ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 30

[DizzyB]

I believe the attempts to reach him were valid and both girls called trying to reach him (in vain). I believe they had heard the disturbance and struggling downstairs as the killer was engaging E & X. This unfolds quickly. They were upstairs and heard him enter (first calls and messages begin) to the point they hear sounds which are unsettling and frightening (fighting, grunting and moaning, shuffling and banging). Then they were engaged as well. Then off he went, as quickly as he came. JMOHO

I always took K’s family at their word when they said that it was typical behavior for her to call someone many times. I also went with the possibility that M tried as well, in case the individual was choosing not to pick up specifically because it was K. Or that they were drunk dialing.

But there is a possibility that it was more than that, and LE is choosing not to correct the narrative that is out there for public consumption. This might be one of those things that only the killer would know.

 

[layer]

I believe the attempts to reach him were valid and both girls called trying to reach him (in vain). I believe they had heard the disturbance and struggling downstairs as the killer was engaging E & X.

I used to think that too! Eventually I came to believe as K's mom does. She knew K better than we do.

If Kaylee was in imminent danger, her or Maddie, they would have called 911. They would not have been calling this person.

 

[gcplayer19]

Murphy was put in another room…we don’t know by who though

 

[rahod1]

I believe the attempts to reach him were valid and both girls called trying to reach him (in vain). I believe they had heard the disturbance and struggling downstairs as the killer was engaging E & X. This unfolds quickly. They were upstairs and heard him enter (first calls and messages begin) to the point they hear sounds which are unsettling and frightening (fighting, grunting and moaning, shuffling and banging). Then they were engaged as well. Then off he went, as quickly as he came. JMOHO

Makes no sense. I they were in jeopardy, call>>>911<<< Also, why repeatedly call EX??? You want an ARMED response, not an EX...who's NOT ANSWERING.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I always took K’s family at their word when they said that it was typical behavior for her to call someone many times. I also went with the possibility that M tried as well, in case the individual was choosing not to pick up specifically because it was K. Or that they were drunk dialing.

But there is a possibility that it was more than that, and LE is choosing not to correct the narrative that is out there for public consumption. This might be one of those things that only the killer would know.

Precisely!

 

[Charlot123]

?

If they are killed around the time messages start, or even halfway during the messages, then the reference time moves to earlier one. Example: Everyone is looking for Elantra because somehow the car falls into the expected time period. If the killings happened half an hour earlier, maybe it was another car that was nearby, but it is missed. Brian E commented, and people discuss, what is on the LE camera recordings. Time wise, there is an amazing coincidence. But if the victims were killed half an hour earlier, perhaps what is seen on the cameras is way post factum, and someone different is involved.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Makes no sense. I they were in jeopardy, call>>>911<<< Also, why repeatedly call EX??? You want an ARMED response, not an EX...who's NOT ANSWERING.

Students and young people often times call close friends or family before EVER calling the police/LE. It’s just a more natural M.O. exhibited by young adults. It doesn’t have to make sense. It simply is what they resort to most often. Kato Kalin heard scary bangs on the back of the poolhouse where he lived, yet he never called the police. Only the friend he was on the phone with when he first heard noises outside the home. Then he called the friend back to ask if there was an earthquake? He never called the cops.

 

[gcplayer19]

I believe the attempts to reach him were valid and both girls called trying to reach him (in vain). I believe they had heard the disturbance and struggling downstairs as the killer was engaging E & X. This unfolds quickly. They were upstairs and heard him enter (first calls and messages begin) to the point they hear sounds which are unsettling and frightening (fighting, grunting and moaning, shuffling and banging). Then they were engaged as well. Then off he went, as quickly as he came. JMOHO

I honestly don’t think that if these girls were in trouble who’s gonna be the ex-boyfriend they called and I’m really sorry to not share your opinion

 

[Kittycat40]

I believe the attempts to reach him were valid and both girls called trying to reach him (in vain). I believe they had heard the disturbance and struggling downstairs as the killer was engaging E & X. This unfolds quickly. They were upstairs and heard him enter (first calls and messages begin) to the point they hear sounds which are unsettling and frightening (fighting, grunting and moaning, shuffling and banging). Then they were engaged as well. Then off he went, as quickly as he came. JMOHO

If the girls on the third floor M and K called Jack because they heard scary disturbing sounds. That would not have been the smartest move on their part. Cause if that’s the case the killer or killers would get to M and K before the Jack could. Also from my understanding the girls never left a message for Jack indicating anything was wrong.
It seems more than likely that the girls just called Jack to chit chat and he wasn’t available.

