ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 33

[Lillymac]

FWIW that Thursday was the opening of Labor Day weekend (Labor Day was Mon. the 5th.) They did get rowdy pretty early in the night but IME the most popular Greek houses/groups were pretty dependable for pre-gaming. Not terribly unusual (tho annoying if you’re NOT partying) IMO.

Good point. It's a long holiday weekend where I live too, but most are off on Monday and have to work on Friday. Doesn't really matter, noise is annoying anytime. Lol just throwing it out there. I'm sure LE was expecting it.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Yes that is exactly what I heard as well and could explain why they didn't talk to him much at the grub truck. Perhaps he told Adam something he shouldn't have.

Which may explain Maddie’s actions at the food truck when she pointed directly at hoodie guy and says, “ F-U MISTER.” May also explain why the girls “ditched” him after they grabbed their food. JMOO

 

[RetiredEE]

Good thought, a car guy... Kaylee just bought her vehicle days before. Do we know what city/town Kaylee bought her car in? CDL as it wasn't Moscow.

Here is a picture (source Fox, see URL) of the cars in front of the house:

Note the plate on KG's Range Rover. Dealer plate saying "1Price"

Here is a similar graphic from a Spokane auto chain:

There appear to be several different brands in that AutoNation dealer family in Spokane:

AutoNation One Price | AutoNation Toyota Spokane Valley (source of above graphic)

Your Spokane Chevy Dealer | AutoNation Chevrolet Spokane Valley

%DEALER_NAME% is your new & used car dealer in Spokane, serving %DEALER_GEO_ONE%, %DEALER_GEO_TWO%, and beyond. Visit today for leasing, financing, service, & more!

www.autonationchevroletspokanevalley.com

AutoNation Acura Spokane Valley | New & Used Cars

AutoNation Acura Spokane Valley is your local Acura dealership serving Spokane, Washington. Shop new and used cars for sale or schedule service!

www.autonationacuraspokanevalley.com

AutoNation Subaru Spokane Valley | Subaru Spokane Dealer

AutoNation Subaru Spokane Valley is your local Subaru dealer serving Spokane, Coeur d'Alene, and Post Falls. Shop new and used cars or schedule service!

www.autonationsubaruspokane.com

May be more, but that's a start, IMO.

 

[Bliss_Perth]

Yes. If so, most likely as you laid it out. Someone watching them, within the direct line of sight (of their home). This would include a multitude of homes and apartments in that rental-dense neighborhood. JMOHO

I noticed in some video footage and a few photos that a few groups of LE were paying attention to a tree stump and it looked sort of fresh. I just found it interesting and creepy because the location was near Maddies window. This opens up the line of site for a peeping tom.

The tree stump is between the legs of the guy in the left

 

[Lillymac]

Which may explain kaylee’s actions at the food truck when she pointed directly at hoodie guy and says, “ F-U MISTER.” May also explain why the girls “ditched” him after they grabbed their food. JMOO

I thought it was Maddie that did that...

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I don't know how to multiquote, lol!

Yes, I think the couple that was attacked (while their cat sitter was in another room of the house) and stabbed numerous times is probably done by the same perp. Travis died from the attack.

Sandra Ladd was the year before that. All on the same day of the month as the Idaho students being killed

Mom of slain Oregon man Travis Juetten speaks out after cops eye link to University of Idaho murders

Travis Juetten, 26, died while trying to fight a masked intruder who also attacked his 24-year-old wife as they were sleeping in their Silverton home at 3 a.m, police said.

nypost.com

View attachment 388643

I followed those peculiar oddities in neighboring counties and states. Some of the similarities are “bone chilling” in their accuracy and

I noticed in some video footage and a few photos that a few groups of LE were paying attention to a tree stump and it looked sort of fresh. I just found it interesting and creepy because the location was near Maddies window. This opens up the line of site for a peeping tom.

The tree stump is between the legs of the guy in the left

View attachment 388645

frightening thought. But if he’s local, this fresh stump and the “line of sight” theory could hold some credence and perhaps even a key. JMO

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I thought it was Maddie that did that...

