ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 23

[newredtabby]

Could the killer have left the slider door open on the way in as way of easier access back out and less touch points? If they did go through slider door that is…they could've worn boot covers as well. Removed them after….or burned all their clothes, shoes etc. everything from head to toe.

Sure. In fact, it would have been the smart move to leave it open the entire time, in case they needed to get out in a hurry.

 

[Zella]

Can anyone explain why SG thinks the perp going upstairs does mean K or M were targeted? Maybe just in combination with the difference in brutality?

I don't think anyone can really explain that on his behalf, but I agree that he leaps to conclusions that are a possible explanation but also has tunnel vision and not all the facts. The fact remains there are a lot of reasons why one of them may have had more injuries--a struggle, a case of mistaken identity--and why the killer went up the stairs--wanting to be thorough, hearing something up there--and any conclusion SG has drawn has apparently only been with information he has on half the victims. I have said this repeatedly, but for all he knows, E and X sustained even more brutal injuries than K or M.

I feel for the guy, I really do, but I don't think his conclusions are rooted in enough information--<modsnip>

At the end of the day, he may well be right that his daughter was the target, but he could just as well be wrong. MOO

 

[Chelly]

Is anyone else getting the feeling that LE has delved pretty extensively into K & M and have come up with nothing and that's why X and E are now more of a priority?

I'm getting the feeling that it is MSM that is shifting its reporting focus to X and E.
There is just nothing new here.

 

[thatssoamy]

I don’t know if someone has brought up this point yet, but regarding K being targeted— SG implies that the perp going upstairs indicates one of the girls upstairs was targeted, but couldn’t it just be that the perp wanted them all dead? Ie, the household was targeted? In that case, he would also have to go upstairs, in order to get to them all. He might have just been scared away or otherwise deterred from going down to the first floor. Can anyone explain why SG thinks the perp going upstairs does mean K or M were targeted? Maybe just in combination with the difference in brutality?

Jmo but I think he's thinking because the girls downstairs weren't killed (in his head that means weren't a target) if they wanted to target x/e they only had to go to second floor and then leave, the fact they went upstairs mean the target was upstairs.

But like you said there could have been any reason why the 1st floor roomates never died (ie locked doors, killer was spooked etc)

 

[ArmChairDet]

My opinion only:
I am in agreement with those who believe that the murderer was/is local. Likely someone living close by. Someone who knew their way around the back ways and knew that at that hour on those pathways that he/she would not likely encounter anyone in the short distance that would be traveled. Someone who has demonstrated anger, violated personal friends, relatives, etc. Perhaps a neighbor who had grown infuriated with the noise, partying at all hours, jealous of their fun, their youth. So, the “residence” issue comes into play. Perceived exclusion. No doubt LE has some individual in mind. Don’t rule out a female.

I am not convinced the person had previous homicidal experience. But, no doubt has demonstrated strong ego ~~~ like, “I’m smarter than everyone, I’ll never get caught” attitude. No stealth murderer ever believes that they will get caught. The criminal mind is largely impervious to self-doubt. Thus, likely some criminal background.

I have confidence in LE. It’s just a matter of time.

I agree almost 100%. The only difference IMO is that LE will solve quickly. I believe that it will be some time before the perp commits a crime that needs DNA contributed, or there is a genealogy based DNA track.

 

[Trino]

My opinion only:
I am in agreement with those who believe that the murderer was/is local. Likely someone living close by. Someone who knew their way around the back ways and knew that at that hour on those pathways that he/she would not likely encounter anyone in the short distance that would be traveled. Someone who has demonstrated anger, violated personal friends, relatives, etc. Perhaps a neighbor who had grown infuriated with the noise, partying at all hours, jealous of their fun, their youth. So, the “residence” issue comes into play. Perceived exclusion. No doubt LE has some individual in mind. Don’t rule out a female.

I am not convinced the person had previous homicidal experience. But, no doubt has demonstrated strong ego ~~~ like, “I’m smarter than everyone, I’ll never get caught” attitude. No stealth murderer ever believes that they will get caught. The criminal mind is largely impervious to self-doubt. Thus, likely some criminal background.

I have confidence in LE. It’s just a matter of time.

May have been local, but most people are asleep between 2-4 am. Probably not a problem to sneak into a lot of places.

 

[LizWords]

I'm getting the feeling that it is MSM that is shifting its reporting focus to X and E.
There is just nothing new here.

Initially I thought the same thing, but then I read a reputable article with direct quotes about this seemingly reprioritized direction.

