ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 29

[Mominmi]

My apologies if this has been asked and answered. Tried my best to keep up but several times had to skip pages and pages of several threads in order to finally get to end. (When in this pickle, I do this by skipping either even or odd pages so I think I catch the gist of what’s discussed.)

So, my question is about the knife. If it was found would it be possible, probable, a sure thing or there’s no way that it would still contain dna/blood evidence from the victims? I’m assuming knife has meaning for the sicko that did this and that he’d wash it really well, maybe even clean it with something that sort of files it down. But does it have “grooves” on the handle or “joints” where the handle and guard, if it has one, attach And it’d be impossible for killer to truly get it clean. Killer probably disassembled it and threw the parts in seperate bodies of water and it will never be found. But I am hoping not and it’s miraculously found and has evidentiary value.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I do not think this is an impulsive rage killer, exactly (although again, you can have people who are great planners also fly off into rages - it's actually a scary personality blend, IMO).

I totally agree that this was planned - and my own word would be...meticulously planned. Researched on the internet. Telegraphed to others in only the most hidden ways - a challenge to people around him, "See who I am? You don't even look at me - you don't see who I am!"

Your point here puts me in mind of what writer Dave Cullen (author of Columbine) calls a "spectacle murder," murder that is theatrical and over-the-top for the purposes of media attention. Cullen writes about mass shooters in this category, borrowing terrorist tactics and shooting up a school or prayer meeting or a supermarket to express dominance and become the focus of the media. But we know a lot of serial offenders who might share this same need for attention and twisted adulation. The crime could have been planned but the victims were not chosen as themselves, that is, not because they were particular individuals but rather because the house was generally occupied by 5-6 women and no men. Finding a male on the premises might be one reason why there were two survivors. Just my highly speculative and ungrounded opinion.

 

[Charlot123]

I wonder if the killer knew about the dogs sleeping situation because that seemed awful lucky he was crated. If u don’t know this group and r watching the house u wouldn’t know she crates the dog at nite or hes not an issue. I just can't see someone watching the house and still wanting to execute the plan knowing she has a dog. Killer knew or perhaps thought K was away. She went home in a subaru and came back in a range. I think it's not as much about K as it is X,E,M and its perhaps slowing LEs efforts cuz majority of leads are about K. Just my op

As you have said, the killer might have not recognized K’s different car. However, he should have seen another car, seen that there was a guest. I think he was prepared to take out any guest as well.

 

[TooMuchGun]

No. The 'heated words' happened at the frat party where he was with Xana.

The Bettie Ball that Ethan and siblings attended was earlier in the evening.

see this is why I initially thought E X were the targets. X is a junior and her and E started dating this spring his fresh year. The frat president said He knew E and he always saw him at the house. He said and me and X have been good friends since before E. X was life of the party.

 

[GhostGhost]

I believe this is the verbiage from the article that SG got his info from.

'The grieving father paid for a copy of his daughter's death certificate, which included some of the details of her injuries – but he doesn't know whether his daughter or Mogen were the targets. "I have my own suspicions," he said. This appears further down in the report if you read the entire article. MO

I think you’ll also find that the Coroner spoke to him and gave him info on the bodies.

MOO.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

IMO, I think the killer wasn’t as intelligent and organized as we think. I think it was an angry frenzied ambush that happened very quickly. I have a hard time thinking the killer mulled over where to stab the victims-he just did it in a visceral rage.

The fact that the killer wasn't caught coming out of the door leads people to the "meticulous planning" and "very intelligent" conclusion. That doesn't mean he/she/they didn't leave behind evidence that will lead to arrest and conviction. Certainly, there is the chance that this person was caught somewhere on video or left DNA or other evidence. I'm sure Alex Murdaugh, the lawyer currently charged with financial crimes related to his law practice as well as the murder of his wife and son was "very intelligent" in a book-smart sort of way and he wasn't caught coming out of the door after his crimes, so to speak. But he's behind bars and going to be tried for murdering his wife and son. When we hear from an FBI profiler that this is a highly intelligent, organized perp, that will be another story.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

But she didn’t correct her earlier comment that they were likely sleeping… Very unpopular opinion: I think this meant K wasn’t in her bed - she was in M’s bed.

MOO

Agreed. I believe k was in her own room and M was as well when the attack erupted. It’s been confirmed by the coroner that they were in their beds when the attack occurred, and ended up in the same bed together after being stabbed beyond saving. They both knew it was the end. They supported one another fiercely in life, and also in death. Either M assisted k or vice versa. Mortally wounded and fading, they sought comfort together and crawled into the nearest bed together. This is happening in mere seconds in real time. Chaos and confusion, panic and pandemonium reign supreme in this scenario.

 

[BlueTunes]

Re the white car -

Why don’t LE say we *know* the car was in the area at the time instead of ‘we believe’ it was. It comes off as disingenuous.

JMO

Not disingenuous at all. What likely happened was someone witnessed a car being in the area around that time. LE then helped the witness narrow down the make, model, year etc by showing them pictures. Once LE was confident they had the vehicles description they then go and release it to the public. They have no physical evidence that the car was indeed there so they can’t say they “know” for sure. But LE does “believe” the witness and what he/she saw. This would also explain why they haven’t released the video of the car because they don’t have any.

 

[GhostGhost]

Agreed. I believe k was in her own room and M was as well when the attack erupted. It’s been confirmed by the coroner that they were in their beds when the attack occurred, and ended up in the same bed together after being stabbed beyond saving. They both knew it was the end. They supported one another fiercely in life, and also in death. Either M assisted k or vice versa. Mortally wounded and fading, they sought comfort together and crawled into the nearest bed together. This is happening in mere seconds in real time. Chaos and confusion, panic and pandemonium reign supreme in this scenario.

