ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 27

[bigbear7878]

Did our case put ideas in someone’s head? Random? No relationship between the two.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article268136212.html

Seeing how this happened two weeks earlier....nope. just some other creep.

 

[Emerald1328]

TRANSCRIPT OF BRIEF INTERVIEW WITH CHIEF FRY

(Commencement weekend)

10TH DECEMBER.

Reporter - Tell us about the weekend - so many people in town. What's happening as far as public safety during this time?.

Chief - Yes, it's a very important weekend for the University. It's our commencement weekend and we're going to have a lot of officers around. We're going to have a lot of Idaho State Police around. You'll see us both, at the commencement, as well as just around town, providing safety.

Reporter - Where are we at in the investigation right now?.

Chief - Well, we're working steady on the investigation, still. We're still receiving tips, we're still receiving items in from down at the lab. Things are continuing, were still pushing forward, and it's.. we're in the normal process of investigation. We're still doing a lot of interviews and I'm talking to a lot of people.

Reporter - What about the number of people involved, at this point?.

Chief - We still have the same amount of staff, Idaho State Patrol, our local Moscow Police Department Detectives and FBI, not only here locally, but still across our nation, across our state.

I’ve seen where local reporters are getting very upset with the chief over these interviews. The Moscow PD is putting up these daily interviews with the chief so people will feel like they’re being open, but whoever is asking questions is only asking the ones the PD wants to answer. IMO, the questions and answers clearly sound scripted. Local reporters feel that the chief has a responsibility to put himself out there and face the hard questions, the questions people actually want to know, instead of the softball ones he’s answering - regardless if he actually answers them or not. I can see their point.

 

[Birmingplumb]

Why alarm the graduation guests with a "be vigilant" stay in touch-warning if they had a real suspect?

 

[mendicant]

Why alarm the graduation guests with a "be vigilant" stay in touch-warning if they had a real suspect?

Because could advise need not be circumstantial.

 

[Emerald1328]

The surviving students did not notice that no one was around. You can smell blood. It has a heavy, cloying rust iron odor. The students bled out, there would have been blood everywhere. The house would br filled with the stench.So they call friends over? Bizzare.

I would not recognize the smell of blood. I’ve never smelled a massive amount of blood before however. Even if I had, there’s no way it would click in my mind that a mass murder had just occurred in my house.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I’m still pining on this, but I still find the pathway (stairs) on Shetland Ct to Walenta/Ridge as peculiar, or ideal. Zeroing in further and it almost appears if this pathway extended N it would literally run through 1122, down the steps in front of 1122, and out to Taylor, where (I believe) the questionable jacket was retrieved.

I’m chalking it up to another likely obscurity in the case. Interesting nonetheless.

I'm getting murky on this already. What jacket?

 

[SUSAN ANN]

I’m still pining on this, but I still find the pathway (stairs) on Shetland Ct to Walenta/Ridge as peculiar, or ideal. Zeroing in further and it almost appears if this pathway extended N it would literally run through 1122, down the steps in front of 1122, and out to Taylor, where (I believe) the questionable jacket was retrieved.

I’m chalking it up to another likely obscurity in the case. Interesting nonetheless.

I only heard about that jacket a couple of days ago, not sure how I missed that, but wouldn’t it be interesting to know if that DNA is matching any DNA so far?

 

[10ofRods]

I think this was planned and the person wore gloves, possibly cut-resistant gloves/arm coverings, and maybe even had gear such as night-vision goggles. I think he watched the house, had been there before (crashed a party), and knew the layout. He maybe killed Ethan first because he was a male and would be a bigger threat if he fought back.

If this was a crime of passion, they would have been sloppy and left DNA all over the place (not been prepared for a knife becoming slippery from blood and cut themselves, or a victim fighting back and scratching them, getting the attacker’s DNA under their fingernails, etc.). I think this person was prepared and left few traces.

I think the person is a young male, strong enough to not get too exhausted knifing multiple people, someone who comes off as creepy or a social reject, he’s envious of more socially successful people and gets angry he is rejected by women, he developed a fixation on one of the girls and the rest are collateral damage. I think he did it alone, this is someone who can’t develop a bond with someone, not well enough to have a trustworthy killing partner.

Well put. It's either a version of your scenario OR LE has way more evidence than they are letting on - including the DNA of the murderer. Nothing so far leads me to think they are close to a firm ID on this perp, except via genealogical research - which will take months.

If there had been bloody footprints all over the house (we've heard nothing of the sort), they would immediately be able to say what sex the person likely was, and they would have a height estimate. Frankly, if they have that info and are withholding it from the public, the public's worry level goes up. Everyone feels better if they can look over their shoulder for a particular type of person. It would seem that LE has no information to help with that.

So, no hair? No footprints? No bloody handprints? No word on DNA. Were there fibers? We didn't see evidence markers on the sliding door. The roommates who anxiously waited outside their friends' door, trying to wake them up by calling, did not apparently see blood tracked all over.

So yes, I too believe this was planned. The fact that one can easily find online instructions to aid in such an assault is alarming. One can also buy the things you've mentioned online.

