ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #3

[Mariposa]

I have been looking into the food truck and bar details. The bar seems to close at 2:00 AM which is when they have to stop serving alcohol in Idaho. That is consistent with the timeline of being at the food truck just before 2:00 and quite a few people around there.

This seems to be the truck: Grub Wandering Kitchen

I read somewhere that their truck was near the Garden Lounge which can be seen in the background. I also read Maddie ordered carbonara. But if you look at the menu there is no carbonara. Have I missed something?

I actually looked for carbonara on the menu too! Maybe it was a special not on the regular menu. The menu linked above shows a special mac for this weeks dates Nov 16-18.

 

[Perch]

The fact that she made 6 calls so late is very interesting . Yes it could have been drunk dialing but it needs to be noted . If it wasn’t drunk dialing and they were calling because something was concerning them it makes me think maybe it was someone they kind of knew that was causing a commotion. They weren’t scared enough to call police but they felt uncomfortable and she was trying to call J to let him know . Maybe someone was there and wouldn’t leave ? Was upset about something and arguing . Causing kaylee to make these phone calls . Maybe the person left angry and didn’t really leave . Waited till lights went out , came back in and revenge killed . Moo

I'm no expert, but this is what my gut says:

Someone unknown to any of the victims (or the other 2 housemates who were not physically harmed) was stalking at least one of them, unbeknownst to any/all of the victims.

I think this person has killed before, likely with the same weapon that was used. This is not the kind of weapon an inexperienced or opportunist killer chooses at random - and is successful with! - to commit their first (4) murder (2). They successfully killed 4 young adults (i.e. prime physical condition) with a knife. IMO, they knew exactly what they were doing, how it would feel to do it, how much pressure to use, how much time it would take, etc.

Also possible they've used that knife to cut food (or other bodies - sorry! - after prior murders). I think this knife is the perpetrator's companion!

Either this is their weapon of choice (my main theory) OR the perp is barred from purchasing a firearm and that's why they chose the knife. If the latter, this, to me, indicates the perpetrator is likely a loner - because if they had other nefarious friends who might have guns, someone could give/loan them a gun or they'd steal/borrow it.)

Knives are more difficult to trace than guns because there are no bullet casings left behind. The killer knew this.

When LE says it was a targeted crime, I think that means they believe the perpetrator chose a person to attack, watched them, stalked them (probably unnoticed), planned the attack including how to get away.

I think they are indicating that there's not much of a risk the perpetrator will kill someone randomly - but that doesn't mean they don't have other PLANNED targets in town.


Having stalked them, I think the perpetrator knew there would be multiple people in the home and was prepared to kill any/all of them. But I think they killed ONLY those that they'd witnessed coming back to the house during those early morning hours. I imagine the killer lurked nearby in the wooded area starting sometime after dark, watched as the couple and the two friends returned home from hanging out and attacked them because they saw them/knew they were in the house.

Personally, I'm convinced that the other 2 housemates were in the house/asleep from much earlier in the night and weren't killed simply because the killer did not see them THAT night. I think the killer knew for a fact that those 4 were home because they were watching the house but didn't bother to search for additional housemates.

As creepy as this is, I think it's also possible they did this to scare the other housemates, as in they killed these 4 to send a message to one of the other 2 (who is their REAL target - psychologically).

This resonates with me. This perp had rage but IMO the rage was more generic against woman or perceived “have it all handed to them” popular university students or a mix. I believe we should consider the rage wasn’t specifically these victims but what they stood for to this perpetrator. It was also well planned once he chose the opportunity. IMO given what we know he likely was well trained or experienced in killing with a large knife. He knew how to quickly silence and disable victims. Likely wore thick gloves (we may not find DNA as these were likely protective of cuts) and outer clothing that could be quickly removed. He did this at the house most likely and bagged the clothes to take with him. He did not dispose of the knife - it is indeed part of his identity.
This is a very angry person and there is likely little connection directly to these victims. Something set him off we don’t know what but it isn’t necessarily something these victims did. They were an opportunity to release the rage.
IMO after 4 victims he was done whether he knew there were others in the house or not, didn’t matter at that point. He was done and out.
IMO this could be a hard person to find.

