ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #3

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593740993479979009

Seeing that this was that gruesome...
The killer had to be drenched in blood when he fled....moo

 

[late1]

I see a car pull up in the reflection at 3:50:00. M and K leave frame at 3:53:30. Car pulls away at 3:53:55. Someone better than I could match up the tail lights.

Wow! Great observation! Enhance, enhance, enhance...

 

[tobiasfunque]

What are you referencing?

In the food truck twitch video. It seems like that could be their ride. Or if we know the car they took home that could be a follower.

 

[Curiosa20]

Has it ever been confirmed that the weapon was a knife? I know there was a report from a merchant that they were looking for someone who might have bought a knife, but have they actually confirmed beyond a "sharp edged" implement?

The Coroner referred to the weapon as a large knife.

 

[Karin1974]

"At 2:26 a.m., Kaylee starts to call J," AG told "Inside Edition," which described J as a young man. "Kaylee calls J six times between 2:26 a.m. and 2:44 a.m. From 2:44 to 2:52 Maddie calls Jack three times, then Kaylee makes a final call to him at 2:52 a.m."

It sounds like those 2 girls were desperate and panic stricken.

But, if they needed help quickly, I wonder why they didn't call Ethan and Xana though...?
Or the other 2 housemates on the bottom floor?

Maybe the intruder came upon those on the second floor first & the girls on the third floor heard the commotion but were too scared to do anything but try calling J until it was too late for them aswell? MOO

 

[Manwel]

I don't think it's a hobby. I think this is a serial killer who's killed in this manner before.

I did a search through the Murder Accountability Project and was able to find the following:

* Sandra Ladd, 71, homicide in home, stab wounds to torso, Washougal, WA, Summer 2020

No arrests, no suspects, and someone placed a 911 call saying there was a deceased person in the home but police wouldn't share who that caller was or what they said.

 

[mickey2942]

As a side note, I have a friend in the area, and they have started a "pot luck" group to feed all of the various LEO that have been doing the investigation. Dropping items off at the police station, because many of the officers have been working so much on this case. Lots of long hours. I thought that was really an awesome goodwill gesture from the community.

 

[SunnyBooBoo]

In the food truck twitch video. It seems like that could be their ride. Or if we know the car they took home that could be a follower.

The food truck stuff happened around 1:45 am, not 3:50 am like you stated. The later time is around the time they suspect they were attacked.
I thought you saw the ring camera for a moment.
And good observation, I will look at that video again as well.

 

[tobiasfunque]

The food truck stuff happened around 1:45 am, not 3:50 am like you stated. The later time is around the time they suspect they were attacked.
I thought you saw the ring camera for a moment.
And good observation, I will look at that video again as well.

My timestamps were in video time. Let me know what you think!

 

[Curiosa20]

I agree. I literally "sleep like the dead". I always have. Even when my kids were little, they went to wake up their Dad first! He was always the one getting them at night.

Ever since the Jayme Clossen kidnapping, I just can't figure out anything. The kidnapper was a random incel, who lived in a basement. He had zero connections to the family, no previous crimes. If Jayme hadn't escaped, she would have never been found.

So, as much as we want this tied up, neatly in a box, know that there is someone out there, who killed four people, stabbed them to death. And walked out of the house. No one has a clue who did it...

Then there is Heidi Planck.

 

[NWguy22]

This was actually my first thought after I read the fact that something was left at the scene that pointed to this being targeted. I didn't want to mention it because it's so awful and maybe too out there.

But the fact that one officer needed time off and others are being offered counseling tells me that this crime was particularly savage, (as if 4 stabbed young people is not enough), with something extra awful being a component here. Wasn't it reported there was even blood splatter on the ceiling?

So so tragic and senseless ......

You’ll note that LE has not disconfirmed this idea, while they have gone out of their way to dispel others

 

[slanda]

I have had calls where people were too freaked out to go check. Cant really make them go check either. One of the first questions asked is if they are conscious and breathing. Its been a few years, I don't think there was anything except for overdoses that would change the CPR being started or how it was done, but that may have changed and or this department could not use the same system. But yes, if they were to check and they were not breathing normally CPR would be started. Sorry just FYI, but a question that could make CPR not be an option would be if they were cold to the touch or stiff that would have them step away and wait. I dont think they would assume anyone was deceased until a medic was able to get there and confirm. Just my experience and opinion.

Thank you for explaining this. I am that person if I saw someone I knew maybe partially covered, covered in blood and not moving, etc… I’m going to freak out and literally run away for fear of what I might see up close. Call me a coward but I know my limits and my brain is not equipped to process something that horrific and incomprehensible. I’d just relay to dispatch there’s something obviously very wrong and wait as far away as possible for LE to arrive. There’s no way anyone could make me go look especially if there was a stench of blood and my friends/family not moving or unresponsive to my voice. I’m sorry, I just could not handle it and that’s why the “unresponsive” description seems reasonable to me.

 

[TaconicRider]

You have to make a conscious choice to actively disengage - from WS, media, Google, etc. Try not to think about it too much. Try to check the news on it just once a day and limit yourself to no more than 20 minutes of reading the news. Try to depersonalize the victims (not dehumanize, just remind yourself that they were not people in your life). If you can do at least one of those things, it can really help. Sometimes following cases can take a serious toll on one’s mental health. If we see ourselves going down that path, it’s time to step away for a bit. Maybe longer than a bit in some instances. I’ve had as long as a year break from WS before.

This was actually my first thought after I read the fact that something was left at the scene that pointed to this being targeted. I didn't want to mention it because it's so awful and maybe too out there.