Yes. I watched it again. It was definitely Maddie. My bad. Sorry. I updated the original post accordingly. Thanks for clarifying this matter.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Here is a picture (source Fox, see URL) of the cars in front of the house:

Note the plate on KG's Range Rover. Dealer plate saying "1Price"

Here is a similar graphic from a Spokane auto chain:

There appear to be several different brands in that AutoNation dealer family in Spokane:

AutoNation One Price | AutoNation Toyota Spokane Valley (source of above graphic)

Your Spokane Chevy Dealer | AutoNation Chevrolet Spokane Valley

%DEALER_NAME% is your new & used car dealer in Spokane, serving %DEALER_GEO_ONE%, %DEALER_GEO_TWO%, and beyond. Visit today for leasing, financing, service, & more!

www.autonationchevroletspokanevalley.com

AutoNation Acura Spokane Valley | New & Used Cars

AutoNation Acura Spokane Valley is your local Acura dealership serving Spokane, Washington. Shop new and used cars for sale or schedule service!

www.autonationacuraspokanevalley.com

AutoNation Subaru Spokane Valley | Subaru Spokane Dealer

AutoNation Subaru Spokane Valley is your local Subaru dealer serving Spokane, Coeur d'Alene, and Post Falls. Shop new and used cars or schedule service!

www.autonationsubaruspokane.com

May be more, but that's a start, IMO.

WOW! Thanks! I didn't think to check pics and not sure even discussed about location she bought vehicle. Good stuff! So sounds like car purchased in Washington? I'll go look up that dealership too.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Here is a picture (source Fox, see URL) of the cars in front of the house:

Note the plate on KG's Range Rover. Dealer plate saying "1Price"

Here is a similar graphic from a Spokane auto chain:

There appear to be several different brands in that AutoNation dealer family in Spokane:

AutoNation One Price | AutoNation Toyota Spokane Valley (source of above graphic)

Your Spokane Chevy Dealer | AutoNation Chevrolet Spokane Valley

%DEALER_NAME% is your new & used car dealer in Spokane, serving %DEALER_GEO_ONE%, %DEALER_GEO_TWO%, and beyond. Visit today for leasing, financing, service, & more!

www.autonationchevroletspokanevalley.com

AutoNation Acura Spokane Valley | New & Used Cars

AutoNation Acura Spokane Valley is your local Acura dealership serving Spokane, Washington. Shop new and used cars for sale or schedule service!

www.autonationacuraspokanevalley.com

AutoNation Subaru Spokane Valley | Subaru Spokane Dealer

AutoNation Subaru Spokane Valley is your local Subaru dealer serving Spokane, Coeur d'Alene, and Post Falls. Shop new and used cars or schedule service!

www.autonationsubaruspokane.com

May be more, but that's a start, IMO.

Outstanding, let’s hope LE pursues such an angle and leaves no stone unturned.

 

[Curiosa20]

I don't know how to multiquote, lol!

Yes, I think the couple that was attacked (while their cat sitter was in another room of the house) and stabbed numerous times is probably done by the same perp. Travis died from the attack.

Sandra Ladd was the year before that. All on the same day of the month as the Idaho students being killed

Mom of slain Oregon man Travis Juetten speaks out after cops eye link to University of Idaho murders

Travis Juetten, 26, died while trying to fight a masked intruder who also attacked his 24-year-old wife as they were sleeping in their Silverton home at 3 a.m, police said.

nypost.com

View attachment 388643

Thank you for bringing those tragic incidents up.
I keep thinking they are related, too.
I was just re reading what ISP Snell said about that- he did NOT rule Travis and Jamilyn’s attack out definitively.

I don't know how to multiquote, lol!

Yes, I think the couple that was attacked (while their cat sitter was in another room of the house) and stabbed numerous times is probably done by the same perp. Travis died from the attack.

Sandra Ladd was the year before that. All on the same day of the month as the Idaho students being killed

Mom of slain Oregon man Travis Juetten speaks out after cops eye link to University of Idaho murders

Travis Juetten, 26, died while trying to fight a masked intruder who also attacked his 24-year-old wife as they were sleeping in their Silverton home at 3 a.m, police said.

nypost.com

View attachment 388643

I feel so bad about them. I worry too about a connection. Apparently there are significant differences, which we don’t know about.
This is what Officer Snell said on 11/27:
'We don't believe at this time ... these murders are actually linked to two other knife murders that have occurred both in Pullman, [Washington] as well as Oregon,' Snell said, noting that police are 'aware of these various reports' and 'looked into them.'
'Again, that's part of the investigation,' he said. 'We have excellent investigators on this case. So ... we get critiqued by people that don't have knowledge of this specific case.'

Idaho police chief SLAMS rumors swirling over death of four students

Idaho state police have slammed rumors being spread about the deaths of four university students, saying the speculation does a disservice to the victims' families and to the community in general.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[jcamh]

This is freely available to the public posted by NewsNation reporter Brian Entin.