The Coroner said they were attacked separately and got together in the same bed to die?

,

 

[Lilibet]

[GhostGhost] The Coroner said they were attacked separately and got together in the same bed to die?

I don’t believe the coroner said that K and M got into the same bed to die after being attacked. I think that is a theory of @OckhamsRazor22 …unless a link is provided.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I still don't subscribe to the notion that this killer needed to be some sort of seasoned serial murder veteran or ex-military/special forces individual who lost the plot and decided to take out a house full of college aged individuals in a reasonably rural University community.

When you look at who the victims were, the location of their home, supposed time of the murders and a multitude of other factors, I think it's much more likely they knew their killer. Without needing to build a boogie man preying on young helpless victims and came across the perfect opportunity by chance, I can easily imagine it being someone who flew under the radar so to speak.

I think your point about the killer not being a seasoned murderer or military ninja type could also apply to someone who targeted the house because 5-6 females lived there. He could have known of the women without knowing them as individuals or part a social group. He would not have had to come across the "perfect opportunity by chance" if he were looking for a particular kind of victim. In truth, I hope you're right and this killer is someone connected to the victims; the murders will be a lot easier to solve if that's the case. But as I ponder the remark that the house might have been targeted, what I come up with is the killer wanted a house full of women. And that makes me wonder if E's presence might have saved the other two women if the killer was surprised he was in the house.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

How did blood leak through bedding and down a wall?

The bed is possibly positioned with one or more sides or ends pushed against the wall. After the attack, the amount of blood leaving the body is substantial. Between 4.7-5.7 liters per human. That’s a possible 11.4 liters of fluid between the two of them. It simply seeped and found a way.

I’m curious to know if bullying went on in the frat house and jealousy and anger ensued from there. I do feel there were two perps or two folks on the same psycho wave length.

The Frat house party where E & X spent time before returning at the same time as k and M is most definitely worth checking out with a magnifying glass.

 

[margarita25]

Glad to see the appeal for info about the white Elantra made it to NBC Nightly News. This will reach a lot of people who may not be familiar with this case.

Reporters says around 8:00 “Tonight a police spokesperson telling me that that was based off of multiple tips called into the police.”

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

but would they have the ability to pull this off so well and do four at once? it seems likely that they'e done it before at least, imo.

But she didn’t correct her earlier comment that they were likely sleeping… Very unpopular opinion: I think this meant K wasn’t in her bed - she was in M’s bed.

MOO

Agreed. I believe k was in her own room and M was as well when the attack erupted. It’s been confirmed by the coroner that they were in their beds when the attack occurred, and ended up in the same bed together after being stabbed beyond saving. They both knew it was the end. They supported one another fiercely in life, and also in death. Either M assisted k or vice versa. Mortally wounded and fading, they sought comfort together and crawled into the nearest bed together. This is happening in mere seconds in real time. Chaos and confusion, panic and pandemonium reign supreme in this scenario.

 

[The Observer]

Agreed. I believe k was in her own room and M was as well when the attack erupted. It’s been confirmed by the coroner that they were in their beds when the attack occurred, and ended up in the same bed together after being stabbed beyond saving. They both knew it was the end. They supported one another fiercely in life, and also in death. Either M assisted k or vice versa. Mortally wounded and fading, they sought comfort together and crawled into the nearest bed together. This is happening in mere seconds in real time. Chaos and confusion, panic and pandemonium reign supreme in this scenario.

Goncalves surmised that they died in Mogen's bedroom on the third floor because "there are photos of Kaylee's room with no blood on the bed."

Source.

 

[Lilibet]

It’s been confirmed by the coroner that they were in their beds when the attack occurred, and ended up in the same bed together after being stabbed beyond saving.

Do you have a link to the coroner saying they were in their own beds when attacked and got into the same bed afterward? I must have missed this detail.

 

[Deleted member 110058]

Moscow murders: Prosecutor cites importance of case integrity

The Latah County prosecutor said the concern about having an unbiased jury influences what is being shared publicly about the investigation into the Nov. 13 murders of four University of

dnews.com

 

[PrincessIvy]

I keep thinking about SG saying “tear” to describe the wounds instead of saying cut. A jab saw is designed to penetrate and tear. Anyone in the trades or handyman will have one for drywall penetrations.

https://www.amazon.com/IRWIN-Tools-ProTouch-Drywall-2014100/dp/B000B3CSM4/ref=asc_df_B000B3CSM4/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=242034450866&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5345792306229010391&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001880&hvtargid=pla-679848676720&psc=1

 

[GhostGhost]

Agreed. I believe k was in her own room and M was as well when the attack erupted. It’s been confirmed by the coroner that they were in their beds when the attack occurred, and ended up in the same bed together after being stabbed beyond saving. They both knew it was the end. They supported one another fiercely in life, and also in death. Either M assisted k or vice versa. Mortally wounded and fading, they sought comfort together and crawled into the nearest bed together. This is happening in mere seconds in real time. Chaos and confusion, panic and pandemonium reign supreme in this scenario.

That is Cinematic.


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[PrincessIvy]

“Stab wounds of the liver are relatively benign and the great majority can be satisfactorily treated with simple surgery. Excluding juxtahepatic venous injuries, the mortality and morbidity are due mainly to associated injuries.”

Stab wounds of the liver. An evaluation of 131 consecutive cases - PubMed

The records of 131 consecutive patients treated for liver stab wounds during a 20-year period were reviewed. All were operated on. Bleeding from the liver injury ceased spontaneously before operation in 41% of the cases. The chest, stomach and extremities were the most common sites of associated...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov