ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #3

[LaborDayRN]

Quick question. I noticed that in many posts here people believe that Kaylee was the primary target. What leads to that belief?

 

[NeverPersonal]

I’m very confused by this “private party” ride home thing. You’d think LE would’ve known days ago if the girls came home in an Uber or not. That’d be one of the very first things you’d look at

Well, we all know that cops oftentimes don't release their info right away

 

[NeverPersonal]

Quick question. I noticed that in many posts here people believe that Kaylee was the primary target. What leads to that belief?

I think her social media presence. It was discussed about 10? pages back

 

[KonaHonu]

I have had calls where people were too freaked out to go check. Cant really make them go check either. One of the first questions asked is if they are conscious and breathing. Its been a few years, I don't think there was anything except for overdoses that would change the CPR being started or how it was done, but that may have changed and or this department could not use the same system. But yes, if they were to check and they were not breathing normally CPR would be started. Sorry just FYI, but a question that could make CPR not be an option would be if they were cold to the touch or stiff that would have them step away and wait. I dont think they would assume anyone was deceased until a medic was able to get there and confirm. Just my experience and opinion.

There are a few "prehospital signs of death" that many jurisdictions recognize and, as an EMR/EMT/Paramedic allow you to legally stop treatment. A couple of examples are decoposition, decapitation, burned beyond recognition, lividity, and rigidity. Absent those signs, once you start treatment you are obligated to continue until you hand off care to someone equally or higher qualified or you are too physically exhausted to continue.

 

[Mrsgintexas]

How would her sister know who she called unless she actually called her.. .or had her cell phone? Doesn't make sense to me that the sister would know this unless tried to call her.

My college kid is on my phone plan and it would be very easy to look at the bill and see who was called. Mine also uses my DoorDash and Uber apps for meals and rides. MOO is her sister looked at her account and did her own sleuthing.

 

[ObsessedNightOwl]

Respectfully, can you elaborate on why you think the roommates should not be considered suspects? I remember from my college days how mad some girls could get when they misunderstood a roommate issue or didn't ask for clarification and just internally fumed inside. If a person is angry enough and has thoughts such as killing, the individual would act if that's what they chose. JMO

I can definitely see that happening with one roommate where you have some misunderstanding or conflict simmering for a long time and then boils over into some type of violent action (not implying that is what happened in this case, but just making a genreal observation of roomate relations). However, in this case you have the two surviving roommates that are said to have been present in the house at the time of the murders. Doubtful they would have the same issue with others in the house and then acted together in committing the murders. I guess my point is: one roommate, possibly, but tow roommates acting together is doubtful. Again, just MOO.

 

[KonaHonu]

Reasons to call J, IMO, theories only:

1. You're drunk and it seems funny to deluge him with calls.

2. You're *really* drunk, you're not okay, and you're the kind that freaks out when you're that far gone. I had a friend like this in undergrad. Your friend tries to call to explain, you start calling again, but you pass out or something happens.

3. There is someone there being annoying that J is closer friends with. You don't consider it a 9-1-1 situation because you don't think of that person as dangerous, but you want them gone so you can eat and pass out, and you think J can talk to the person, maybe come get them, etc.

If we are being honest here we need to include:

- You are lonely
- You are horny
- You want more alcohol/pot delivered

Please don't take that as victim shaming. I see no shame in any of those.

 

[whitelilac]

Quick question. I noticed that in many posts here people believe that Kaylee was the primary target. What leads to that belief?

Some have theorized that she had a stalker or someone who was rejected by her, and the fact that she was leaving the area for a job provoked this person to attack her before she "got away".

 

[NWguy22]

Quick question. I noticed that in many posts here people believe that Kaylee was the primary target. What leads to that belief?

