day later, we saw on the news that it was not targeted, or they think the whole house was targeted.”

SG: “I’ll cut to the chase, their means of death don’t match.”

LJ: “Maddie’s and Kaylee’s… Cause of death, it does not match based on the autopsy report?”

SG: “They don’t match.”

LJ: “It would indicate one of them may have been targeted?”

SG: “He doesn’t have to go up the steps! Let’s stop playing games! Guys! I need somebody to step up and be an alpha, be somebody to be a leader! Don’t make me do it! I don’t wanna do it! He doesn’t have to go up those steps. They’re mad. Their, their points of damage don’t match. I’m just gonna say it... Wasn’t leaked to me, I earned that. I payed for that funeral. I paid for that. It’s my right! You ain’t takin’ that from me!

Mom: “Calm down.”

SG: “If you don’t wanna say nothing, that’s your bed... But don’t say I’m leakin’ anything, I paid that bill! I sent my daughter to college to get an education, she came back in a box, and I can speak on that.”

Here’s the entire interview for complete context and I think it’s important to watch because he basically says the University is involved and is trying to suppress the media coverage and maybe that’s why there is mixed messaging because the University still wants prospective students to enroll and that would be hard if LE was blasting out there is a maniac on the the loose. (I paraphrased that because that’s what I understood also from the interview.)


I’m interested in your thoughts.
It almost sounds like he's saying he thinks there are 2 males involved that were angry. And they weren't angry at K & M. And he's wanting one to step up and be the alpha and confess. JMO
 
I'm really not sure why some people are fixated on the university's relationship to this tragedy. Personally, I haven't seen or heard anything that leads me to believe UofI did not respond appropriately. In fact, I think they are handling the situation remarkably well.

All of the victims were adults residing in a house rented from a private landlord. Yes, Moscow is a college town, but that doesn't mean the college is responsible for everything that goes on there. Based on my experience in college, many students choose to live off-campus because they don't want to be subject to the the university's rules (such as prohibiting underage students from possessing alcohol).

There is no question the university has been affected by this crime––four of its students were brutally murdered, and many others have been left to cope with the tragic loss of their friends. The university announced early on that they would make counselors available to speak with students. But IMO, UofI does not bear any responsibility for the crime itself.

The murders did not happen on university property. It has not been alleged that anyone employed by the university was involved in the murders. Other than the victims being enrolled at UofI and the murders taking place in the same town, I fail to see how the university could possibly be implicated in any way.

JMO.
you're right. as for my guess, I'm just cynical, and the odds are in my favor. however, I'm guessing too soon and will take heed and snip it shut.
 
I've spent a professional lifetime pondering that question and would urge everyone to start with the classic book on what goes on in the mind of serial killers, by Dr Donald Lunde. It's called Murder and Madness.

There's also a chilling book, an autobiography (ghost written) about Jesperson, if anyone has the stomach for it.

This is not, so far, a serial killing, it's a mass murder. But some of the mental issues are the same and some of the diagnoses pondered by psychiatrists are the same.
I actually don’t think we can rule out a serial killer entirely because how do we know this is his first killing? I mean as it stands now, you are correct in labeling it a mass murder. However, we don’t really know. My bet is that it is a killer who has struck before. Time will tell… hopefully soon for everyone grieving this senseless crime. MOO
 
Interesting! That makes legal suit(s) way too likely, perhaps parents should seek legal advice.

After reading the information from the links you kindly provided (A big thank you), it seems that the outcome of such lawsuits depends on findings of the investigation, but not necessarily is limited by these findings. Correct?
I'm speaking way too soon and rolling the dice. I really should shut up and will. I do think there will be some civil suits to spring from this, and many parties may be brought in as related and here's why I would guess that: Empty chair (law) - Wikipedia
 
"... The communication is not the same as the boots on ground. All the officers that are out on the streets, those guys are working their tails off, but there’s a different person doing the communication, and that guy’s sitting with the lawyer, and that guy’s sitting there telling him, “You know, you gotta protect things that are beyond the case, like the town and the community, and the–the college itself.” Those don’t matter as much to me. I mean, I definitely don’t wanna hurt them, but, um, I have an agenda, and I think it’s pretty clear. It’s these two girls, and, uh, that’s what I’m working for, and I’m not gonna let that story fall apart just because they don’t want wanted posters on their next rush of students that come into town." (link to source)
BBM. Pretty telling.
 
It almost sounds like he's saying he thinks there are 2 males involved that were angry. And they weren't angry at K & M. And he's wanting one to step up and be the alpha and confess. JMO
Yes, SG was pretty flustered in the interview last night. He was sort of all over the place and I think probably was talking about 3 different topics in one sentence— and that happened a few times. It’s worth to watch in its entirety if you have the time. :)
 
So hire more people.

LE has a million dollar budget.

The University itself is very wealthy, and could easily afford to offer a hefty reward.

I personally do not like the kind of powerful influence the U. has upon this case and over the investigators.

JMHO
A million dollars is puppy food. Investigators are expensive, and time is precious.
 
Just to be fair, University of Idaho is not a for-profit. It's a public institution, mostly funded by the taxpayers of Idaho.
True but they also make money from merchandise licensing, athletic tickets etc. I know the University of Texas system, while being a state institution, makes a huge amount of money from athletics and merchandise, alumni contributions and endowments. I would hate to think how much my taxes would be if that system was "mostly funded by taxpayers".
 
To me, the difference is that it was Stanford employees who (the suit claims) are responsible for this pressure on this student.

AFAIK, there are no allegation that either university property or employees are involved in the Idaho Four murders, whereas in the Stanford case, facilities at Stanford were the sites of the disciplinary proceedings and university managers were involved in it. Lots of differences. I'm guessing the parents in the Stanford case will get a judgment in their favor or settle out of court (and personally believe that to be just).
Yes I think lawsuits with regard to hazing deaths are probably more relevant, hard for families to win. Previously some have suggested that the university might be trying to quiet things down. I think if they are actually doing that and if it is documented in any way, they are creating a much bigger liability risk for themselves, imo.
 
I’m in another state right now to take care of my elderly parents, and so have fallen far behind in the threads.

Just wanted to voice my opinion regarding Kaylee’s parents.

If it were my family, I would never stop until I died. I would never stop trying to find out what happened. I would never stop publicizing what I could, because as big as this story is now, it will ultimately fade from view if it becomes a cold case.

Nevertheless, I also believe that LE must keep info close to the vest. It’s really the only way they may possibly reel in the actual killer.

IMO, at this moment, for the families it’s the age-old tension between an unstoppable force and an immovable object. This conflict, IMO, can only be resolved if the murderer is both identified and brought to justice. Soon.

Just a quick response regarding Informed Postal Delivery.
I signed up for it when Covid hit NYC. My high-rise alone has 552 apartments, and the same mailman delivers to several similar buildings. Informed Delivery gave me the chance to avoid the communal mailroom until necessary, in the early Covid days. I recommend it.

JMO
 
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