ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 26

[scottishgal]

There are no verified reports of specifically where E was found .

makes it almost impossible to explain then why only one person was reported as 'unconscious' rather than two if in the same room . Agree tho E's mother said same room.

too many unknowns.

Here is something I thought of - he/she must know the area very very well to avoid ring cameras on the walk out , if walked, or even walked to where had parked car, hardly likely to have parked right outside ?

unless unplanned and let in ....okay I think I will stick to just reading now, sleuthing myself makes my head spin too much. keep going good people, I am a fan of reading on here.

 

[Bhodie]

I went down a rabbit hole on TicTok found the girls accounts and those of their friends and now I just feel even mores sick for these young people. Let me start off by saying the house was like a fishbowl, if there were window coverings they did not seem to be utilized. Perhaps young adults are not wary of that. Secondly with all the SM posts/videos it would not be difficult to deduce the layout of the house or the rooms. Lastly, I found video coverage that someone took while the police were photographing and collecting evidence on the 2nd floor. It would be the room that has the green leaf wall with the "Good Vibes" light and the 3 pink swirly pictures on the wall. Does anyone know where this video came from? I did not see a news station banner. I thought with all of us having eyes on this someone would have a link to share of that video or perhaps point me in the direction to find it if anyone knows.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I mentioned this in the previous thread, but found it interesting the home next to these steps/trail has been on the market and was just sold within the last couple of days. Granted, this doesn’t indicate the home was vacant, which is my intent.

These steps appear to run from Shetland Ct all the way to Walenta/Ridge, which is just a stone’s throw away from 1122; particularly leading to the rear of the house.

There doesn’t appear to be an entrance from Palouse River to 1122 except if using a W route or 95 to the E as well.

Obviously this is nothing, but it’s interesting trying to speculate where a vehicle may have been parked.

Or a hidden, vacant area out of sight to change clothes or hidden place to sit, watch and wait. Good observation. I do wonder if it was vacant?

P.S. love your avatar pic - time is a flat circle lol

 

[Down To Earth]

I agree. But what I am finding myself having a hard time with is why there were no blood found outside anywhere. You'd think that the killer would have left some bloody footprints, drops, or some other kind of blood trail no matter which way he left or direction he went, even if he changed then bagged his bloody clothes, and swung from tree to tree to get out of the neighborhood.....that is, unless he took a shower (which would have been extremely bold and gutsy....unless he didn't know about the 2 roommates sleeping downstairs). JMO

I see this part of the investigation as being extremely relevant for profiling this person too.

I've thought too about what type of blood "silhouettes" must have been created during this crime. For example, even if the perp(s) wore booties, if blood sprayed over their shoes, there would be a negative impression where their feet were. LE wouldn't be able to establish shoe size, but could get some general type of idea of foot size. This type of "silhouette" IMO would be left here and there even if a good deal of cleanup were done. I can't imagine the sheets, blankets or mattresses would be able to be cleaned up all that well given the timeframe, but again that's just my opinion. Perhaps LE can determine if perp(s) straddled any victim on a mattress during the attack, and a general size of the perp based on some kind of silhouette. Just pure speculation.

 

[debbiediablo]

IMO, the only important blood inside the house is the killer’s blood. Is there some pattern or characteristic out of all the blood they can see that will stand out as needing to be tested to identify the killer? Obviously any blood found outside either bedroom would be … but maybe he didn’t touch anything outside the bedrooms (besides the floor he had to walk across.)

Initially, the blood on the knife belongs to the first victim, then to first and second victims, then first-second-third and finally all of them. Additional blood found in the victim's wounds most likely would be the killer's unless someone else has been injured by that knife prior to the murders...human or animal. It will also show when the killer was injured. My daughter has a PhD in biomedical engineering, and she has worked her entire career exclusively with RNA and DNA. She tells me the process of making these determinations is time-consuming and must be perfect... but it's absolutely do-able although going to ancestral DNA gets more complicated and time-consuming which is partly why this will likely take a long time. But it does work. See Michelle Martinko Murder 1979. The killer was arrested exactly 39 years later (and subsequently convicted) on DNA evidence like I'm describing. He lived about 20 miles from us and was highly thought of in the community. Similar to the the Delphi suspect.