One assumption seems to be she got a job and a new car and was leaving soon, to start a job in Texas around the first of the year. So a person following her might’ve viewed it as a last chance to act

 

[nocturnes]

The way you work a criminal case is not to just ask who did it? You also ask who could not possibly have done it? Who can we prove was in Florida, in the hospital having open heart surgery, in jail, at work and on camera, etc.? Everyone is a suspect. Scratch out their names, from your list, as you confirm they could not possibly have been present, for whatever reason.

Of course, you also ask who could have had a reason to harm this person? Who had an opportunity? Who owned the type of weapon used in a particular crime? Who has said negative things about the victim recently? Murder is usually one of the easiest crimes to solve. Notice, I said usually.

Often an arrest is made at the scene, nearby, or some place else within hours. I’ve driven up on scenes and found the perpetrator waiting for us, crying his eyes out.

All that aside, police in Idaho, just like everywhere else, know everything I just said. They have knocked on a lot of doors. They’ve taken thousands of phone calls from people well meaning people, trying to help.

The police are exhausted and totally worn out. They’ve had very little sleep. They are eating unhealthy junk and drinking a lot of coffee. This is hard on them physically and emotionally. They’ve seen things that no person should ever have to see. Those images will haunt them forever. Those images are permanently burned in their minds.

This happened almost a week ago. I’ll bet my life savings that everyone in their circle of friends, the creepy kid in their English class and the guys the girls went to their junior high dance with, have been interviewed. I feel if this was someone they knew, the walls would have been closed in, by now. Just my personal opinion.

Autopsy results answer a lot of questions. In homicide cases I’ve worked, where the victim was a female, I always wanted to know if she was pregnant? Other things such as the presence of alcohol and drugs are important as well. The list goes on and on.

My gut tells me this is a stranger on stranger crime. The longer this drags on, the stronger I will feel that way. It’s my opinion that an arrest would have already been made, if the victims knew the perpetrator.

Food for thought for everyone thinking that this must be someone known to one of the victims because of the level of rage: this happened just this year that a teen woke up in the middle of the night wanting to hurt someone. Started walking around and checking doors and then attacked a couple in a house after they forgot to lock their front door that night. Very troubling. We live in a fallen world. Also this couple had a son that slept through the entire attack.

Utah teen who stabbed sleeping couple woke up wanting to hurt someone, charges say

A 15-year-old boy accused of entering a Taylorsville home at random and stabbing a couple in their bed told police he woke up early that morning wanting to "hurt someone," according to court records.

ksltv.com

 

[Curiosa20]

Quick question. I noticed that in many posts here people believe that Kaylee was the primary target. What leads to that belief?

There is some bias and her intense social media activity.

 

[BeSweets]

There is no blanket statement for "all" of a group of people. I've met well functioning people struggling with addiction who were high achieving perfectionists, and not sloppy at all.

This is the succession of the conversation. A manic person on methampethmines is what was in question. I used the term active addict. I’m also a recovering addict so I care quite a bit about this topic and try to choose my words carefully, along with attempting to debunk a lot of the easily thrown blanketed statements that are said in regards to drugs and those who do them.

Wouldn't shock me it was someone manic on meth.

I believe it was premeditated targeted murder. I also think the killer was more than likely was targeting M or K, or both. I don't think the killer went in the house expecting to kill 4 people though.

But manic on meth and premeditated targeted murder don't go together. One is messy and spontaneous and rooted in someone not being of sound mind and the other is someone planning and organizing.

Agreed. An actively using addict would have been way more sloppy and wouldn’t have been able to think of all the logistics to get in and out unseen and to stay that way. IMO

Edited

 

[William Goat]

Quick question. I noticed that in many posts here people believe that Kaylee was the primary target. What leads to that belief?

I think part of it is from people seeing the food truck video right off the bat and thinking K & M were being followed. I think the killer targeted K or M because I don't belive they would want to take on E if they didn't have to. Killers are cowards who need to control the situation. I think E & X were probably collateral damage.

