ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 23

[WildWest]

How long will it take to isolate the perpetrators DNA?

Once LE isolate the DNA, they will be able to build a physical profile of the perpetrator.

LE will know the age of the perpetrator. This means LE can drill down on perpetrators.

DNA test the university and drill down on the perpetrator

This person most likely does not have a criminal record as it will be like shooting fish in a barrel?

Does the US have a centralised DNA database?

If anything, the DNA database would eliminate thousands of criminals from the investigation.
Police will know who is not the perpetrator. imoo

Familial DNA may turn up in a family genetic match. The LE may even establish if the perp is a native ID resident.

The hunt is on...... Drill down! Drill down! Drill down!

#DNA #MOSCOW

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

someone kindly reposted an earlier post from a DNA Forensics person here, *If* they have the killers DNA and it did not have a match in the national database, it *might* be fast tracked for genome coding which could take 5-8 weeks. So many variables considering what LEO might/might not have.

 

[SLouTh]

Just my opinion ….

I don’t think DNA (by itself) is going to solve this particular case …. And if it does I think Police would have to be extremely lucky ….

Rationale - party house and too many different DNA samples on scene ..

Add to that, the season of “winter” and the suspect would mostly likely have all of his body and hair covered with clothing … and if the clothing was black it would not show blood splatter as easily as light colours while the perpetrator made a get a way…

Again, IMO, the case will be solved with technology, and circumstantial evidence …. And a lot of old fashioned Police / FBI investigation and leg work ….

Also let us remember that we now live in an age where a person’s DNA can be changed with modern medicine …. Hence if Police do end up relying on DNA evidence in this case then I personally believe they will need an awful lot of supportive evidence to go with it ….

ALL MO

Edit to add … a huge difference the other way around however ….. if Police can find the victims blood and DNA on the weapon or the perps clothes from that night … that is an entirely different situation ….

 

[Moonglow630]

Also, a point that I’ve said a few times is how did the killer know who was K & who was M? They were both in M’s room in M’s bed. And they look practically identical already. In the dark, how could the killer tell who was who? So do K’s more brutal injuries really reflect someone who was being targeted?

 

[wary]

someone kindly reposted an earlier post from a DNA Forensics person here, *If* they have the killers DNA and it did not have a match in the national database, it *might* be fast tracked for genome coding which could take 5-8 weeks. So many variables considering what LEO might/might not have.

And adding that once that is done, the genetic genealogy research itself could take anywhere from days, to years.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

I was just reading this site out of curiosity.

The 7 Most Lethal Places to Strike with a Knife

Last night I wrote an article that explained how you can make a knife without forging. Tonight I will try to explain how to use that knife for stabbing attacks to the greatest effect. This video shows the reality of defending against a surprise knife attack: Red Stuff First off, let’s get...

www.survivalsullivan.com

“When someone has been stabbed in the lungs they cannot yell or scream in warning to others. If you are trying to take out a sentry, the lungs make a good primary target to allow you to set up a second strike.”

You would think the victims would wake up in the same room. Were the victims stabbed in the lungs?

The coroner stated the four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds, and each was stabbed multiple times. There was no sign of sexual assault.

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

Also, a point that I’ve said a few times is how did the killer know who was K & who was M? They were both in M’s room in M’s bed. And they look practically identical already. In the dark, how could the killer tell who was who? So do K’s more brutal injuries really reflect someone who was being targeted?

We don't know how much residual light existed in the apartment.

 

[DeViLintheDetaiL]

A couple of different scenarios:
It was reported KG's sister said the girls took an Uber home. She confirmed they got home safe based on Ring camera video she requested from a neighbor. I'm assuming this is based on a car passing by that matched a description of the car that was reported they got into? Police later said the driver was a private party not an Uber. They said the driver was not a suspect at the time. It's still unclear to me who he was. An unlicensed taxi or was he known to the girls?
According to bar patron JV the girls were drunk and MM had trouble paying with her phone. A dark colored sedan pulled up and told the girls to hurry up. Those statements seem like he knew the girls. If the driver was not known to the girls and they couldn't pay a non Uber driver with their phones he may have gotten angry and demanded money.
Could this murder have been the result of an attempted burglary? Or if the driver was known could he have helped the girls in to the house if they were too drunk? It's in the realm of possibility that if the driver were to become a suspect it might be for a similar scenario.
Also, EC did he live on campus? He and Xk could have went back to ECs dorm room for awhile. Wouldn't they also have been spotted on the neighbors Ring camera?

Slain University of Idaho Student's Sister Is Searching for Her Killer Herself

Alivea Goncalves isn’t waiting for police to find the person responsible for killing her sister, Kaylee Goncalves, and her sister’s friends Madison Mogen, Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle.

www.insideedition.com

Idaho Student Killings: Separating Facts From Theories

No arrests have been made, no suspect has been identified, and any motive remains unknown — but that hasn't stopped people from speculating.

www.google.com

 

[margarita25]

We don't know how much residual light existed in the apartment.

