ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #3

[KonaHonu]

I don’t think the killer is a student. I don’t believe any roommates or ex boyfriends are involved. I say that because those types have certainly been interviewed by now. They would have cracked. College students, from the suburbs, aren’t able to withstand an hours long interview, with a hardcore, tough as nails homicide investigator, and maintain composure.

College students are smart enough to lawyer up, especially the type that can afford to be in a fraternity.

I think this is going to turn out to be someone within their sphere, not necessarily a student but possibly someone that one of them had interacted with in some way and he became obsessed.

Something not mentioned is that Madison and Kaylee looked a LOT alike. It is possbile the killer targeted one of them, killed the wrong one, realized his mistake then went for the other. Maybe Ethan heard something, got up to investigate, and was killed. Xana heard the struggle, screamed, and he went after her. This does not fit the "all found in bed" statement but I don't think that is 100% correct because there are pictures of blood running down the outside wall of the house. Seems unlikely that would happen if he were on a bed.

 

[Emerald1328]

Ethan’s obituary

Obituary for Ethan Chapin at Hawthorne Funeral Home

Ethan, a triplet, was born first at 443 pm on a beautiful Tuesday evening in October. He was born at Swedish Hospital in Seattle. Maizie arrived shortly after at 444 and Hunter at 445. Our family spent the first year and half living in Olympia at Summit Lake and then

www.hawthornefh.com

 

[cvaldez1975]

I'm not very familiar with blood spatter patterns, but if the victims were murdered in their sleep, how would "lots of blood" get on the wall?

Aya Elamroussi and Veronica Miracle, "‘We’re leaving as fast as we can’: University of Idaho reels with unease days after killing of 4 students and no suspect identified," CNN, 18 November 2022.
<snipped & BBM>
The victims were found on the second and third floors of the home, Idaho State Police Communications Director Aaron Snell told CNN Friday.

Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt told CNN she saw “lots of blood on the wall” when she arrived at the scene. She confirmed there were multiple stab wounds on each body – likely from the same weapon – but would not disclose how many wounds nor where most were located.

GRAPHIS .... if the throat was cut, carotid shoots blood out. if its straight up stabbing, the up and down motion of stabbing would splatter it.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Thoughts on the very narrow time window of 3-4 am for time of death? Electronic footprints, food stomach contents, we do know K&M ate after 1:45 am?

If K was making outgoing calls as late as 2:45 am I'm taking that as LE knowing the crime had not occurred yet, but the bodies weren't discovered until noon the next day so I wonder how they closed the gap down to 3-4 am?

MOO

 

[tokyorose]

This revelation leaves 1 theory left in my mind, JMO

JMO but I have only 2 left in my mind and I really don't like where I think this may be headed.

 

[mysteryfan96]

Tying together dogs and crime scenes, most dogs I know would have "cleaned up" (i.e., destroyed) some of the blood evidence.

Maybe she heard suspicious noises but wasn't sure it warranted a 911 call but still wanted to be on the phone with someone at the time? If the place was known for parties, perhaps there were under 21 year olds known to be drinking there and she didn't want to call the cops just yet and get them in trouble. MOO.

When people have the do not disturb setting on their phone, a caller can get through if they make at least 3 repeated calls within x amount of minutes (that's how it works on several phones I've owned). Maybe she was trying that. People here mentioned why she wouldn't have left a message but maybe she tried, but his VM was full?

This is exactly what I was thinking. Almost certainly if an attack had started or she was sure they were in danger she would have called 911 instead of J. But, I can see a scenario where maybe she thought she heard some noises, either from outside or inside the house. Or maybe she thought she saw someone outside her window. It might not be definitive enough to call 911 and (in her mind) unnecessarily involve the police, but maybe it was scary enough for her to call J, a male she was comfortable with who could reassure her or possibly come over and check things out. I know I’ve been in situations before where I was genuinely on the fence about whether to call police or not, both afraid for my safety but also afraid I was worried over nothing and might risk being embarrassed with a needless 911 call.

 

[stmarysmead]

I know MSM has reported both groups arrived home around 1:45am, but has LE explained how they know this for Ethan/Xana?

Maybe the two survivors were home when they all returned and gave the police this timeline.

 

[Cedarsage]

To me, this does currently look confusing, and I hope LE will clarify.
The "time line map" indicates that X and E only spent one hour at the fraternity party. But that they were home as of 1:45, which does not account for a couple of hours.

To me it sounds like that party wasn’t the primary destination for the evening. Maybe they just wanted to stop by for a little while before moving on to the intended destination. Dinner, a movie, another party maybe?

 

[Manwel]

Good point.

In addition, Not seeing and Not Knowing can be one form...

Ok, the faux Zen aside...

@MassGuy related that the house has a quirky lay out in regards to the lowest level. This could be due to the house being expanded at some point to allow for more rooms / renting students.

In either case, I wonder if one could casually observe the house from one side, and not realize that there were additional rooms on a lower level- Say, perhaps assume that the lower level was a garage? Or, maybe not realizing that the house is say, a type of 'split level'?

This theory would negate the possibility that this person is local or knows this house or the people in it. There's a couple turns you need to make to find it tucked up by an apartment complex, and somewhat blocked by other nearby houses/units.