But the fact that one officer needed time off and others are being offered counseling tells me that this crime was particularly savage, (as if 4 stabbed young people is not enough), with something extra awful being a component here. Wasn't it reported there was even blood splatter on the ceiling?

So so tragic and senseless ......

IMO ...Its a very emotion filled murder. This person was either super mad, super jealous or super strength " high". Some drugs can cause super strength and you would need that to kill 4 people in such a manner. The friends of these young deceased kids , IMO , will be the best people to crack this case. Interview them all , all day long..... were there stalkers, money owed to someone, fights with classmates, unresolved issues with former friends ? Somebody knows something. New drug dealers in town ? gang member dealers in town ? This savage slaying is hallmark for gang bangers.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

If you theorize that the killer knew the victims then you can surmise that the killer or killers visited their social media sites. Possibly posted, followed or just plain visited the sites to stalk the victims online.

I'd first focus on the last couple of days and maybe check with the ISPs in the area and see if they can match ip addresses within the area to the victims social web pages. If not, i'd do some due diligence on the victim's followers that are local to the area and one by one check out each one. I'd start with the males first as I believe this was done by a male perpetrator.

 

[NWguy22]

Maybe the intruder came upon those on the second floor first & the girls on the third floor heard the commotion but were too scared to do anything but try calling J until it was too late for them aswell? MOO

My issue with this theory is they never got a call off to 911? I could see initially calling J instead but when the killer busts into your room wielding a bloody knife, maybe it’s time to call the police instead.

 

[KonaHonu]

What is interesting to me is if law-enforcement is giving us just the initial call that was coded as unconscious even though it may have been updated before they arrived. You would think the 911 operator would have asked that person, the caller, to do CPR or evaluate if they were breathing. Wouldn’t you? And, at that point they would’ve recognized the blood and you would think it would become an OMG type of call then. Yet I think we’ve heard that officers found the bodies when they arrived. Did the killer make this call? Were they getting tired of waiting for the bodies to be found?

Maybe you can answer this question. If the caller was on the phone thinking that someone was unconscious and later discovers that they’ve been stabbed. Would the 911 operator ask them to step outside and leave the area or go search the house and look to see if the other roommates were OK?

I've been a 911 caller in a couple of relevant situations and I can tell you what I was advised.

First time, our house was burglarized. We came home to an open back door. This was before cell phones. I cautiously went inside, grabbed the cordless phone, and went back out and called 911. After their script they sent police and told us to stay out since the intruders could still be inside. Cops showed up after a few minutes, cleared the house, and that was it. They took a few inexpensive things and we submitted a police report a few days later.

Second time my elderly neighbor went unconscious on the toilet in the middle of the night. Her sister who was staying with her called us and we went over. I am a trained emergency medical responder, just below an EMT. I quickly diagnosed a "commode code," moved her to the living room floor, treated for shock and had her sister call 911. The operator took my status as an EMR and diagnosis, asked if there were signs of trauma then offered support until fire department arrived. I reported a thready pulse and normal breathing. I assessed blood pressure by palpitation (very crude) and did my best until FD arrived about 5 minutes later. Paramedic measured BP properly, which was very low, confirmed my diagnosis, observed her for a few minutes until she regained consciousness. They asked her if they could transport and she agreed. That was the last time I saw her. It turned out the underlying cause was late stage breast cancer and she passed away a few weeks later.

The point is, 911 is not going to direct someone into a potentially dangerous situation. They will also only ask someone to treat as they are qualified to do. A normal person might be asked to assess breathing, trauma signs, and pulse if they could access the victim and that leads me to think the unconcious victim was observed from outside by someone who did not know the door was unlocked.

(For those who don't know, a commode code occurs mostly in elderly people who are constipated. When humans bare down to poop, there is a natural response called the vagal nerve response that causes your blood pressure to drop temporarily. It can cause you to pass out in some cases which is called vasovagal syncope.)

 

[NeverPersonal]

Agreed. An actively using addict would have been way more sloppy and wouldn’t have been able to think of all the logistics to get in and out unseen and to stay that way. IMO

There is no blanket statement for "all" of a group of people. I've met well functioning people struggling with addiction who were high achieving perfectionists, and not sloppy at all.

 

[Normamsmiley]

If you theorize that the killer knew the victims then you can surmise that the killer or killers visited their social media sites. Possibly posted, followed or just plain visited the sites to stalk the victims online.

I'd first focus on the last couple of days and maybe check with the ISPs in the area and see if they can match ip addresses within the area to the victims social web pages. If not, i'd do some due diligence on the victim's followers that are local to the area and one by one check out each one. I'd start with the males first as I believe this was done by a male perpetrator.

I agree. I think you would need to start by going back to the day of the murder (well, the Saturday). Since the crime, the IG account has a ton of new followers and I would de-prioritize those for now. I’d look at every male follower that Kaylee had and start checking alabis. Tedious work for sure, but I agree that if the killer knew her, he was likely a follower or at a minimum checked her account.

 

[NWguy22]

I’m very confused by this “private party” ride home thing. You’d think LE would’ve known days ago if the girls came home in an Uber or not. That’d be one of the very first things you’d look at

 

[Curiosa20]

I did a search through the Murder Accountability Project and was able to find the following:

* Sandra Ladd, 71, homicide in home, stab wounds to torso, Washougal, WA, Summer 2020

No arrests, no suspects, and someone placed a 911 call saying there was a deceased person in the home but police wouldn't share who that caller was or what they said.

Wow! That’s interesting wirh the mystery caller.
Back on the 1st thread, I think, someone posted with alarm about a killer stabber who may have gotten out of prison in Idaho. She seemed to think there might be a parallel.
I’ll look for it.