Hmmm....how dark would it have been in that particular setting at that time? Moon was where and were any windows open? Lamps or night lights?

Did the perp have light or did he kill in the dark? If it was pitch black, would night goggles be a possibility?

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

They actually have bars that center around axe throwing. Normally it is axe's , but I guess one could throw a knife if they wanted to. Not quite sure about the idea of sharp bladed objects and alcohol mixing, but I'm old, what do I know. lol

Just to be clear, the Moscow venue does not sell alcohol. Currently. They hope a future expansion might include a restaurant (cheers!) and alcohol (jeers!).

We get some interesting entrepreneurs in this college town!

 

[Moonglow630]

I can't see any realistic scenario where the killer was waiting in the home. There are five residents of the home all coming and going at different times. If the killer wasn't intricately familiar with both the home layout and the routines of its inhabitants, he'd have no idea where to hide to ensure none of them saw or found him. Even if you wedge yourself in a closet or under a bed, there's still a chance someone sees you.

I have always assumed that he hid out in the woods surrounding the home and 'scouted' it from afar for a few hours. He knew how many people lived there and basically waited until he counted them all, then waited a bit longer for lights to go out and people to settle, then struck.

I’ve always thought the same too. Seems way more plausible. And let’s not forget there’s also a dog at the residence. I don’t know about Murphy, but my dog would barked & made a ruckus if she had been home when someone snuck into my house.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I guess we don’t know if a slice to the throat was used. We only know there was torso and stomach stabs

Can you please cite your source that there were stomach stabs? Being local, I’ve tried very hard to keep current & would appreciate you directing me to a link confirming stabs to the stomach because I’ve not heard that from the coroner or LE. TIA!

 

[LuckE0303]

I believe you’re thinking of Laura Wallen. I’ll never forget that press conference

If I was near you I would kiss you! Lol! Thank you...I've been trying to find it for awhile and you can only imagine the combo of phrases I have put into Google hoping for a hit.

But the most notable distinction between Laundrie and this case is LE saying they've been cleared, or more specifically "believed not to be involved". They didn't say that about Laundrie, they may have been hiding their cards, but they weren't putting out convoluted lies about him not being involved. And while your point about him being able to disappear and kill himself is SO valid, Laundrie didn't seem like a danger to the public the way a deranged mass stabbing murderer would be.

On top of that, even if LE claiming certain people are cleared was some sort of super rare master strategic misinformation investigative tool, I highly doubt that the mayor and the prosecutor would have started reinforcing the "targeted" statements that were initially pretty strongly made by LE just so LE could release two conflicting qualifying statements to the tune of "it wasn't that sort of targeted". It's just too much to believe it was orchestrated, and would be too poorly executed if it was some sort of super manipulative plan on LE's part.

Nah, nope, I don't buy it even a little. I think LE initially thought, for valid reasons, it was more specifically targeted, but their investigation thus far has not provided them any evidence of this. I think they likely regret how those first few press conferences were phrased because other than some more extensive wounds on K, they have no evidence of person-specific targeting after a whole lot of investigating... MOO

Ok....so the purpose if this case wasn't to necessarily mislead the public...but more to see how the perp would act under the pressure of public speaking at a press conference. LE knew he was their man....but asked the family to not show any signs during the press conference. Very interesting to watch the perp cry etc. Knowing LE is loving every second. Your question reminded me of this case because I was so shocked when they arrested him a day or 2 later.

So...an example of LE letting us be a little misled for a brief period of time while they secure their investigation. Victim Lauren Wallen....perp was Tyler Tessier. This article covers the press conference the family gave with him...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cbs17.com/news/parents-knowingly-sat-next-to-daughters-suspected-killer-during-news-conference/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwj59prTief7AhV7mHIEHW5xBf04ChAWegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw1fwO1qSHM6XQYeIN4FT222

 

[WildWest]

Yes, I agree. Up until today, I looked at the headlines and online sleuthing that was questioning the unknowns in X & E's timeline, and figured the police did have a pretty good idea of where they were, when they were there, and what they were doing, at least in a general sense if not specifically, and just hadn't shared those details with the public. It also didn't really seem to be a point of specific focus before today. Not that they didn't want info on it, it just wasn't really publicly prioritized like it is now, which led me to believe they either 1. had a decent amount of info and/or 2. didn't think X & E were the likely targets for whatever reasons.

After reading LE's direct statements about the need to nail down the specifics of the X & E timeline, it seems to me that they don't have nearly as much info as I thought they did about X & E.

