ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 23

[WildWest]

My main case study is Barry Morphew. Field dresser extraordinaire.

Could you link me to field dresser extraordinaire? I did not see it in google and oh boy, not enough time to read the entire thread on poor Suzanne here.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

I actually think that hiding in the house and waiting is safer then walking into a home with 6 people in it.

I also think it would explain a lot. Maybe the killer didn’t go upstairs like SG stated, but was already there waiting. Perhaps in K’s closet waiting for her to go to bed. Perhaps his goal was SA, perhaps it was just to watch or maybe it was actually to kill.

But when she went to bed with M, his plan was thrown off. After they fell asleep and stopped talking, he quietly opened M’s door, and killed the two of them.

The way the layout of the 2nd floor has been shown, it doesn’t look like X’s room is super easy to get to, so I’m not sure what potentially happened next.

Yeah 6 people in it that are sleeping.

 

[Charlot123]

Canada would be a little riskier because you can't just show up. Canada will know he's there. if I were doing this, I'd cross over to Pullman. for one thing, no vehicle checkpoints in WA. WA has enhanced privacy protections. Dropping down into or is possible, but it leaves you just nowhere. it's easier to disappear into a crowd.

Right. Intuitively, I don’t think he is Canadian, but logically, can’t exclude either.

 

[WildWest]

Or the killer had owned the KA-BAR knife for quite awhile because he was an avid hunter and would use it to cut up his deer/elk after shooting it in the wild. It would also mean the killer was skilled at using a knife like that and could easily stab his victims without much trouble. He would also be used to seeing a lot of blood so that wouldn’t bother him too much either.

Sometimes hunters post pictures on social media after killing the animal to show off their “trophy”. They may even have a lot of blood on their clothes and display the knives that they used cut up the animal in their photos (which is often done by hunters). Just my thoughts.

Or a discharged Marine that was taught knife fighting skills?

 

[kwa]

Why would a stalker enter a large house where it was obvious that at least 4-5 people lived (I’m going by cars) if they only wanted to kill the person they were stalking? Why wouldn’t they try to kidnap K or get to K some other way? Entering that house with a plan to kill exactly one person makes no sense to me - unless they entered via the 3rd floor slider and went directly into K’s bedroom, which didn’t happen.

I have to look for the interview(s) but I believe both K’s mother and sister have both said that K did not have a stalker. And supposedly she would’ve told them if she did.

BTW, where did K work? I’m not talking about her job in Texas - I think she had a job while she was in Moscow?

MOO

When the lights are on in that house at night, it seems clear that the general layout of the house and where people sleep would be fairly clearly discernible from the back — namely, the wooded side of the house with sliding glass doors on floors 2 and 3. From that view, the first floor rooms on the other side of the house (lower level) would not be visible. In fact, from the outside back vantage point, the lower level may be completely missed or interpreted as a separate lower-level apartment on the opposite side of the house.

Also remember that 4 of the 5 girls in the house look remarkably similar, and many friends came and went. The killer (if watching over an evening or a few nights) might think that only 3 girls lived there.

 

[Charlot123]

Or a discharged Marine that was taught knife fighting skills?

That if he needed to fight. But let's be realistic, on a night when the whole town is partying, in the area where students lodge, with the inhabitants being, likely, tipsy, exhausted and sleeping, he did not need to be a strong ex-marine. He probably had to step carefully. Everyone thinks, Ethan was a tall, strong boy, so this one had to be a match. But after a frat party and an evening with his girlfriend, Ethan probably slept like a rock.

But I do think that the perp might have made his choice based on SM photos. JMO.

And. I can't imagine how the perp looks, but I have a feeling that he steps lightly. You know, there are people who can approach you so stealthy that you don't even notice. In my opinion, he has such trait. JMO.

 

[kwa]

Fixated on a girl in the house but never checked it from a different vantage point? From almost every angle, you can see there is a 1st floor.

Reasonable minds can differ — and I’m just one person with an opinion. But, when I look at pix of the first floor from the parking lot side of the house, the ground-floor space looks to me like garage space &/or a storage-utility-laundry area. I honestly would never guess there were bedrooms down there. The only windows are tiny, horizontal rectangles high up off the ground. Frankly, I’m guessing the girls on Floor 1 must have been paying way less rent than those on floors 2 and 3, because their space looks tiny with almost no outside light. Of course, as it turns out, the fact that their rooms cannot be viewed at all from the outside may very well have saved them.

 

[Sillybilly]

Jumping ahead ...lol I'm such a rebel. I've been following along but rarely have anything to add to this fast moving thread. But in regards to the topic of "LE purposely misleading media etc for purpose of investigation" I'm hoping one of you websleuthers can help me recall the case.

The case involved a woman that had gone missing and at some point her body was found but I can't recall at what point. She may have been pregnant....or not lol. Sorry I'm hazy on the details....but specifically LE requested the family embrace and love on the missing woman's husband/boyfriend during a press conference/media interview where they pled for the perp to come forward. All the while....the family and LE knew the husband/bf was responsible but did not want to show their hand.

This happened within the last 10 years or so.....keeping fingers crossed someone will remember it! Thanks in advance!

Bobby Cutts, killer of Jessie Davis .. LE specifically said Cutts was not a suspect and iirc, he's now doing LWOP.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

Been following this case for the last week in Sydney, Australia and have been reading and watching everything I can daily. I've lasted this long pondering to myself and have discussed with colleagues and friends non-stop.

The Killer (IMHO of course):

• Likely known to one or all housemates, whether it be personal or simply within their social orbit. Potentially have partied at the home previously. Knowing the general layout of the house internally is no doubt helpful but I don't think they NEEDED to know who slept where, etc to pull this off (more on this a bit later).
• I don't believe the killer needs to be a hunter, or have killed previously. As someone stated earlier hunters would have primarily used rifles (or a bow and arrow in some cases) and knife usage is only something used once a kill has been made. They would have no more skill with a knife than your average cook.
• One point I haven't seen mentioned anywhere is how de-sensitised people are to gore in this day and age. Any Gen Z individual, especially male, have grown up in a digital age of ISIS videos, 4chan, you name it. I personally have browsed 4chan for years and have seen some truly sick and depraved content and stuff that would have shocked/sickened me to my core 10+ years ago which barely have an effect on me these days, it's quite sad.
• They would live close by - purely a guess based on no information/evidence shared about vehicle noise or cam footage so far. Would also help to explain (maybe) how they were confident enough to commit the crime and get away without being seen.

How it went down (IMHO again):

• I don't feel like it was planned months or weeks in advance with a knife purchase made specifically for this crime. I own a KA-BAR I purchased purely for a random "prep" phase I went through during lockdown along with storable food, water filters and flint, etc. It could simply be something they had purchased previously purely out of interest or curiosity.
• Something set this person off the previous day/night. I won't speculate as to what this was or which victim it was, but something happened that drove this individual to kill. It could have been a fight with E, an argument, a disagreement or honestly something so off-hand nobody else noticed but for whatever reason triggered the killer. They could have been on the cusp of something horrendous for a multitude of other reasons, but events on this day pushed him over the edge.
• I don't believe the killer was in the house prior to the arrival of the victims, but I can imagine that after the above "triggering event" happened, they went home, got the knife and changed clothing, and walked (or drove close by, not to the house but somewhere like near the Field) and perched themselves up behind the house, giving them the ability to see directly inside the second and third floor. Remember the rear of the house would be shrouded in darkness, and any light inside the home would allow anyone viewing from that angle to see all movement on those two floors.
• This person watched from this spot absolutely amped up, adrenaline pumping knowing what he was about to do. He was there from at least from the time X and E got home with a mere 10 minute gap from K and M returning as well. They would have watched any commotion happening inside, perhaps X, E, K AND M were congregating in the kitchen/2nd floor together, thus giving the impression they needed to only worry about those 4. The victims drunken state gave him further confidence he'd pull this off.
• After watching the 4 head to their rooms with lights being flicked on and off (bedrooms, bathrooms), he waited another 30 minuter to an hour in the still of the night.
• Confident everyone was asleep, he snuck into the second floor through the sliding door.
• I have gone back and forwards with the order of attack, but I believe it could be any of the victims on the 2nd floor OR the 3rd. I think that whichever room was entered first, the resulting attack alerted the other room. In the absolute frenzy the killer would have worked himself up in, any noise or movement coming from another area of the house would have caused him to "finish the job" so to speak. I lean more heavily to the idea he got K and M first, and the frenzy alerted E who simply may have opened his door/called out to the room above, drawing the killer down stairs.

