ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #3

[CSIDreamer]

I saw the pictures, but is it really blood? Has LE confirmed that it is blood? If I have a spill in my garage, and it runs to the outside, it is a seeping, staining, not dripping pattern. MOO

I'm with you and not really thinking it's blood. For that much blood to run outside, someone would need to bleed out (which hasn't been disproven). If I recall, it was pretty red. That picture would have been taken hours and it should have discolored I would think. Who knows. JMO

 

[sleuth_truths]

I agree but there are cases:

Pennsylvania wife ambushes husband's lover and kills herself​

https://www.bbc.com › world-us-canada-43899187





Apr 26, 2018 — Jennair Gerardot, 48, broke into the house of Meredith Chapman, 33, and ambushed her as she returned home on Monday evening. Investigators say ...

and the astronaut diaper case:

Astronaut Love Triangle: Lisa Nowak 'Is Finally at Peace' 15 ...​

https://people.com › crime › astronaut-love-triangle-lisa...





Jun 29, 2022 — Shipman had recently begun dating Bill Oefelein, an astronaut who had once dated Nowak.

but statitically, these are rare, and I do not know of one that was not really "targeted"... there is the cyclist case still with its own thread here somewhere

Arrest Made in Murder of Pro Cyclist Anna Moriah Wilson​

https://people.com › crime › feds-arrest-kaitlin-marie-ar...





Jun 30, 2022 — Kaitlin Marie Armstrong will be deported and returned to the U.S., where she's accused of killing Anna Moriah Wilson.

There are always exceptions, of course. Yes, women can & have killed. The OP's statement is still accurate.

 

[NeverPersonal]

I get what you are saying but many cases start at the scene. I'm just going to keep an open mind. JMO

the cops have officially said the two roommates are not considered suspects

At this time in the investigation, detectives do not believe the two surviving roommates or the male in the Grub Truck surveillance video are involved in this crime.

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[FruitTingles]

Interesting what Kaylee’s sister says here regarding the security code for the home..

“Goncalves’ sister <modsnip> told ABC World News Tonight there was a keypad door lock on the door and “my sister was always a door locker.”

But, the sister added, “This was the party house, and it’s been generations, so I won’t say they were very private with that code.”


'We're leaving as fast as we can': University of Idaho reels with unease days after killing of 4 students and no suspect identified | CNN

Xana’s father, Jeffrey Kernodle, also said this yesterday about the door code: “The door locks with a number code. Every time you go, you have to go around the house because of the number code so they either knew that or went around and maybe found the slider door open,” he said.

‘She’s a tough kid’: Avondale father says University of Idaho student killed fought her attacker

The father is now struggling to understand how this could have happened.

www.azfamily.com

 

[Oregonmama]

the cops have officially said the two roommates are not considered suspects

At this time in the investigation, detectives do not believe the two surviving roommates or the male in the Grub Truck surveillance video are involved in this crime.

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They have said conflicting statements regarding this. Nothing is off the table yet, JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

As much as I admire and respect you, that isn't was LE stated. LE stated no one was excluded at POI or suspects.

University of Idaho students were 'likely asleep' before being attacked, police say as search for answers intensifies | CNN

The four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed multiple times in their off-campus home were "likely asleep," before they were attacked, Moscow, Idaho, police said in a Friday evening update.

www.cnn.com

The feeling is mutual BAM No worries, we all feel what we feel and I hope they know details about things that may have happened in the time prior to the murders that can help LE.

I just would hate to think what these poor girls are going through emotionally after such a vicious crime. I'm sure they are an emotional wreck and probably scared to death. Survivors guilt/PTSD may certainly present a problem in the future for them as well.

Such a sad and tragic thing for all of these lovely, young women and E.

MOO

 

[fridaybaker]

Moscow: Police release map of victims' path the night four university students were murdered, police identify man in food truck video​

Police have released a map of the whereabouts of the University of Idaho victims to encourage those with information about that night to contact law enforcement.

www.ktvb.com

Guy at the food truck in the hoodie is “not a suspect or person of interest at this time”.

Here’s my question: This guy came into the food truck area at the same time as the women. They all stayed for at least 10 minutes. Hoodie-guy stands around looking nonchalant, appearing to occasionally make small talk with another guy there who was waiting for food. Every once in a while he looks over at the women, then when he sees that they’ve left, he immediately leaves as well.

HE NEVER ORDERS FOOD. Why?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Wow, just when I thought I couldn't be more shocked. This is a communications nightmare. This Snell character, the comm director, is supposed to be a professional? How is he working in communications? That's just a blunder like no other in recent memory.

 

[Laura930]

What??!

1. "Potentially they are witnesses,

2. potentially they are victims,” Snell said in an interview with ABC’s Kayna Whitworth.

3. “Potentially they’re the key to this whole thing.

