ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 33

[AngTxGal]

Here’s another thought, as related to the “targeted” aspect: I know it was said one of the victims possibly had worse/more wounds, and I had mentioned I wonder if one of them was “covered up,” potentially indicating the killer knew the victim.

But another thought along these lines, is maybe there were not only more wounds, which could be attributed to a more intense struggle, but maybe it’s not so much the number of wounds, but the type of wounds, meaning, maybe there was some type of defacement, injuries to the face. Gosh I hate to type all this, but maybe not only overkill, but overkill in the sense of disfigurement, perhaps post-mortem.

What throws me off a lot in this case is the lack of SA, which was my first thought as to motive.

For reference, what serial killers that stabbed their victims without sexually abusing them?

Yes I’ve thought a lot about exactly these things, as sick as they are to think about.
I’ve wondered about blunt force in addition to the use of the knife.
- injury to head/ face and disfiguring
- covering up of the face afterward
- covering body with blanket
- putting pillow under head
- overkill

There are cases where personal connections between killer and victim are shown in killer’s actions- almost a sense of care following intense harm.
An expert would have to chime in because what is coming to mind is DV cases, or a mother harming a child.
It seems JMO that there is a difference between a perp considering the victim
- as an object or possession
- as a person
It seems there is also a difference between the perps reaction to their own actions
- do they show shame, not wanting the victim to see them afterward
- do they flaunt or display what they have done, staging.

I do not know, and have not heard anyone talk about these things. Likely because we do not know what the scenes look lIke other than stabbing and bloody.

I have asked myself these questions And think these details matter a LOT in understanding who did this and why. Four victims, more relationships, magnifies the complexity.

JMO

 

[Copper107]

It does imply more of a relationship though. Most people don't tell people they barely know, Everything. But, bartenders are known to be listeners to the drama so idk. IMO

My parents owned a bar for forty years, I worked there for 10 years, you wouldn't believe the things I've been told or just plain overheard. Most regulars to neighborhood bars tell the bartender lots of things as they generally know the same people as well. Also, we can't say they barely knew the bartender, we don't know that for certain. JMO

 

[Janeumayer]

Here’s another thought, as related to the “targeted” aspect: I know it was said one of the victims possibly had worse/more wounds, and I had mentioned I wonder if one of them was “covered up,” potentially indicating the killer knew the victim.

But another thought along these lines, is maybe there were not only more wounds, which could be attributed to a more intense struggle, but maybe it’s not so much the number of wounds, but the type of wounds, meaning, maybe there was some type of defacement, injuries to the face. Gosh I hate to type all this, but maybe not only overkill, but overkill in the sense of disfigurement, perhaps post-mortem.

What throws me off a lot in this case is the lack of SA, which was my first thought as to motive.

For reference, what serial killers that stabbed their victims without sexually abusing them?

While my POIs remain cleared by LE, I’m leaning towards the house number being the target. Thinking it could be as simple as a psychopath choosing the 1122 house number to kill its inhabitants.

1122 = 11/22 stands for November 2022

 

[Nila Aella]

I disagree on the crime of opportunity. There are far easier target for someone to kill if this wasn't personal. Attacking a house full of people isn't exactly the smartest idea, even if it worked out for him. The attack, albeit obviously planned, seem chaotic to me and not well organized. Take for example someone like ONS - he always came prepared and never took any chances. He knew exactly what to do and how to do it even if he was extremely bold. This killer, in contrast, seems very amateurish to me.

For one, as I said, multiple people in the same house isn't good not only for your own safety, but because they can easily alert others. Then you have also the fact that the killer was also armed with a simple knife. Also not the greatest idea. The house as a location is also a very bad location - not many routes to escape from, house is three stories, the area is very active and filled with people due to close proximity to student apartments and the fraternity buildings, etc. Obviously everything seems to have worked out for the killer so far, but there is a literal myriad of things that could have gone wrong during or after the attack

This is why I think this is personal. The amount of risk he took is insane when you think about it. Either personal or the killer is a complete imbecile who somehow lucked out.