 

[Manwel]

I did a search through the Murder Accountability Project and was able to find the following:

* Sandra Ladd, 71, homicide in home, stab wounds to torso, Washougal, WA, Summer 2020

No arrests, no suspects, and someone placed a 911 call saying there was a deceased person in the home but police wouldn't share who that caller was or what they said.

I found another from 2016.

* Dorothy Ashley, Springfield, OR, August 2016, stabbing according to Murder Accountability Project, police declined to ever state her cause of death publicly, cited it as a "personal" attack, found dead in her home. Found by son who came to see her. No suspects, no leads, no arrests.

 

[Karin1974]

My issue with this theory is they never got a call off to 911? I could see initially calling J instead but when the killer busts into your room wielding a bloody knife, maybe it’s time to call the police instead.

I actually tried to imagine this & thought, who’s got time to look down at their phone & call a different number? Me personally, I’m frantically hitting redial. MOO

 

[technicallymissing]

This was actually my first thought after I read the fact that something was left at the scene that pointed to this being targeted. I didn't want to mention it because it's so awful and maybe too out there.

But the fact that one officer needed time off and others are being offered counseling tells me that this crime was particularly savage, (as if 4 stabbed young people is not enough), with something extra awful being a component here. Wasn't it reported there was even blood splatter on the ceiling?

So so tragic and senseless ......

To be fair, I think particularly to a small-town cop, seeing 4 young people (barely out of their teens!) dead from being stabbed multiple times could certainly be enough to require some counseling/time off. Not to be too graphic but for all we know there could have been some facial wounds, etc. Plenty of visually disturbing damage can be done on a human body with a "big knife" without any writing in blood etc... I mean, the coroner said that these were the first deaths by stabbing she'd ever worked on. That definitely gave me some perspective into what type of town Moscow is.

 

[Russian Blue]

The comments about the other 2 housemates are really rubbing me the wrong way.

It would be easy enough to say "we will not discuss the other 2 housemates at this time."

To say "perhaps they are victims, perhaps they are witnesses, perhaps they are the key to this whole thing" is a VERY, VERY strange thing to say in this circumstance.

I hope those two have the support they need right now.

I think the statement LE made about the two roomates is strategic. Especially that they may be potential witnesses sends a message.

 

[margarita25]

Shot of top level at :38

 

[MassGuy]

From DailyMail, "Police in Idaho are hunting for the person who gave two of the four murdered students a ride home shortly before they were killed"

I am beyond confused. I could've sworn that Kaylee's sister said in her interview that the driver that dropped them off was vetted. Am I missing something?

Cops hunting killer of four Idaho students say two were driven home

Two of the four murdered Idaho students - Madison Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves - were given a lift home in the early hours of Sunday, shortly before they were killed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

You're not missing anything, this is the Daily Mail being the Daily Mail.

They say that cops are hunting some mystery driver, yet cite no source. This particular reporter has written multiple stories today alone (on other subjects), and is just aggregating reporting from other outlets.

It's garbage.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

UI students were found dead in their beds, may have been sleeping when attacked, coroner says

Four University of Idaho students killed Sunday in a home near the Moscow campus were found dead in their beds and were likely asleep when they were attacked, according to the Latah County coroner.

www.spokesman.com

….

On behalf of the Spokane County Medical Examiner’s Office, I would like to extend condolences to the loved ones of these young people and to everyone impacted by this terrible event,” Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Veena Singh said in a news release.
….
Latah County Prosecuting Attorney Bill Thompson said search warrant documents from the investigation are sealed. He said they will likely remain sealed until the investigation is complete.
….

A candlelight vigil for the slain students is scheduled for 5 p.m. Nov. 30 on the east lawn of the Administration Building on the Moscow campus, according to the university’s Facebook page. Those who cannot attend are encouraged to light a candle, turn on stadium lights or hold a moment of silence. Use #VandalStrong or tag @uidaho in social media posts, the post stated.