4. "Snell said no one has been “included or excluded as a person of interest and/or a suspect."

5. Investigators hope the roommates will help them “figure out what occurred and why. That’s their story to tell,” he said.

University of Idaho students were 'likely asleep' before being attacked, police say as search for answers intensifies | CNN

The four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed multiple times in their off-campus home were "likely asleep," before they were attacked, Moscow, Idaho, police said in a Friday evening update.

www.cnn.com

Hi Warwick 7,

Question: For number 5 did you by any chance see the video where Snell said “figure out what occurred and why. That’s their story to tell”. I can’t find it in any of the interviews that Kayna Whitworth posted? CNN manipulated the interview a bit In their version of the story.

In the ABC interview Kayna Whitworth states “potentially they are the key to this whole thing” and Adam Snell agrees and repeats it back to her, yes potentially they are the key. She said it first and he repeats it (interview linked below).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593416198116454401

Does anyone else think this kind of leading statement is unusual for a reporter unless she has some inside information?

It is plausible, given the layout of the house that they were passed out and did not hear anything. I had a fire in my apartment building 2 floors down and slept through it, thank god they got it contained to that floor, one tenant and his dog died in the fire. My neighbors could not believe I did not hear anything but I sleep with a loud air conditioner and a noise machine.

That being said, for the communications director of the state police to agree they are the key, I think is puzzling as it completely eliminates a random druggie or robbery gone wrong. I think a more experienced spokesman would have ducked that question until the police had more answers. And his request for neighborhood video - I would have thought the police would have already canvased the entire neighhorhood house by house to see if there were cameras as some of the footage may only be a stored for a limited time. Unless of course they are a small force and just don’t have the manpower.

I was also surprised Kayna did not ask how are the girls are doing given the circumstances, where are the girls now, or have they gone home?

I may be overthinking it! thoughts?

P.S. Why hasn’t any reporter been able to get to the bottom of the 911 call?

 

[Oregonmama]

Wow, just when I thought I couldn't be more shocked. This is a communications nightmare. This Snell character, the comm director, is supposed to be a professional? How is he working in communications? That's just a blunder like no other in recent memory.

It reminds me of the Delphi murder investigation

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Update here:

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Moscow Homicide Update
November 18, 2022 4:40 PM

MOSCOW, Idaho – The Moscow Police Department is providing the following information to update the public on the known facts surrounding the four murders that occurred on November 13th in Moscow, Idaho.

On the evening of November 12th, Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen were at a local bar called The Corner Club at 202 N. Main Street, in downtown Moscow, between 10 p.m. and 1:30 a.m. on November 13th. At approximately 1:40 a.m., Kaylee and Madison were seen on video at a local food vendor called the “Grub Truck” at 318 S. Main Street and used Uber from downtown to arrive at their 1122 King Road residence at 1:45 a.m.

Investigators have determined that Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were seen at the Sigma Chi house on the University of Idaho Campus at 735 Nez Perce Drive. At approximately 1:45 a.m., Ethan and Xana are believed to have returned to the residence at 1122 King Road. It was previously reported that Ethan resided at the home; however, it has been determined that he was only visiting. Two other roommates were at the residence that night.

On November 13th, at 11:58 a.m., officers responded to the residence after a 911 call reported an unconscious individual. Upon arrival, officers discovered Kaylee, Madison, Xana, and Ethan deceased inside the residence.

Autopsies were conducted on November 17th. The Latah County Coroner confirmed the identity of the four murdered individuals and their cause and manner of death as homicide by stabbing. The coroner stated that the four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds, and each was stabbed multiple times. There was no sign of sexual assault.

At this time in the investigation, detectives do not believe the two surviving roommates or the male in the Grub Truck surveillance video are involved in this crime. Additionally, online reports of the victims being tied and gagged are not accurate. The identity of the 911 caller has not been released.

As part of the investigation, detectives seized the contents of three dumpsters on King Road to locate possible evidence. Additionally, detectives have contacted local businesses to determine if a fixed-blade knife had been recently purchased.

At the time of this release, detectives have received nearly 500 tips which are being processed, investigated, and cleared. Thirty-eight interviews have been conducted with individuals who may have information about the murders. Anyone with information about this crime is asked to call 208-883-7180 or tipline@ci.moscow.id.us.

The Moscow Police Department is utilizing assistance from the Idaho State Police, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Latah County Sheriff’s Office.

Moscow Police Department:
• 4 Detectives
• 24 Patrol Officers
• 5 Support Staff
Federal Bureau of In Investigators:
• 22 investigators in Moscow
• 20 assigned agents located out of Treasure Valley, ID, Salt Lake City, Utah, and West Virginia
• 2 Behavior Analysis Unit
Idaho State Police:
• 20 investigators
• 15 troopers
• Public Information Officer
• ISP Forensics Services and mobile crime scene team
• 15 uniformed troopers to assist with community patrols

Currently, there are no suspects in custody, and the weapon has not been found.