If the girls M and K thought they might be in danger they more than likely would have called 911 or that would have been the smart thing to do.

Also keep this in mind some people don’t know this. Let’s say you dial 911 but you hang up like a few seconds after dialing without saying anything.
The police will assume something is wrong and they will send police very quickly to wherever the call came from. Also the police can quickly trace where the 911 call was placed from.

I think the killer and or killers came into the home to murder these 4 people at least 15 minutes or more after K and M were attempting to call Jack at 2:52am.

Side note: I have made calls to a friend at 2AM especially on weekends numerous times and I was fine. I just felt bored and wanted to talk to someone. So just because you call someone at 2AM is not a 100% sure fire case of oh this person is in danger.

 

[flowershop]

I see. So to throw off LE. My first thought was that it wouldn't be possible because they wouldn't have the phone's unlock code. But I have a son, 2nd year in college and none of those kids even have passwords on their phones. They're on them so often that it''s too much of a pain to constantly unlock it.
So this theory is certainly possible.

To use the student's phone the killer would have to use an item like gloves with conductive fingertips or else he would risk getting finger prints on the screen.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I did it earlier and gave up. I found a couple minor publications that attributed the 3-4 timeline to the coroner, but never any source to back it up.

I love playing “outside of the box” when thinking and looking for any facts or evidence. But detest the endless rabbit holes muddying the landscape with not a shred of additional knowledge or info after hours of running down articles and posts. It’s exhaustive, but never stop. And always, keep thinking OUTSIDE THE BOX.

 

[KatoLucy]

Has there been any discussion about that back kitchen sliding glass door being broken because I see the red tape the police put there and I’m wondering if that lock was broken?

Unfortunately, sliding glass door locks are easy to open, without even breaking the lock. I had a basement with one, and my home was broken into the day after Christmas one year. They stole my kids Christmas presents. When LEO’s showed me how easy it was to use a screwdriver to get the latch up over the rod it locked onto, I was shocked. I placed Rods in the track, so the door couldn’t slide, even if the lock was raised. They also told me “sash windows“ only take a second to breach, without breaking the lock. Those windows also received wooden inserts into the slides, to prevent opening, even if unlocked. Once we cleaned up all of the fingerprint dust, the house was sold. We do not have a sliding glass door now, but I do have wooden dowels in the “sash type windows.” We also have an alarm, and a bunch of security cameras. We weren’t home when it happened, or it would have turned out differently for the intruders. Our children are now grown, and we have keyless locks on the interior of our master bedroom door, to give me time to prepare my “welcoming committee”, if someone has somehow entered our home, while they try to breach the bedroom door. We also have a sign outside that says…. “Our doors are not locked to protect us, they are locked to protect YOU.”

 

[Angelcat13]

3:45 seems late to be heading toward the crime scene, imo. (I am confused on the so called direction and route the car may have been taking and why it seemingly would head toward the house rather than away from it.)

Someone mentioned maybe the camera time was wrong. Maybe the station didn't reset the time last month when the time changed? If so, it would have been 2:45, correct? And perhaps heading toward the house to commit the crime?

MOO.

Just my opinion, I don’t see someone speeding TO commit a murder (unless it was along the lines of a crime of passion, which I don’t see this as being). I would think the killer would be more careful driving to a scene so as not to get stopped for a motor vehicle violation and therefore not being able to complete his crime.