Is anyone able to do enhanced audio on what the male says at the beginning?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1604546379044425729

Did you all pay attention to the white truck and the dark sedan in the background? Could be completely irrelevant or it could be something?

 

[everybodhi]

I agree. I just don't get how the 2 alive roommates are reported by LE to come home around 1am and yet by 11:30am still no call to 911. Like these 2 alive roommates stayed in separate bedrooms and their sleep and awake behavior was as if they were one. Like "Let's go to sleep at same time, let's wake up late morning same time, let's summon friends cause something is not right with other 3 roommates"...something is bizarre and not adding up. Did one roommate wake up and start cleaning up party trash and then notice a smell or something then wake other live roommate? If the killer is on the loose, why are police acting like killer is dead...a nonthreat. Why is UI staff not demanding answers?

JMO and an alternate speculation to the possibility that “their sleep and awake behavior was as if they were one”:
Came home around 1am, asleep at separate moments by 1:15-1:40. Both wake after 9-10 hrs of sleep, each lie in their own bed checking phone, texting, friends’ social media posts, emails.
One roommate hears other coming out of shared bathroom, “good morning did you see this, did you hear so and so hooked up with him? etc.” /(speculative chit chat).
One or both (we don’t know) go upstairs sometime before 11:30, she/they see something alarming that in a state of shock cannot process or understand. Run back downstairs and possibly outside (we don’t know), call trusted friends who live close by or maybe even nearby siblings of upstairs roommate, (we don’t know who).
The ones called arrive quickly, after hearing account of roommate, (and possibly going upstairs to check but we don’t know that) they call 911 at 11:30.

Murdered Idaho Students Honored At Graduation Where Police Warn, “Stay Vigilant”
Moscow Police have repeatedly warned people to be vigilant, travel in groups, tell family and friends when you travel.. Chief Fry even spoke to issue these warnings at the University of Idaho graduation ceremony, never implying the killer is dead, imo.

On Dec 16 Chief Fry with their spokesperson and a State Police Colonel gave a press conference with Q and A in conjunction with UID President Green, Provost Lawrence, and Dean Eckels.
Green’s opening remarks begin at 4:30 minutes.

BBM
5:39 we’ve been working with Moscow police since we were notified Sunday of the crime
We’ve helped when asked and continually push for information whenever possible, knowing that we can not interfere with the important work and the investigation that is occurring.
We just want justice for these victims.

 

[Jdianeg]

Yea but if it was someone who frequented the house before then that’s going to be hard to prove they did it. Unless they find the knife, bloody clothes or the car then it’s going to be very difficult to get a conviction and probably even an arrest.

Which is why I think this is taking so long. They have so many samples in that house they have to identify and separate.

I have to think they are giving exact specifications of the car believed to be of importance because they have a pretty good hunch of who did do this! Just my opinion. Im going to bet they are watching someone via surveillance and just waiting for the owner of the vehicle to mess up somewhere or hoping someone close to the suspect starts to question him/her, and comes forwards with more info. I am also going to state that this may be the most ridiculous opinion ever. A part me of wants to believe some positivity is heading this way for the families!!!! Especially before Christmas- my goal from the start was Christmas! Catch the bad guy by then. Get all your ducks in a row, have solid evidence, connect all the dots, and then make the arrest!! Sorry, usually I’m more of the realist(today I’ll be the optimist)

I think they are being very careful with the lab work. The results are just coming in now. Think about all the specimens in that party house? All the hairs and tracked in dirt etc. this is partly why we think it’s taking long. The governor gave something like 1million in emergency funds for the investigation. Hopefully it’s a matter of a known person and they are trying to lock in the conviction not just an arrest.

 

[Curiosa20]

That makes sense.
Could be a group that targeted them, possibly?
Not necessarily from their college orgs but possibly from other related activities, like games or extra curricular activities?

Speaking of games, was there not one on around the time of the mass murders?
I know zero about games so wondering if it was significant for it's size or for any other reason?

who was the opposing team and where were they from and did they bring supporters?

The Vandals lost to UC Davis. The game started at 4:00 but tailgating hours earlier.
It was also Heroes Day and Seniors Day.

 

[kittythehare]

The Vandals lost to UC Davis. The game started at 4:00 but tailgating hours earlier.
It was also Heroes Day and Seniors Day.

Thanks.
I knew I heard something about games and I wondered whether they would have brought lots of new people to town?