Idaho police zero in on movements of 2 victims who went to frat house before killings

Police are continuing to investigate "what occurred" when Idaho students Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin were believed to be at a frat house before they were killed.

abcnews.go.com

Chapin and Kernodle's timeline "seems to be one of the larger areas that we don't have a lot of information in," Idaho State Police spokesman Aaron Snell told ABC News. "So, being able to locate what they did that night, and maybe who they contacted, maybe any routes that they took home, that would be important for the investigation."

"We believe someone has information that will add context to the picture investigators are creating of what occurred. ... Your information, whether you believe it is significant or not, might be one of the puzzle pieces that help solve these murders."

 

[Trino]

Could the killer have left the slider door open on the way in as way of easier access back out and less touch points? If they did go through slider door that is…they could've worn boot covers as well. Removed them after….or burned all their clothes, shoes etc. everything from head to toe.

It's for certain the killer has disposed of clothes, shoes, coat, hat, gloves - everything, including the knife, by now.

 

[Colorado303]

It has been stated by the MPD that the dog was found closed up in a second bedroom, which to me indicates he was put there by either victims or perp. Unless the dog was able to hide himself in the room and close the door behind him.

No it has not!! LE has said the dog was found in a part if the house that wasn’t part if the crime scene. That is all we know.

It could have been in a crate in the kitchen. Or anywhere on the first floor. Or in a utility room. Or bathroom. We don’t know all the areas of the house that are considered part of the crime scene but aside from those areas the dog could have been found anywhere in the house.

It bothers me that LE releases their statement, someone hypothesizes that means the dog was found in a bedroom and suddenly it’s treated as fact. This is only one example where LE’s words have been bent or just ignored.

We don’t know where the dog was found

We don’t know Xena and Ethan were drunk.

We don’t know the order of attack

We don’t know who was brutilized the most. Perhaps Kaylee’s injuries were worse than M’s but we don’t know how they compare to E and X’s injuries

Though they probably did, we don’t know the surviving roommates tried to text and call the other roommates. They may have just gone upstairs and seen “something”.

We don’t know what or who they saw.

We don’t know Ethan was found in the hall

etc, etc.

I know it’s almost impossible to keep up with these fast moving threads. But reading LE’s daily updates is more than manageable. And that’s the best way to make sure we’re not mis-stating facts.

 

[bosh]

I don't want to assume what was meant here, but it appears to suggest a member of KG's family may have done this?

Not at all how I read that statement. I read it as they part of the investigation since their daughter is a victim and they are helping provide any information they can to the authorities in order to track down the killer.

 

[fridaybaker]

One of the victims having more injury than the others (if in fact that's true) could be a clue to a targeted individual, but may be simply explained by many factors, as listed somewhere above, to also include....maybe she was the first victim? Or at least the first victim in that room. Maybe she was the nearest to the door. The first victim may have received more numerous wounds or more deep wounds due to the murderer having more strength for the first victim, which lessens over time as he becomes physically exhausted.

Really hard to draw anything from just that bit of information.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I don’t know if someone has brought up this point yet, but regarding K being targeted— SG implies that the perp going upstairs indicates one of the girls upstairs was targeted, but couldn’t it just be that the perp wanted them all dead? Ie, the household was targeted? In that case, he would also have to go upstairs, in order to get to them all. He might have just been scared away or otherwise deterred from going down to the first floor. Can anyone explain why SG thinks the perp going upstairs does mean K or M were targeted? Maybe just in combination with the difference in brutality?

I got the impression and speculating (I think a common thought though) that if the killer entered and exited on the 2nd floor there would be no reason to even go to the 3rd unless one of them was a target.

If he entered/exited on 2nd floor and X and E were targets, he wouldn't have bothered going all the way upstairs (possibly no exit so risky) just as he didn't go downstairs. There would've been no point to go up to 3rd floor especially since it sounds like girls were asleep/in their bed.

I do think X and E heard something and the only reason they were killed either when killer was on his way up or down the stairs. JMO, MOO...

 

[LizWords]

I disagree but I may be wrong. He's going to want to share his PI's progress, which would very likely overlap with the investigation, which will compromise an investigation. He's also going to find out that if he's using outside resources, it's highly likely that LE is going to exclude him from updates because they don't want a PI in the middle of their investigation.

I'm very confident that LE has also spoken to him about grasping at straws and harming other people's reputations but at this point, he's grieving, exhausted and frustrated because I believe he expected a daily update that includes confidential information for very good reason.

I asked my advocate one time why the information I got was so limited and I was told that it was to prevent compromising an investigation (which happened in another way) and the concern that if LE mentions a POI, there is a chance that a distraught family member may decide to take the law into their own hands. The father of one of Clifford Olsen's young victims made it his life's work to get close enough to Olsen to kill him.