 

[Curiosa20]

You would think this suspect either lives alone or is from a different state . Everyone by now is on high alert in Idaho and if someone had wounds on them or was acting strange they would have immediately be suspicious. People the next days would be paying attention to people with scratches, wasn’t home that night , came home at a weird hour, acting nervous etc . If it was someone their age I’m sure they do not live alone . Moo

It’s what- 9 miles to Washington? And Idaho in particular has long been a settlement area for hard core survivalists, militia organizations and extreme ideology cults that have prospered and become well established, so there could be many places to hide or blend in. Cuts and scratches might not be a flag for many. It’s hunting season for a variety of birds and game.
There’s alot of wilderness, too, for living off the grid or just blending in within a town or the compound of any number of alternate reality groups or communities. IMO

 

[FruitTingles]

Have you seen the amount of resources they're using here?

Moscow Police Department:
• 4 Detectives
• 24 Patrol Officers
• 5 Support Staff
Federal Bureau of In Investigators:
• 22 investigators in Moscow
• 20 assigned agents located out of Treasure Valley, ID, Salt Lake City, Utah, and West Virginia
• 2 Behavior Analysis Unit
Idaho State Police:
• 20 investigators
• 15 troopers
• Public Information Officer
• ISP Forensics Services and mobile crime scene team
• 15 uniformed troopers to assist with community patrols

It is comforting to see that a large presence of FBI & BAU is involved in the investigation.

 

[KonaHonu]

I actually looked for carbonara on the menu too! Maybe it was a special not on the regular menu. The menu linked above shows a special mac for this weeks dates Nov 16-18.

I saw that. I assumed it was because few students would be around because of Thanksgiving Break, or because of the stabbings. And I did consider the possibility of a special.

 

[uburoi1]

What are everyone's thoughts re E and X and the sp(s) motives? I seriously do not think they were the target and they just happened to be in the right room at a good location where the sp might have entered through the kitchen sliding doors. JMO

I think the motive was revenge and that all four were targets -- no collateral damage.

 

[MomGN2BMD]

I feel like the perpetrator could very well be a jealous woman. Who knows.

I agree. The rage and extremism displayed is one I stereotypically associate with female killers. This is also why I have not let go of my initial gut response of wondering if one or both...but more likely one potentially recruiting or coercing the other...could ultimately be responsible. IF a female was responsible, it would be one intimately close to one or more of the victims, IMO. To me, it's the only way the rage could grow and evolve to a level making a seemingly incapable party capable of such acts. JMO.

 

[Oregonmama]

I saw that. I assumed it was because few students would be around because of Thanksgiving Break, or because of the stabbings. And I did consider the possibility of a special.

Schools and colleges always clean out their freezers and pantry's b4 a break and anticipate low student turnout for dining in the cafeterias

 

[InternetGhost91]

I think the motive was revenge and that all four were targets -- no collateral damage.

Could someone (a peer) have a grudge because they were jealous of Kaylee’s success or had a point to make about sororities?

 

[NeverPersonal]

IMO i have to say that despite the bumbling nature of local police have handled the press, the FBI is involved and i think that if they have a suspect they could be advised to keep saying there's no POI or suspect. same with the autopsies, they may have something and also they probably do not want to divulge such gruesome imagery to the public in respect to the families.

welcome to websleuths!

 

[Curiosa20]

Do we know if there have there been any reports that the Uber driver has been interviewed by LE?

I saw something a few days ago about him being interviewed and providing data and receipts. I’ll see if I can find it. It’s hard to post and reply now with so much activity here.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I have been baffled by the statement yesterday by the Chief PD. He said, I paraphrase, they know it was a targeted attack by what was left behind at the scene. What could that be?

Maybe one of the girls really did have a stalker. The item left behind could have been a photo or something that the stalker had of her, like one you'd find in a shrine?

MOO.

 

[mysteryfan96]

I agree but I think M was the target too JMO

Quite possible. That would be my second guess.

 

[sleuth_truths]

Thank goodness MPD provided this update.