A poster who was here in the past couple of days mentioned that using a knife like the one theorized in this case can be done in a manner that doesn't use as much energy/result in exhaustion, which I thought was interesting (person was USMC, they are trained to use non-stabbing motions in the use of their Ka-Bar knives).

I think the planning was a set of extensive fantasies that helped the perp deal with whatever attachment he had to that house or one or more of its occupants. He tried to think of everything in advance. He may have waited quite some time for the right opportunity (no party at the house on a Saturday night, for example).

 

[Sundog]

Why alarm the graduation guests with a "be vigilant" stay in touch-warning if they had a real suspect?

And new security measures at today's Commencement ceremonies -

Clear Bag Policy: The University of Idaho has implemented a clear bag policy for all events in the ICCU Arena and for events on the Moscow campus with 500+ attendance. This new policy is intended to improve and maintain public safety and event security and to improve bag check efficiency at events. Learn more about the Clear Bag Policy.

Metal Detectors: In an effort to continue the University of Idaho’s long-standing commitment to provide a safe and secure environment for all patrons, graduates and faculty/staff, walk-through metal detectors have been implemented at entrances of the ICCU Arena.

Bag Checks: The University of Idaho is committed to continual improvement of our events and the safety and comfort of our guests. In the interest of enhanced safety, we will be conducting bag checks at all the entrances for the Moscow winter commencement ceremony. No bags will be permitted for graduating students.

Winter 2020 Virtual Commencement Ceremonies

Join us for Virtual Commencement at 11:30 a.m. Saturday, Dec. 12 at uidaho.stageclip.com. Tell your friends and family to celebrate the valuable achievement of a Vandal degree.

www.uidaho.edu

 

[Emerald1328]

I’m still pining on this, but I still find the pathway (stairs) on Shetland Ct to Walenta/Ridge as peculiar, or ideal. Zeroing in further and it almost appears if this pathway extended N it would literally run through 1122, down the steps in front of 1122, and out to Taylor, where (I believe) the questionable jacket was retrieved.

I’m chalking it up to another likely obscurity in the case. Interesting nonetheless.

What jacket? What did I miss?

 

[ktm44]

I only heard about that jacket a couple of days ago, not sure how I missed that, but wouldn’t it be interesting to know if that DNA is matching any DNA so far?

I believe it comes from unconfirmed sources. I haven’t found anything in LE updates that mention it.

 

[TooMuchGun]

Did our case put ideas in someone’s head? Random? No relationship between the two.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article268136212.html

Vandals Did play UC Davis that nite of the 12th. I think the Elantra is from another state not Wa or ID

 

[10ofRods]

I would not recognize the smell of blood. I’ve never smelled a massive amount of blood before however. Even if I had, there’s no way it would click in my mind that a mass murder had just occurred in my house.

I doubt the smell was strong outside of the two murder rooms. The overall smell of blood can be experienced by sniffing a newly opened package of steak.

You might get something out of this article that gives one graduate student's account of living near the home.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269736921.html

Thank you - yes, that's great. So no outrageous parties that night (too cold? finals?) I find it hard to believe that finals would slow the roll altogether. There was a party at Sigma Chi, of course.

 

[Simply Southern]

Yesterday I typed up a big post on thread #26 since I saw some people seemed to suggest it's simple to look up a car using a "national database". I accidentally lost the post and didn't feel like typing it up again, but here goes...

From my experience having worked in criminal and federal courts, a combination of local and national databases may be used based on what facts LE already have or don't have. The "national database" is not as streamlined or complex as one might think.

Their job to identify the owner of a car would be fairly simple if they have the license plate number by using the relevant state DMV or police records. If LE knows the license plate number of the Hyundai, then they certainly already know who owns the car. From there, knowing the VIN number also makes it easier to track down the car later should someone ever try and register.

It would be more complicated if they only have the make/model/color/estimated year. In that case, you're still mostly going to need to rely on local data but you probably don't know where the car was registered without the license plate. The National Motor Vehicle Information System maintained by the Federal gov't doesn't always have specific details about the make of cars. In that case, you need to know where the car was registered to look at more detailed state or local records. Say LE has a list of every white Hyundai owner's name, address, and license plate number for all of Idaho and the surrounding states, well, that may not tell you anything useful if the car was stolen, the licenses plates were switched, the car was from another state, etc.

The Federal gov't only maintains two databases related to cars, one for titling info (which not every state even reports to yet) and another for stolen cars and revoked/suspended drivers. More detailed info than that will only be kept locally in various ways depending on the state. If the FBI has a secret national database of car info then it's probably because they bought the data from car insurance companies or scrapped it with surveillance. The ACLU would certainly want to have a word.

Each state does things differently as well, there may be more ways car information is documented publicly. In my state, we pay personal property on our cars. I can go to my county website right now, type in a name or address, and see a basic description of the car that person pays property taxes on. Information held by the department of revenue on cars in my state doesn't need a warrant to access, it can simply be ordered. Information held by the assessor's office that can be found with the basic search function online obviously doesn't need a warrant to access, but it can get tricky, if LE needs to run a more specific "back end" type of search on the assessor's data then they may need a digital warrant. Again, this is for my state/county, not Idaho.