If this PI finds something significant, do you feel SG will take it to LE or do you think he will take it to the media first? Three other families desperately need justice. It's a horrible process that's hard on them but it's the only lawful option they ha

A reputable PI will present all the info he collects to LE as well as to SG. As others have mentioned, bad PIs have been problems in investigations in the past, so who they choose is incredibly important. I know SG does not want him finding answers to his question to interfere with LE or the investigation...

And in terms of an advocate, I was thinking more like at lawyer or some other type of private and experienced liaison to help interface with the media and LE. The sort of advocate a county social services or a localized non-profit would provide for a family like SG does not have the sort of expertise they need with something this high profile and sensitive.

 

[Nudgee]

Where are you getting all this? The police didn't show up until the next day at noon.

I think she means they had been called to the incident on the band field…at least that’s how I read it.

 

[Ur728]

But for 9 hours? It seems to me he was locked in a kennel or at least in a room, otherwise at some point before noon the next day, I would think he would have gone checking things out, and gotten blood on his paws/fur. MOO

This is exactly why I feel like it was the killer who put Murphy in that room. JMO

 

[sumzero]

Idaho murders: Grieving father of slain college student calls loss 'hardest thing in the world'

The devastated dad of murdered Idaho college student Madison "Maddie" Mogen called her death the "hardest thing in the world" and said he just wants justice.

www.foxnews.com

The Moscow Police Department, which is working with the FBI and the state police, hasn't named a suspect or recovered the large fixed-blade knife they believe was used in the attack.

They told Laramie they don't have any leads, he said.

"They update us every day," he added. "We asked them to check in with us whether they have anything or not."

No reason to think this is untrue. The killer, it seems, may be off the grid. He also may have carefully plotted this crime. Unfortunately, it could be awhile before something happens to break this case.

 

[layer]

I agree with this. I also believe that the perp planned this well ahead of time. Put a lot of thought into each piece of "gear" that he would need to commit the crime and prevent leaving evidence.

BTK had his "hit kit". He also planned his crimes thoroughly, he called them "projects". His first crime, the killing of four family members in their home, was his only mass murder. What is not that widely known is that the mother was a coworker, who he had secretly stalked before the murders. Likewise, his second victim, 3 months later, was a coworker.

Also, LE referrred to his victims as targets. There is a very real possibility that this was someone in one or more of the victim's circle, even if it is a serial killer. Don't let the word "targeted" make you think it has to be a one-off.

 

[Ur728]

LE didn't say closed up.

During the search of the home, a dog was found in a room where the crimes had not been committed. Officers did not find any evidence on the dog and there was no indication the animal had entered the crime scene. The dog was taken to Animal Services and released to a responsible person.

Rationally the dog would go check on his owner after the killer left. There would be no reason for the dog to be nervous after this point. Or at all especially if the killer was known to visit. JMO

 

[Dysfunkshun]

BY KHALEDA RAHMAN ON 12/6/22 rbbm,

Slain Idaho students might have "enraged" the killer, says ex-FBI profiler

One of the four victims reportedly had "significantly more brutal" injuries, but an expert says it's important not to "overinterpret" the information.

www.newsweek.com

''One of the slain University of Idaho students who reportedly had more brutal injuries may have "enraged" the killer, according to a former FBI profiler.''

''Earlier this week, it was reported that Goncalves had injuries that were "significantly more brutal" than Mogen's.''

''The friends were killed in the same room on the house's third floor, prompting speculation that Goncalves was the killer's target. But Gregg McCrary, a former FBI profiler, told NewsNation that may not be the case.''

One theory is that Goncalves' "excessive" wounds indicate she was the target. But McCrary said he worked on other cases of multiple murders where the victim subjected to the most violence was not the target.

"It was the person who had put up the most resistance and enraged the killer, so...the killer inflicted more wounds on that person, even though that person wasn't specifically targeted," he said.

"So we could be dealing with anything like that. So it's important not to get tunnel vision on a given hypothesis, important to have multiple competing hypotheses and then let the evidence sort that out and support one and maybe dismiss the other."

Thanks for posting. I always get excited when there’s an article I haven’t yet seen.

Do we know if any of the BAU unit or anyone else has put out an official profile of the cowardly killer? If not, why? It can’t be to not alarm anyone. The alarm has been blaring IMO.

 

[MesquiteO21]

Not at all how I read that statement. I read it as they part of the investigation since their daughter is a victim and they are helping provide any information they can to the authorities in order to track down the killer.

and just to add an example of this -- SG said police asked him to sign a release so they could access Kaylee's mail. That is very much being part of the investigation. MOO.