Over the last few days, the walk-back/modifying of the potential victim targeting statements, and SG's reactions to those revisions by LE, it's slowly started to click for me. I really do think LE initially believed it was far more targeted, and not to general house, but to a specific girl(s). That is what they seemed to imply in their first week or so of pressers, where they spoke with more decision. And it's certainly what SG thinks LE led him to believe as well. I think when the mayor confidently stated it was targeted etc, then to be publicly corrected by LE, and then to shortly thereafter have LE qualify what sort of "targeting" is now on the table, the mayor reiterated what was a strong theory at the beginning.

The mayor should absolutely not have said anything of the sort before discussing the progress of the investigation and also making sure his statements were strategically aligned with the sort of info LE wanted to convey. At the time, I chalked up the mayor's statements as political hubris and didn't think much about it. I've worked with plenty of small-town political bureaucracies, and they are not fun, there are a lot of egos involved, political power struggles, and political grandstanding. But now I think the mayor may have been, kind of like SG, led to believe that the person-specific targeting theory was pretty solid (mentioned this before, but will say it one more time. as in the debbie collier case, i understand why LE truly believed it was targeted, and why they felt comfortable making pretty definitive statements that ended up being inaccurate after investigation. i'm not blaming them for believing certain evidence was indicative, just pointing out that things can appear one way, but there can be a myriad alternative explanations for what seems obvious initially).

So when the mayor repeats what he thinks is a fairly solid info (again, he shouldn't have done this without talking to LE and his administration first), LE has to say "wait hold up, no evidence it was targeted. but wait again, the house may have been targeted." Basically when the Mayor started the conflicting targeted statements whirlwind that seems to have pushed SG over the edge, LE was just finishing up a lot of more in depth review of info and expertise that made specific targeting less likely than they initially thought.

Wow, so yeah that was super convoluted. Sorry, it was rambling but i'm not going to bother trying to straighten up the flow. I'm basically saying I think they really did think K was targeted for legitimate reasons, but after three weeks and a whole lot of evidence later, they think it's less likely and they need more info on E & X to try to determine if there's any tangible connection to a potential suspect.

I think this is not going to be resolved in the near future. I think this is going to pan out more like the Delphi investigation, where it takes years and a ton of extensive digging and lead chasing to find the killer...

And here we go, ID House Rep says they have this <mod note - investment> and mentions she's worried about University enrollment.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1600195991122345984

 

[Moonglow630]

Hmmm....how dark would it have been in that particular setting at that time? Moon was where and were any windows open? Lamps or night lights?

Did the perp have light or did he kill in the dark? If it was pitch black, would night goggles be a possibility?

The moon was almost in the 4th Quarter, so the moon wasn’t very full. I’m not sure of its exact rise over Moscow, but it wouldn’t have provided a lot of light. Plus, the trees could’ve shielded it. The temperature was in the low to mid 30’s, so with the right clothing, waiting outside would not be terribly unpleasant, IMO

 

[margarita25]

ly·ing in wait. : holding oneself in a concealed position to watch and wait for a victim for the purpose of making an unexpected attack and murdering or inflicting bodily injury on the victim.

Legal Definition of LYING IN WAIT

holding oneself in a concealed position to watch and wait for a victim for the purpose of making an unexpected attack and murdering or inflicting bodily injury on the victim… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

​

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

I’ve always thought the same too. Seems way more plausible. And let’s not forget there’s also a dog at the residence. I don’t know about Murphy, but my dog would barked & made a ruckus if she had been home when someone snuck into my house.

What sort of dog is Murphy?

 

[WildWest]

This leaves you with two potential avenues for success, which I see as
1) *magically* match DNA with someone whose allibi doesn’t have them come into contact with said victim
2) go through 20-30 allibis one by one
3) string together other evidence on a poi such that they are confident enough to convict the suspect and test that dna against your sample

Snipped by me

I feel similar as points in your post, and #2 above could include suspects that had the same classes with one or some of the deceased, the killer could have sat aside watching and hating during classes, even janitors/maintenance people that did work in sororities or University or the King Rd rental. The possibilities are endless. What a daunting task.

 

[margarita25]

Prob already posted, 10 hr ago, marking/bringing fwd

 

[Moonglow630]

What then? what do you think was motive?

I’m still not sure it’s not linked to the Aug 13 2021 break in and stabbing at 3am in Salem OR. I know police have said not, but the similarities are just really bugging me. Especially now if we’re looking more to X & E because the couple attacked here were a married man & woman.

Police investigating link between stabbing murders in Idaho and Salem

Police in Moscow said they are following a tip on a connection between the Nov. 13 quadruple homicide and the 2021 fatal stabbing of Travis Juetten.

www.statesmanjournal.com

 

[WildWest]

Can you please cite your source that there were stomach stabs? Being local, I’ve tried very hard to keep current & would appreciate you directing me to a link confirming stabs to the stomach because I’ve not heard that from the coroner or LE. TIA!

To me "torso" means the area from the hips to the neck which includes the stomach area. Definition of TORSO