At this time in the investigation, detectives do not believe the two surviving roommates or the male in the Grub Truck surveillance video are involved in this crime.

IMO, this could and should have been done much sooner than now.

 

[uburoi1]

Could someone (a peer) have a grudge because they were jealous of Kaylee’s success or had a point to make about sororities?

No, I don't think so. But discussing motive at this point draws us into an area which might run afoul of WS's TOS.

 

[Tricia]

11/18/22
WE GO LIVE AT 10:30 EASTERN.
We will discuss what is happening in the investigation into the death of 4 students in Idaho
Joseph Scott Morgan will be here next week to discuss Debbie Collier. I have a quick message from him I will share with you.
Theranos founder is now a convicted felon and will serve over 11 years. Wait until you hear what people who support her are saying.
See you at 10:30 Eastern.

 

[Oregonmama]

Could someone (a peer) have a grudge because they were jealous of Kaylee’s success or had a point to make about sororities?

I saw first hand when I was in college how rejections from rushing greek houses could be hard for some. I thought of this angle early on but I don't think its high on the list. But I do think a person or persons were jealous of K and M for their own reasons and hopefully we will hear about that soon. JMO

 

[Mariposa]

My best guess still hasn’t changed with even more news being released:

- Kaylee was the target/object of the rage and Madison and especially Ethan and Xana were killed because they got in the way. A lot seems to center around Kaylee. She was described as someone everyone adored and was truly special. She was the one moving away. And she was the one who placed multiple phone calls very shortly before she was killed.

- Killer likely entered on the 2nd (main) floor via the keypad door or one of the two sliding doors. The sliding door entry might very well have necessitated his killing of Ethan and Xana if they were in the kitchen at the time or he came in via the sliding door in their bedroom. Ethan and Xana would have been in his way no matter what, but he had to go out of his way to kill the other two upstairs. That says to me he really wanted one or both of them dead.

- Killer was someone they all knew, had interacted with, but were probably not super close with… maybe a neighbor, classmate, restaurant customer, friend of a friend, or frequent party-goer at their house

- Two other roommates weren’t killed due to the killer not being aware they were downstairs or because their door was locked. Or it’s possible he didn’t WANT to kill anyone except for his target, and so he bypassed them altogether because they didn’t get in his way.

- Kaylee moving away soon played a factor in the killer’s decision to strike now before she was gone for good

- The two other roommates are mentioned as “key” or in vague/confusing terms by police because they knew the killer and possibly could have even interacted with him that very day (what if he actually came over as part of a group earlier that night and hung out with the girls, maybe even unlocking doors or windows for his return later). Maybe the police are still even trying to determine if they assisted the killer in any way, thus the confusing language regarding their status as suspects. But I truly believe they are innocent and at absolute MOST might have unwillingly and unknowingly aided the killer somehow. They’re likely terrified to talk regardless of what happened. Their survivor guilt will be just awful.

I respect your theory but of the 4 victims Kaylee is of course not the only one described as truly special, all 4 sound like they were well loved. Part of why we know so much about Kaylee is that her sister has been very vocal about sharing what she had uncovered about Kaylee’s last activities and routines.

So just because we know Kaylee may have used her phone to call someone multiple times shortly before the murder is estimated to occur, does not mean that the other 3 were not using their phones. Just that Kaylee’s sister chose to disclose that to the media while nothing about the other victims’ phone activity in that time frame has been disclosed.

 

[whiskers]

Am I remiss to think that your average college student wouldn’t even know how to use a knife. Most kids I know in this age bracket barely know how to cook, let alone, how to maneuver a massive knife. Unless they had hunting skills. I’m not putting down people in this age bracket. To me, it simply seems a crime committed by someone out of their age bracket.

 

[Curiosa20]

I'm guessing the 2 surviving housemates got up on Sunday morning, went about their business and then left the house using the main front door - while the murdered 4 were upstairs on the 2nd and 3rd floors. The 2 surviving housemates probably assumed the other 4 were upstairs still sleeping.

Except that LE says they were there when arriving for the 911 call and an open door.