A cursory look through of the Latah County website it does not appear that they pay personal property taxes on cars in that county and likely don't have that additional documentation on cars. This is another reason knowing where a car was registered is important.

TLDR; there is not a super cohesive "national database" of cars. Having something physical to track and spot is more important than any information they could glean about the car through a database imo.

There is a national titled vechile data base. MOO, LE can sort vehicle type, within a range-state/miles/year/color " and produce vehicle owners quickly.

The vehicle they are looking for is more than likely stolen. I would think the FBI has already researched/investigated all local/student owned from exsisting data bases. They more than likely have a list of all stolen/date/location. In the US everything is tracked and by multiple private and government agencies.

National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS) | Overview

The National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS) was created under the Anti Car Theft Act of 1992.

bja.ojp.gov

The National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS) was created under the Anti Car Theft Act of 1992. In 1996, the Anti Car Theft Act was reauthorized and amended, transferring the responsibility for NMVTIS from the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) to the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ). NMVTIS is designed to prevent various types of automobile theft and fraud by providing an electronic means for verifying and exchanging title, brand, theft, and other data among state motor vehicle titling agencies, law enforcement officials, consumers, and other authorized users of the System. Where implemented, NMVTIS has already produced results, including time and cost savings, reductions in consumer wait time, improved recovery rate of stolen vehicles, increased ability to identify cloned vehicles prior to title issuance, and improved investigative abilities.

 

[KBlackRabbit]

Well put. It's either a version of your scenario OR LE has way more evidence than they are letting on - including the DNA of the murderer. Nothing so far leads me to think they are close to a firm ID on this perp, except via genealogical research - which will take months.

If there had been bloody footprints all over the house (we've heard nothing of the sort), they would immediately be able to say what sex the person likely was, and they would have a height estimate. Frankly, if they have that info and are withholding it from the public, the public's worry level goes up. Everyone feels better if they can look over their shoulder for a particular type of person. It would seem that LE has no information to help with that.

So, no hair? No footprints? No bloody handprints? No word on DNA. Were there fibers? We didn't see evidence markers on the sliding door. The roommates who anxiously waited outside their friends' door, trying to wake them up by calling, did not apparently see blood tracked all over.

So yes, I too believe this was planned. The fact that one can easily find online instructions to aid in such an assault is alarming. One can also buy the things you've mentioned online.

A poster who was here in the past couple of days mentioned that using a knife like the one theorized in this case can be done in a manner that doesn't use as much energy/result in exhaustion, which I thought was interesting (person was USMC, they are trained to use non-stabbing motions in the use of their Ka-Bar knives).

I think the planning was a set of extensive fantasies that helped the perp deal with whatever attachment he had to that house or one or more of its occupants. He tried to think of everything in advance. He may have waited quite some time for the right opportunity (no party at the house on a Saturday night, for example).

Thanks, and agree this is a fantasy that has been brewing in his head for a long time and finally escalated to the point of taking action.

I think the attacker is a fan of military/special forces-type organizations and that kind of regimentation. I think it makes him feel tough and macho and, in his mind, validates his own ideas by imagining that men in military-style organizations think the same way he does. I think the attacker likes to buy gear that has the word “tactical” included in the description, you can get night vision hunting goggles/binoculars from a major online retailer for less than $200.

 

[NuttMegg]

I just wanted to take a moment and remind everyone that the occupant(s) of the white car may only be witnesses and not the killer. If they have no info to add, the white car may lead to a dead end. Imo.

i can't imagine this murderer arriving at or leaving from the neighborhood in a car. Maybe a good handful of blocks away, Jmo

 

[AuntTricia]

I would not recognize the smell of blood. I’ve never smelled a massive amount of blood before however. Even if I had, there’s no way it would click in my mind that a mass murder had just occurred in my house.

I sincerely hope you never have to smell it. Especially if it is a family member's blood. It is something you never forget.

 

[SRWCF]

I am really late to post today, guys, but I found this clip very interesting.

At about 1 minute 20 seconds:

• Inside Edition Reporter: What is the significance of this car?
• Robbie Johnson (Moscow Idaho Police Information Officer): The significance of the car is...we know it was there. We know we haven't spoken to who was in that car, who may have owned that car, and we need to speak with them. We know that that person could really have the information we need to break the case.

 

[MsBetsy]

Why alarm the graduation guests with a "be vigilant" stay in touch-warning if they had a real suspect?

Probably because police haven't identified or arrested anyone yet.

 

[Snoop Sister]

What jacket? What did I miss?

I don’t even think it was a jacket. It was from an old post a few weeks ago if it is what I think the person is posting about. Something found near a fire hydrant. Police just left it there and some here were claiming it was a coat that M was seen wearing at the food truck. If whatever it was, was significant, I am sure LE wouldn’t leave it laying on the ground.