 

[eclecticcowboy]

I would bet you $100 if the media even thought they saw a drop of blood, they'd report it.

Remember the picture of the supposed blood dripping down the foundation wall outside the house near the 2nd floor sliding glass door that goes to the kitchen? Everyone on the internet was saying it looked like blood (and it did), and even early on some news stations were focusing on it. I personally do not think it was blood because there were never any evidence markers near it. It might have been heating oil. Who knows?!

{{ MY OPINION ONLY }}

Blood oozes from home where four Idaho students were killed

Sources in Moscow, Idaho, say the house where four students were brutally murdered Sunday was the worst they have ever seen. There was so much blood that it oozed through the walls.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It's extremely rare for heating oil to be used in that part of the country.

 

[layer]

I would bet you $100 if the media even thought they saw a drop of blood, they'd report it.

Good stuff!
I would even bet that if a drop of blood were seen DM would include something to the effect of "BLOODBATH!" in their headline.

 

[LizWords]

makes it almost impossible to explain then why only one person was reported as 'unconscious' rather than two if in the same room . Agree tho E's mother said same room.

too many unknowns.

Here is something I thought of - he/she must know the area very very well to avoid ring cameras on the walk out , if walked, or even walked to where had parked car, hardly likely to have parked right outside ?

unless unplanned and let in ....okay I think I will stick to just reading now, sleuthing myself makes my head spin too much. keep going good people, I am a fan of reading on here.

Shortly after the Idaho murders, survivors from a similar sort of nighttime attack back in the 90s in Buffalo, NY spoke out about their own experiences with discovering the body, after having slept through it. It's a good read, gives you an idea of what happens to people's cognitive processes during a super traumatic event.

"The next morning at around 9 a.m., Zabel entered the victim’s room to ask her to move her car and was overpowered by the stench of vomit.

"I didn't see any blood," Zabel said. "Her tongue was sticking up, there was liquid caked on her face. I thought she had choked on her vomit and I called 911 and said my housemate choked on her vomit."

It was only when the paramedics arrived and commented on the amount of blood that Zabel realized the room was covered in blood.

"The psychologist said it was a protective mechanism," Zabel told Fox News Digital. "The wall had what looked like red broom marks. Her hair was soaked in blood, so was the bed and the floor. They think he used a hammer."

University of Idaho slayings rekindle grisly memories of similar 1992 attack in Buffalo

 

[cottonweaver]

more DNA to disentangle
more people who know the layout of the murder home


'While coming and going from their own rentals, it wasn’t uncommon on most weekends, and some weekdays, for neighbors to encounter streams of college-aged people shuttling between homes in the two conjoined cul-de-sacs, they said'

( we've focussed a lot on partying between frat house nearby & the murder house)

https://amp.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269736921.html

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Perhaps, if the Elantra is sitting somewhere in a garage, the person they're seeking will be tempted to clean it and drive it into somewhere like a lake. I wondered when the killer was called "sloppy" whether this was an invitation for him to respond to the insult.

Interestingly, that Calgary murder was planned out and prepped for to a T... except that killer was kinda dumb to use his own vehicle and stood out because the color green possibly. Maybe he thought smarter than a paper trail for a rental and too risky to steal a car.

I think about this in relation to this case as I think it's important to think about... if the Idaho killer used a vehicle these would be the options:

1. Use their own vehicle for convenience and privacy (cleaning afterwards, can store somewhere)
2. Rental car which has a paper trail. Even with fake ID, too much trouble to go through to get fake ID and then there's the costs
3. Steal a car. If someone who doesn't have a criminal past, might screw it up and it's risky as then could get caught stealing the car. If a criminal, still risky to botch big plan for a car theft

I'm going with #1 if killer wasn't on foot/bike.