<modsnip - bashing LE is not allowed>

Planned, chaotic, not well organized, amateurish. Excellent post!
I totally agree. IMO he had to do this quickly and that night so there was not extensive planning involved. I also believe all four were targeted. JMO

Who is ONS?

 

[Leve]

It does imply more of a relationship though. Most people don't tell people they barely know, Everything. But, bartenders are known to be listeners to the drama so idk. IMO

I agree, they may have known Adam outside of his bartending duties, he may be a friend or fellow student.

I don't think anything in the video makes him a suspect. I don't understand that leap.

 

[Walela]

Ba

Color me confused. I thought SG HIRED a lawyer to make the police release info. JMO

He did hire an attorney but I believe his complaint was directed toward the FBI attorneys that he believes are causing certain investigative data to be withheld from himself and the public. Evidently the attorneys work in FBI headquarters and field offices, providing legal advice on investigations, lawsuits and criminal cases, and assessing the legal implications of new law enforcement technologies.

https://www.fbijobs.gov/legal

 

[Ozoner]

There are many. A quick search pulls up more than I can list here. But two we can’t forget and are well publicized and just as shocking as this, Brian Laundrie and the tangled web he weaved or Chris Watts in most recent years. Brutal murders of loved ones growing apart. Again all this in my own humble opinion. Also, I don’t think this person snuck in. They came right in like they knew this place and it felt like a second home to them.

If the perp was someone in the close circle of one of the victims, then I think that LE would have connected the dots by now, so I think jealousy by a significant other or ex can be ruled out.

What can't be ruled out yet is some kind of erotomania where the stalker fantasized a relationship with one of the victims. A social misfit named Jason Downie was sexually obsessed with a girl named Chantelle Rowe (who was pregnant with his friend's child). He snuck into her house, hid in her shower, and stabbed her parents and her to death.

A JUDGE in Australia has condemned the "cold-blooded, merciless" killings carried out by a Scots teenager who raped and stabbed a pregnant 16-year-old and her parents, as he sentenced the 19-year-old to 35 years in prison.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Folks, it is only member speculation that these killings could be the work of a serial killer.

Please leave Bundy and the rest of that mottley crew out of this discussion until/unless LE indicates there could be a SK at work here.

Thank you.

 

[Walela]

Agree, an attorney cannot force law enforcement to release info during an ongoing investigation. LE represents the victim, serves the DA to collect evidence for prosecution.
It seems some families may not understand, and an attorney helps.

JMO

Yes. And an attorney can help with the paperwork involved in any information that needs a FOIA request. I'm not sure I would know how to complete some government papers if I were in his shoes.

 

[Ur728]

I heard ash too twice

I’m hearing “Mads”. Which is a common nickname for Maddie. JMO

 

[Dotta]

I’m hearing “Mads”. Which is a common nickname for Maddie. JMO

I have a question.
Does it mean that it was a cctv street camera with a microphone?

I never knew such street cameras with mics existed.

JMO

 

[tstephens1981]

Wow, I was assuming LE is following tips on 22,000 Elantra’s that “follow the criteria” As they have said.
I assumed that if they were specific on the years 2011-2013 the criteria would only include those currently registered and on the road, and white or similar color?
Is that not the case? 22,000 does sound like a LOT of white Elantras 2011-2013 in Idaho

What hasn’t been said is how many doors.
2 door model or 4 door model?

Knowing the number of doors would cut the 22,000 down significantly. Stock photos on MSM show 4 door models, but the image from the gas station looks like could be either.

Anyone have insight into how many doors it may have?

JMO

I’m a little older so this is common knowledge to me, but

SEDAN = 4 doors
COUPE = 2 doors

LE has stated “sedan” so 4 doors. (Also stock image shows 4, pretty sure that’s not an accident.)

Sedan vs. Coupe: How Different Are They?

Here's what they are, and why they are getting harder to tell apart.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[RetiredEE]

I'm going to toss out a different possibility: what if the killer had access to one or more of the victims' computers and/or phones?

Either physical access as with a computer/phone sales or repair business, or virtual access. The latter could be official, as with a college network administrator, or unofficial, as with a hacker or perhaps jealous bf/ex-bf who installed keystroke loggers or other stalking-type software.