 

[WildWest]

I believe the attempts to reach him were valid and both girls called trying to reach him (in vain). I believe they had heard the disturbance and struggling downstairs as the killer was engaging E & X. This unfolds quickly. They were upstairs and heard him enter (first calls and messages begin) to the point they hear sounds which are unsettling and frightening (fighting, grunting and moaning, shuffling and banging). Then they were engaged as well. Then off he went, as quickly as he came. JMOHO

I just can't imagine what happened in that house, horrible! Could you clear up for me, do we know if they were texts of voicemails?

 

[gcplayer19]

Unfortunately, sliding glass door locks are easy to open, without even breaking the lock. I had a basement with one, and my home was broken into the day after Christmas one year. They stole my kids Christmas presents. When LEO’s showed me how easy it was to use a screwdriver to get the latch up over the rod it locked onto, I was shocked. I placed Rods in the track, so the door couldn’t slide, even if the lock was raised. They also told me “sash windows“ only take a second to breach, without breaking the lock. Those windows also received wooden inserts into the slides, to prevent opening, even if unlocked. Once we cleaned up all of the fingerprint dust, the house was sold. We do not have a sliding glass door now, but I do have wooden dowels in the “sash type windows.” We also have an alarm, and a bunch of security cameras. We weren’t home when it happened, or it would have turned out differently for the intruders. Our children are now grown, and we have keyless locks on the interior of our master bedroom door, to give me time to prepare my “welcoming committee”, if someone has somehow entered our home, while they try to breach the bedroom door. We also have a sign outside that says…. “Our doors are not locked to protect us, they are locked to protect YOU.”

Did you use a stick as commanly usded

 

[Angelcat13]

Unfortunately, sliding glass door locks are easy to open, without even breaking the lock. I had a basement with one, and my home was broken into the day after Christmas one year. They stole my kids Christmas presents. When LEO’s showed me how easy it was to use a screwdriver to get the latch up over the rod it locked onto, I was shocked. I placed Rods in the track, so the door couldn’t slide, even if the lock was raised. They also told me “sash windows“ only take a second to breach, without breaking the lock. Those windows also received wooden inserts into the slides, to prevent opening, even if unlocked. Once we cleaned up all of the fingerprint dust, the house was sold. We do not have a sliding glass door now, but I do have wooden dowels in the “sash type windows.” We also have an alarm, and a bunch of security cameras. We weren’t home when it happened, or it would have turned out differently for the intruders. Our children are now grown, and we have keyless locks on the interior of our master bedroom door, to give me time to prepare my “welcoming committee”, if someone has somehow entered our home, while they try to breach the bedroom door. We also have a sign outside that says…. “Our doors are not locked to protect us, they are locked to protect YOU.”

Your sign reminds me of one my father-in-law has posted - “Due to the increased cost of ammunition, no warning shot will be fired.”

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Something no one has mentioned, and I'll just throw this out, not because I have ever drunk dialed or had a sort of but not really ex or taken an amicable break or anything of the sort*, but just thinking:

perhaps they were calling him because, at first, it was a drunk dial, and when he didn't answer, Kaylee wasn't just thinking he was asleep, but that he was being entertained elsewhere, and she was a little jealous, so she kept calling and then had Maddie call thinking he would answer then.
When people take breaks in a LT relationship, the feelings don't always just turn off neatly, and thinking that he was with someone else might have prompted the calls.


*okay, I have, which I why I consider this

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I honestly don’t think that if these girls were in trouble who’s gonna be the ex-boyfriend they called and I’m really sorry to not share your opinion

That’s absolutely fine…I too, hope I am wrong on all accounts.

 

[girlrx]

To use the student's phone the killer would have to use an item like gloves with conductive fingertips or else he would risk getting finger prints on the screen.

Or maybe a stylus in their kill kit that @AuntTricia mentioned .

 

[KatoLucy]

Very interesting. Would you mind expanding on this? Why would the killers have made the calls? The texts show that they were asking the x boyfriend to come over. Why would the killer have done that?

Perhaps to make it look like someone who was at the crime scene wasn’t there?