But, you could, in theory, see the house from the ridge where another road is behind the house. If you entered from that road, or if you came from the apartment complex area, used the glass door by the kitchen as a point of entry, and you had never seen the front of the house before, it's possible you would only think there is an upstairs and a downstairs. They would likely see the banister leading downstairs inside, but I doubt they would expect people down there. They would think laundry/basement.

The fact that two girls were left alone entirely leads me think this wasn't someone who knows the people in the house because they would have wanted to get rid of potential witnesses. At this point, that would explain why the roommates are being heavily protected by LE, or why the chief would say the other day during the press conference, "We never said they were witnesses." Because in case the killer is watching, they want the killer to believe that they never saw or heard anything.

But in reality, one of them seems to have heard/seen something.

 

[Curiosa20]

He doesn’t have a blue checkmark but he’s a local reporter for MSM.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593711666696683520

Again, that response is a non sequitur.
Being bound or taped is about control and restraint, not necessarily because they were taken hostage. And he’s now contradicting the Coroner.
IMO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

That poor friend who she called . Not only did all of his friends get killed but he probably will forever be wondering why she called him so many times and wishing he would have answered .

This is so clearly part of the timeline of the crime. I feel we will have to hear something to clarify. Hopefully, LE will not mum this person.

I know so many of us see it as probable "drunk dialing", which is pretty common (based on our Websleuths audience...ha ha).
It will so valuable to rule it "out", as not significant to the crime.

 

[tokyorose]

I don’t think she was calling for help, she would have called 911.

I wouldn't necessarily assume this. I had a safety conversation with my teenager who admitted she may call a friend or neighbor before the police. I think people worry about being wrong and feeling stupid if they call the police for no reason. MOO

 

[Warwick7]

Again, that response is a non sequitur.
Being bound or taped is about control and restraint, not necessarily because they were taken hostage. And he’s now contradicting the Coroner.
IMO

I'm confused. How is he contradicting the coroner?

 

[Stunned]

The comments about the other 2 housemates are really rubbing me the wrong way.

It would be easy enough to say "we will not discuss the other 2 housemates at this time."

To say "perhaps they are victims, perhaps they are witnesses, perhaps they are the key to this whole thing" is a VERY, VERY strange thing to say in this circumstance.

I hope those two have the support they need right now.

Leaves them kind of vulnerable. Why would LE do that? IMO

 

[PrairieWind]

If the sister got the number from phone records (easy to do) she also may have called the number and heard the outgoing VM message with first name… that’s what I’d do, frankly.

Good point! lol.

 

[Dotta]

"Community members were initially asked to shelter in place for about 40 minutes Sunday before police said they had determined the killings were an “isolated, targeted attack” and that there was no danger to others.

On Wednesday, Fry reversed course.
“We cannot say that there is no threat to the community,” he told reporters.

The individual is still out there,” he said. “We need to be vigilant. We need to watch out for our neighbors. … We need to continue to do that until we can close this off and make an arrest."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/17/idaho-students-killed-explained/

 

[GMS]

Thinking out loud here...based on the "targeted" theory...did the suspect/s camp out stalking the house all night...watching from a protected vantage point? Or did they observe and track the victims moves out in public that night to have a better idea when they arrived home?

According to the released time line, we know EC / XK were away from the residence from at least 8pm and KG / MM were away from the residence from at least 10pm. Was the suspect/s scouting the house prior to the victims leaving so he/she knew they were gone and then waited until they returned?

 

[SuziQ]

I've found the statements made by members of LE to be reckless, like the coroner's and the university's LE spokesperson statement recently about the roommates. I also think LE is dealing with the eight million rumors and misinformation floating around social media. All of those tips have to be investigated and can really impede an investigation. We've seen this recently in other cases. Why I appreciate WS not dealing in rumors and hearsay, fwiw.

I hope LE knows a whole lot more than they are letting on, but I don't have great confidence considering some of those reckless statements going back to the very beginning of the case.

MOO obvs

ITA, everyone in this case needs to zip it. Most LE say nothing. Which is what they should have done regarding the roommates. imo.

 

[Manwel]

Thinking out loud here...based on the "targeted" theory...did the suspect/s camp out stalking the house all night...watching from a protected vantage point? Or did they observe and track the victims moves out in public that night to have a better idea when they arrived home?

According to the released time line, we know EC / XK were away from the residence from at least 8pm and KG / MM were away from the residence from at least 10pm. Was the suspect/s scouting the house prior to the victims leaving so he/she knew they were gone and then waited until they returned?

This has honestly been my theory. Either the girls were monitored and followed home or the house was monitored.

 

[Warwick7]

The comments about the other 2 housemates are really rubbing me the wrong way.

It would be easy enough to say "we will not discuss the other 2 housemates at this time."

To say "perhaps they are victims, perhaps they are witnesses, perhaps they are the key to this whole thing" is a VERY, VERY strange thing to say in this circumstance.

I hope those two have the support they need right now.

BBM
We don't know that it is a strange thing to say, because we don't know all the facts LE holds close to the vest. There could be any number of strategic reasons to say what he did.

Snell made it clear they don't have a suspect. He said no one has been...excluded as a person of interest and/or a suspect.

University of Idaho students were 'likely asleep' before being attacked, police say as search for answers intensifies

The four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed multiple times in their off-campus home were "likely asleep," before they were attacked, Moscow, Idaho, police said in a Friday evening update.

amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org