Sorry for the long post - i've had a long time to stew on it.

Good post. However I don’t think e got up. There was a lot of blood coming down that wall from the pics taken. That was probably where the bed was. So much blood that it came from two people.

I’m leaning towards what was said by the coroner. That the victims were found in their beds.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

FYI, the podcast The Interview Room with Chris McDonough is no longer an approved source at Websleuths.

Please do not link to his podcast or his channel.

Thanks !!

 

[KPO]

Reasonable minds can differ — and I’m just one person with an opinion. But, when I look at pix of the first floor from the parking lot side of the house, the ground-floor space looks to me like garage space &/or a storage-utility-laundry area. I honestly would never guess there were bedrooms down there. The only windows are tiny, horizontal rectangles high up off the ground. Frankly, I’m guessing the girls on Floor 1 must have been paying way less rent than those on floors 2 and 3, because their space looks tiny with almost no outside light. Of course, as it turns out, the fact that their rooms cannot be viewed at all from the outside may very well have saved them.

First floor bedrooms both had windows. Drapery and things could be seen from the road. DM's room was on the smaller side but reasonable for a bedroom.

 

[Karin1974]

<modsnip: Quoted post has been removed>

There has been extensive media interest regarding an incident at Taylor Avenue and Band Field on November 13, 2022, at 3:01 a.m. This incident was an alcohol offense which was addressed by the on-scene officer.

Yes!! Did said officer look up & down & all around & notice ANYTHING else? The house is literally a stones throw way from what I have seen. MOO

 

[KPO]

Reasonable minds can differ — and I’m just one person with an opinion. But, when I look at pix of the first floor from the parking lot side of the house, the ground-floor space looks to me like garage space &/or a storage-utility-laundry area. I honestly would never guess there were bedrooms down there. The only windows are tiny, horizontal rectangles high up off the ground. Frankly, I’m guessing the girls on Floor 1 must have been paying way less rent than those on floors 2 and 3, because their space looks tiny with almost no outside light. Of course, as it turns out, the fact that their rooms cannot be viewed at all from the outside may very well have saved them.

Tiny horizontal rectangles high off the ground? Can't be viewed from the outside?? They had normal windows. Totally visible from the front.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

How long will it take to isolate the perpetrators DNA?

Once LE isolate the DNA, they will be able to build a physical profile of the perpetrator.

LE will know the age of the perpetrator. This means LE can drill down on perpetrators.

DNA test the university and drill down on the perpetrator

This person most likely does not have a criminal record as it will be like shooting fish in a barrel?

Does the US have a centralised DNA database?

If anything, the DNA database would eliminate thousands of criminals from the investigation.
Police will know who is not the perpetrator. imoo

Familial DNA may turn up in a family genetic match. The LE may even establish if the perp is a native ID resident.

The hunt is on...... Drill down! Drill down! Drill down!

#DNA #MOSCOW

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

 

[WildWest]

Likely known to one or all housemates, whether it be personal or simply within their social orbit. Potentially have partied at the home previously. Knowing the general layout of the house internally is no doubt helpful but I don't think they NEEDED to know who slept where, etc to pull this off (more on this a bit later).