 

[Helechawagirl]

The guy you are referencing also thought it was quiet compared to what it was typically like:

“That Sunday, however, the typical weekend crowd of 15 to 20 people in the home’s backyard, sometimes with a fire pit alight, wasn’t there, he said. “It was kind of bizarre,” Harsh told the Statesman in an interview, staring at the now-vacant home. “There was not a lot of activity.””

“Harsh said he can’t be certain, but, as he dozed off early that morning, he thinks he heard a scream from the vicinity of his neighbors’ home, he told the Statesman. But it didn’t arouse much of his attention, he said, because he thought of it as more of a “party sound,” which wasn’t out of the ordinary for the time or setting.”

And we don’t know when the black SUV showed up, we are assuming it was sometime immediately before or after the 911 call but there is no information about that. This also isn’t necessarily the black SUV the man in the article is talking about, there could have been another black SUV, considering it was a busy weekend on campus.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269736921.html#storylink=cpy

He has changed his story. Why? Next he’ll say reporter misquoted him. JMO

 

[EmmieA]

Oh, ok, thanks. Yes, I guess more press conferences would be helpful, although if there are no real updates and they are being very tight-lipped about certain information, I guess they don’t feel it’s worth it to hold them.

I agree. Plus I think their daily releases are really helpful: They tell us what, if anything is new, they continue to list the facts and dispel the rumors. I know a lot of people think their communications have been an issue but I think they’ve been on the ball recently.

Also, I don’t think it’s a big deal at all that there are less MPD on the case, especially considering there are more FBI, who are the guys specially trained to analyze what they’re dealing with now. I actually thought that was a very positive move.

MOO

 

[Justice101]

I have a high school friend who is now head of DNA sequencing at a major university. He said there are so many more tools available today and that all they need are a few cells from the individual (be it blood or even skin cells) and they can extract full DNA matchable sample.

 

[EmmieA]

He has changed his story. Why? Next he’ll say reporter misquoted him. JMO

Can you link me to where he changed his story? I’m just getting caught up this morning. TIA

 

[ACG2x]

What was speculated and MOO was a few of the following ideas:

- 911 dispatcher always uses the word unconscious when a person is non responsive period in any call so not a big thing to use that word
- perhaps one of surviving roommates fainted after the trauma of seeing the scene or a victim so neighbors used the phone to call 911

It's just a word I think everyone got focused on when it's probably just a technicality so to speak.

This is what I have thought for a while - the "unconscious person" was actually one of the two surviving roommates who came upstairs, saw what they saw and went hysterical. Other one then comes upstairs like what's happening and does the same. Both are in literal hysteria and they grab onto each other and decide to get out of the house which is classic fight or flight response and exactly what you'd expect someone in their position to do.

There are a ton of people that live in close proximity to the King Road house and on a Sunday morning with most people off work and no students at class, there would be a bunch of people home or nearby to hear the screaming they would've done. Neighbors start to hear the commotion and see the two freaking out hysterically outside. They call 911 but on the call whoever made it faints or passes out from the shock. Neighbors have no idea what's happening and can't get any concrete info because they are crying hysterically.

Someone takes the phone from whoever passed out and reports something like IDK what's going on but these two girls were panicking and now one of them is unconscious but breathing. 911 operator codes it as an unconscious person, LE arrives and you know the rest.

Very easy to envision a scenario like that IMO. Based on where the house is and as I said on a Sunday when most students and others in the area would be at home and/or outside, if either survivor saw the presumed crime scene and started screaming and crying, it would attract attention quickly.

 

[Allabouttrial]

https://amp.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269736921.html

I can't quote it all, against ToS, so here's a couple of paragraphs, there's more at the link

'Several residents on the block where four University of Idaho students were found dead last month recalled a boisterous party atmosphere in the enclosed neighborhood located just off campus, with the occupants of the large rental home at its core often hosting friends into the early morning hours.
While coming and going from their own rentals, it wasn’t uncommon on most weekends, and some weekdays, for neighbors to encounter streams of college-aged people shuttling between homes in the two conjoined cul-de-sacs, they said. Aluminum cans of alcoholic beverages and red plastic cups frequently were left behind on the single, sloped path, one longtime resident said'

Since August, the home had three noise complaints for loud music — including two on the same night in early September — reported to police, according to a Statesman review of Moscow police reports related to the tenants.