Someone who had an attraction to one or more of the victims might then be able to follow them surreptitiously.

When one or more of the victims either discovered the stalking, or updated their phone/computer which removed the stalker's access, or, as in KG's case, made plans to leave town, might have pushed the killer over the edge.

Furthermore, since some of the victims worked in public businesses, could the killer have hit on one of them at work, been rejected, and then plotted his crime? With computer/phone access, their comings and goings might be easy to track. If a hacker was proficient enough, I'm told they can remotely access webcams and microphones on computers.

All Moo, but hopefully the crime techs will not only look at phone/computer content but also any traces of malware/loggers which might have been installed and later removed.

I'm also of the mind that the killer was early 20's to early 30's, just due to the likely physical aspects of killing four people, some of whom may have been putting up a defense. Male (highly, highly likely) or an extraordinarily athletic female (to take down an adult male, even if drunk).

I'd also hazard a guess that killer is former .mil, Army or Marines with at least basic hand to hand combat training. Hunter? Possibly, but hunters use firearms or bows, not edged weapons to kill. It is northern Idaho, so lots of sportsmen. Another angle for ex or current military would be at least basic training in E&E / Escape & Evasion, which seems to be in evidence many weeks later.

Car or other vehicle? Motorcycle? Bicycle (quiet/small/easy to hide) or just on foot. How many age 20-35 former or current .mil males that live within a mile or two of the house? Either customers of the establishments where victims worked, computer-savvy, possible network admins, computer/phone repair or skilled hacker?

Possibly had been in the "party house" in years past (hundreds if stories are true) as either invited guest, party crasher or repairman?

All Moo, trying to collect my thoughts out loud. Am sure much has been addressed, but haven't kept up with the threads. Could be something wildly different.

 

[Thora_Jay]

Earlier, I opened a website in another tab that a member posted earlier. Now I forgot the name of the member, but a huge thank you to the member that posted this website!

This website is fantastic, What big difference it makes looking at the floors and rooms as opposed to the real estate photos of the house on the web,,,,,

 

[AngTxGal]

I have a question.
Does it mean that it was a cctv street camera with a microphone?

I never knew such street cameras with mics existed.

JMO

Excellent question, I’ve not heard of CCTV with audio either.
Those are residential?
The presence of audio may be a hint to the type of business?
The camera is almost straight down on them from under the walkway. It shouldn’t be tough to locate following the path from CC to the Grub Truck.
I‘m also guessing there is more video and also more audio.

JMO

 

[Ur728]

I have a question.
Does it mean that it was a cctv street camera with a microphone?

I never knew such street cameras with mics existed.

JMO

Yes. It could be a ring or something like that. Surveillance cameras really are not very expensive and most have two way sound. Meaning you can hear others and even speak to them in return.

 

[Fascinated1]

Probably a pointless endeavor but I'm trying to decipher what the guy is saying.

"You're gonna _____(??????)____________" is what I hear. I wish the video was not so compressed and had a little less road noise.

I gotta say the body language doesn’t match the words. Kaylee doesn’t even seem to turn nor does she seem to be talking before they hit the place where the mic is. It is a little weird.

 

[AngTxGal]

Yes. It could be a ring or something like that. Surveillance cameras really are not very expensive and most have two way sound. Meaning you can hear others and even speak to them in return.

Of course, I was thinking those as being residential and on a doorbell.

JMO

 

[RetiredEE]

Earlier, I opened a website in another tab that a member posted earlier. Now I forgot the name of the member, but a huge thank you to the member that posted this website!

This website is fantastic, What big difference it makes looking at the floors and rooms as opposed to the real estate photos of the house on the web,,,,,

Were the upstairs victims in bedroom 3A or 3B?

Also was the "red substance" on the wall outside the 2nd floor bedroom ever identified? Is it still there or has it changed color? (darkened?)

 

[margarita25]

Apologies in advance for rehash, it’s virtually impossible to keep up with everything due to real life and job duties:

Were the funerals open or closed caskets? Did they vary?