I think so too, and have a sad feeling K did not end up in M's bed on purpose

One point I haven't seen mentioned anywhere is how de-sensitised people are to gore in this day and age. Any Gen Z individual, especially male, have grown up in a digital age of ISIS videos, 4chan, you name it. I personally have browsed 4chan for years and have seen some truly sick and depraved content and stuff that would have shocked/sickened me to my core 10+ years ago which barely have an effect on me these days, it's quite sad.

TRUTH. Sad truth but non the less. Even my innocent kids are desensitized though I stopped watching my previous habit of evening news several years ago.

They would live close by - purely a guess based on no information/evidence shared about vehicle noise or cam footage so far. Would also help to explain (maybe) how they were confident enough to commit the crime and get away without being seen.

Idk, IME walking a 1/2 mile or over a mile a day in the winter, even brutal days happens, killer could have been accostomed to it like in, do the killing, leave and walk back to car.

I don't feel like it was planned months or weeks in advance with a knife purchase made specifically for this crime. I own a KA-BAR I purchased purely for a random "prep" phase I went through during lockdown along with storable food, water filters and flint, etc. It could simply be something they had purchased previously purely out of interest or curiosity.

LOL on prepping me too, I bought some throwing axes (competition, not for wood), I have health issues, I'm weak and liked they were so light in worst case scenario. But I stand by my comment I've never seen nor hear of knife throwing competitions in bars.

The victims drunken state gave him further confidence he'd pull this off.

IMO it appears drunk is a given from the food truck video and fact X&E came from a frat party IME, I suspect there might be more than alcohol involved, either party drugs or more nefarious someone tricked them into ingesting.

 

[Colorado303]

I agree with you. The risk involved of waiting inside would have been very high. Via FBI profiling, we know that Mass Murders tend to kill close to their home or in an area that they know well. This is to lower the risk of getting caught.
I think that this was a well planned event and that the murderer was in/out as quickly as possible.

Unless the killer was someone who stopped by all the time and their presence wouldn’t have raised an alarm.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

this is from that incident at 3:01 am on Nov 13th
wonder why LE decided to release this bodycam footage now
very interesting

The instructions for requesting more info about that incident have been right there under Rumor Control for a hot minute. Looks like some media took advantage of the opportunity.

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/1064/King-Road-Homicides

 

[WildWest]

That if he needed to fight. But let's be realistic, on a night when the whole town is partying, in the area where students lodge, with the inhabitants being, likely, tipsy, exhausted and sleeping, he did not need to be a strong ex-marine. He probably had to step carefully. Everyone thinks, Ethan was a tall, strong boy, so this one had to be a match. But after a frat party and an evening with his girlfriend, Ethan probably slept like a rock.

But I do think that the perp might have made his choice based on SM photos. JMO.

And. I can't imagine how the perp looks, but I have a feeling that he steps lightly. You know, there are people who can approach you so stealthy that you don't even notice. In my opinion, he has such trait. JMO.

No worries, just spitballing where someone might get knife experience. I personally know 2 men that went to the Marines and never made it...

 

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[bulkyyeti696410]

What if the difficulty and time consuming part of this investigation is related to how social these victims were?
For example, let’s say that one victim has defensive wounds. He/She was out earlier in the evening. They gave 50 high fives, 20 hugs, touched a communal toilet handle, passed around phones and pet someones dog at a frat party. Maybe even had intimate relations with their significant other.
Now as a detective, you get back the DNA results from under this victims fingernails. You have 40 (RANDOM # FOR EXAMPLE PURPOSES) foreign subjects’ dna parsed out by your forensics unit. Since we are dealing with a young population, lets say only 3 or 4 of these are even in your forensic database. Another 5-10 have come forward and provided information and allibis have been vetted and verified. This leaves you with two potential avenues for success, which I see as
1) *magically* match DNA with someone whose allibi doesn’t have them come into contact with said victim
2) go through 20-30 allibis one by one
3) string together other evidence on a poi such that they are confident enough to convict the suspect and test that dna against your sample

I am NOT a professional. IMO this may explain, however, the recent LE inquiry into photos and videos at the frat party in determining X&E’s whereabouts. Also may explain why LE is asking for patience.