Anyone who observed suspicious behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders, is asked to call the Tip Line at 208-883-7180 or email tipline@ci.moscow.id.us.
The Moscow Police Department thanks our community for their continued support, understanding of the limited information we can share, and patience during this difficult time.

“[FBI] agents located out of … West Virginia (in addition to Treasure Valley, ID, Salt Lake City, Utah and 2 Behavior Analysis Unit)” is interesting, IMO. I didn’t think anyone had family there?

 

[margarita25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593771525546848256

 

[tara83]

Wow, just when I thought I couldn't be more shocked. This is a communications nightmare. This Snell character, the comm director, is supposed to be a professional? How is he working in communications? That's just a blunder like no other in recent memory.

If he's not careful he's going to face some lawsuits.Between him and the too chatty coroner they are making this case appear to be a mess.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

That's awful. He should have said No Comment. IMO. If they are suspects, that's not how you get them to talk.

And if the girls are innocent, it's another Richard Jewell situation. I just can't with the incompetence of the comm team.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

i truly do not believe they are "suspects". I believe LE is just using "suspect vagueness" to try to disarm the killer, to some degree.

If killer thinks that the roommates are possible suspects, killer could possibly feel some bit of "relaxation".

But at what expense? They're casting suspicion on two innocent young women in that scenario. That's not ok.

 

[BeSweets]

MOD NOTE:

Thread is reopened. Please post within Websleuths' TOS. If you need a refresher about what that means, the links in my signature are where you need to look.

In general:

Websleuths deals in facts, and facts require LINKS from approved sources. Approved sources are mainstream media and law enforcement sources. Approved sources are NOT something somebody said on social media.

The social media of the victims is allowed. The social media of their families and friends are not.

In specific:

People other than the victims . . . any discussion is limited to what is in MSM, and use initials only.

LE has not announced a POI. Websleuths' TOS means that nobody can be treated as a POI or suspect until LE says so. Non-negotiable, zero tolerance. Timeouts will be issued for breaking this rule.

Brought forward.
Let’s keep the forum open.

 

[Oregonmama]

This is a better statement for clarification and much needed so other theories can be explored....

At this time in the investigation, detectives do not believe the two surviving roommates or the male in the Grub Truck surveillance video are involved in this crime. Additionally, online reports of the victims being tied and gagged are not accurate. The identity of the 911 caller has not been released.

 

[Erutan]

To be far it has been really hard to track exactly where LE stands on anything. Snell made the boldest statement that says anyone could be a suspect. Chief Fry hemmed and hawed over that part.

bolding mine.
Agreed.
Part of what this discussion is about is to gather evidence and consider all possibilities.
LE didn't say they have cleared everyone.
But they also said they feel the immediate residents weren't involved.
It's natural for sleuther's to consider various options.
The most recent statements make me wonder exactly what LE know ?
I believe they have a lot that they're not revealing !
Imo.

 

[mysteryfan96]

My best guess still hasn’t changed with even more news being released:

- Kaylee was the target/object of the rage and Madison and especially Ethan and Xana were killed because they got in the way. A lot seems to center around Kaylee. She was described as someone everyone adored and was truly special. She was the one moving away. And she was the one who placed multiple phone calls very shortly before she was killed.

- Killer likely entered on the 2nd (main) floor via the keypad door or one of the two sliding doors. The sliding door entry might very well have necessitated his killing of Ethan and Xana if they were in the kitchen at the time or he came in via the sliding door in their bedroom. Ethan and Xana would have been in his way no matter what, but he had to go out of his way to kill the other two upstairs. That says to me he really wanted one or both of them dead.

- Killer was someone they all knew, had interacted with, but were probably not super close with… maybe a neighbor, classmate, restaurant customer, friend of a friend, or frequent party-goer at their house

- Two other roommates weren’t killed due to the killer not being aware they were downstairs or because their door was locked. Or it’s possible he didn’t WANT to kill anyone except for his target, and so he bypassed them altogether because they didn’t get in his way.

- Kaylee moving away soon played a factor in the killer’s decision to strike now before she was gone for good

- The two other roommates are mentioned as “key” or in vague/confusing terms by police because they knew the killer and possibly could have even interacted with him that very day (what if he actually came over as part of a group earlier that night and hung out with the girls, maybe even unlocking doors or windows for his return later). Maybe the police are still even trying to determine if they assisted the killer in any way, thus the confusing language regarding their status as suspects. But I truly believe they are innocent and at absolute MOST might have unwillingly and unknowingly aided the killer somehow. They’re likely terrified to talk regardless of what happened. Their survivor guilt will be just awful.

 

[layer]

The way LE is handling this case reminds me very much of the way the Delphi LE worked. Small towns are just not well equipped for things like this.