And yet from the NYPost:

---

Neighbors told The Post on Thursday the six people who shared the house were quieter than their rowdy collegiate neighbors.

The group of students would have small parties, but they were usually quiet by 10 p.m., said HT, 22. They would sit on the patio around a fire, drink beer and listen to music, and she said she sometimes saw small groups of people in the kitchen.

---

S, 21, added: “I didn’t go to bed until 2 or 3 and I didn’t hear anything,” while also noting all was quiet when he left the house at 11:45 the next morning, just minutes before the police were alerted to the crime.

---

University of Idaho killings: ‘World turned upside down,’ says mom of victim’s boyfriend

The boyfriend of Madison Mogen, one of the four murdered University of Idaho students, has been left bereft ahead of a holiday weekend the young lovebirds were supposed to share together.

nypost.com

 

[BlueTunes]

It wasRemember the picture of the supposed blood dripping down the foundation wall outside the house near the 2nd floor sliding glass door that goes to the kitchen? Everyone on the internet was saying it looked like blood (and it did), and even early on some news stations were focusing on it. I personally do not think it was blood because there were never any evidence markers near it. It might have been heating oil. Who knows?!

{{ MY OPINION ONLY }}

Blood oozes from home where four Idaho students were killed

Sources in Moscow, Idaho, say the house where four students were brutally murdered Sunday was the worst they have ever seen. There was so much blood that it oozed through the walls.

www.dailymail.co.uk

JMO It was blood. If it wasn’t, the police would have told us that already. Confirming that it was blood would only lead to increased panic among the public. That is something they try very hard not to do naturally.

 

[Wheresgabby21]

https://amp.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269736921.html

I can't quote it all, against ToS, so here's a couple of paragraphs, there's more at the link

'Several residents on the block where four University of Idaho students were found dead last month recalled a boisterous party atmosphere in the enclosed neighborhood located just off campus, with the occupants of the large rental home at its core often hosting friends into the early morning hours.
While coming and going from their own rentals, it wasn’t uncommon on most weekends, and some weekdays, for neighbors to encounter streams of college-aged people shuttling between homes in the two conjoined cul-de-sacs, they said. Aluminum cans of alcoholic beverages and red plastic cups frequently were left behind on the single, sloped path, one longtime resident said'

Since August, the home had three noise complaints for loud music — including two on the same night in early September — reported to police, according to a Statesman review of Moscow police reports related to the tenants.

1) They are normal college kids, of course it was a "boisterous" party house compared to how 30+ year olds live
<modsnip - casting aspersions on a person not named POI by LE>
3) Noise complaints could be a possible motive, someone who was extremely annoyed by all the partying and late night noise

 

[debirlfan]

That's the $64,000 question, isn't it! I would like to know how far away this neighbor actually lived who allegedly spotted this open door. Witnesses often prove to be wholly unreliable in these cases. The police chief seems pretty clueless so is this bit of info even true or is this a rumor?

The could have been open that morning with no relation to the murders. One of the downstairs roommates could have run out to the car to get something. If the dog was sleeping down there, one could have let the dog out, then gone back to bed.

 

[layer]

Interestingly, that Calgary murder was planned out and prepped for to a T... except that killer was kinda dumb to use his own vehicle and stood out because the color green possibly. Maybe he thought smarter than a paper trail for a rental and too risky to steal a car.

I think about this in relation to this case as I think it's important to think about... if the Idaho killer used a vehicle these would be the options:

1. Use their own vehicle for convenience and privacy (cleaning afterwards, can store somewhere)
2. Rental car which has a paper trail. Even with fake ID, too much trouble to go through to get fake ID and then there's the costs
3. Steal a car. If someone who doesn't have a criminal past, might screw it up and it's risky as then could get caught stealing the car. If a criminal, still risky to botch big plan for a car theft

I'm going with #1 if killer wasn't on foot/bike.

The way they caught Timothy McVeigh was the rented Ryder truck.