 

[Curiosa20]

I agree. I just don't get how the 2 alive roommates are reported by LE to come home around 1am and yet by 11:30am still no call to 911. Like these 2 alive roommates stayed in separate bedrooms and their sleep and awake behavior was as if they were one. Like "Let's go to sleep at same time, let's wake up late morning same time, let's summon friends cause something is not right with other 3 roommates"...something is bizarre and not adding up. Did one roommate wake up and start cleaning up party trash and then notice a smell or something then wake other live roommate? If the killer is on the loose, why are police acting like killer is dead...a nonthreat. Why is UI staff not demanding answers?

I hear you. Which is why it is important for Media needs to stay on top of this.
Here’s the State Police Communication Officer Snell before he was replaced as spokesperson for MPD:
Snell added: 'Is there a threat to the community? I think we've been pretty consistent over the past week that yes, indeed, we know that somewhere in someone's community, possibly this community [Moscow], there is a person or persons who have committed multiple murders.
'Is there a threat to the community? Yes, there is. Is there somebody out there? Yes. Our goal is to find that person and bring them to justice.'

Idaho police can't corroborate claims that victim had a stalker

Police investigating the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students have insisted at least one of the victims was targeted - but refuse to say which of the friends could have been the focus.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Curiosa20]

Thanks.
I knew I heard something about games and I wondered whether they would have brought lots of new people to town?

You know, college games are usually supported by die hard fans.
UC Davis is about 14 hours drive away, so I doubt many went from there.
The game was covered by ESPN.
I searched for Heroes Day to see what that’s about but didn’t find anything.

 

[AngTxGal]

There are, unfortunately, some brilliant, organized yet extremely sick minds. I don't know why so many think a month is that long of a time in an investigation like this. It may take 6 months before this killer is finally apprehended (meaning arrested, not identified) and that, in my mind, would be quick. AJMO

Many killers are caught within days to weeks, the difference is the planning ahead, and connection to the crime. That is my point, not that this has been too long or that I‘m not patient. My guess is an investigation takes as long as it does- but the timing says something.

Based on timing IMO this guy was not a friend who came over, had his cell phone in his pocket, got pissed off about something and reacted resulting in the murder of four people, who then walked out of that house in bloody clothing, ran from the scene to get home on foot or to his car and drove home.

I think that because they are not in custody. So It can’t have been a usual suspect- IMO
- No DNA or fingerprints was found on scene and linked to database
- ? Did they ask people in their close circle for DNA swabs?

They are not in custody because of planning
- no forced entry Fact
- in the wee hours when all were likely asleep Fact
- ? bloody trail out of the home
- ? DNA easily found in places that would have to be the killer, such as in blood on doorknobs
- ? fingerprints in blood on doors, door frames

A month out means evidence of many types should be available
So, what is the connection between the perp and the victims if it is not one of their friends or acquaintances? Where did they come into contact with this person, and which of the four was the contact? To me that is the million dollar question as it leads to motive

Weaving all of what we know together
- personal nature of knife brought with the murderer and nature of a stabbing
- word ‘target’ used by PD
- voyeur footage at the GrubTruck showing K and M were drunk that night
- jobs working with the general public in evenings
- heavy presence of victims on social media
- timing of K being only in town for a few days

I see older mature planner, stalker/ voyeur/ obsessed, confident, predator
How long will it take to put the pieces all together? No clue, as long as it takes.
Wish it was yesterday, I have a small inkling of the loss and pain- my kids are 18 and 20.
Very interesting, breaks my heart and gives me the creeps at the same time
JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

I've been thinking about bloody footprints as someone mentioned upthread... He had to leave footprints. It would be impossible not to, unless he smeared his own footprints behind him before leaving.

Douglas Garland wore a hazmat suit, planned to the tilt - didn't leave a spot of DNA or one hair but he still left bloody footprints even tried mopping IIRC.

Even if booties were used, with that much blood I'd think possible an impression from weight bearing (foot or shoe)... I'm not sure there's a way to NOT leave a trail unless he cleaned his shoes/feet before leaving somehow (water/sink/hose).

I recently hand dyed fabric as organized and careful as I was - I still made more a mess than expected with drips, spills, stains, etc. I'm sure this guy left DNA or something trace behind, seems impossible not to!

re blood trails/footprints on exit or any other evidence which may have been dropped as the perp left

Does anybody who watched a lot of news footage recall seeing a finger tip search of the back yard area before the snow fell? I always though those autumn leaves could obscure a multitude of sins.
Every day after the murders, there seemed to be media there from one organisation or several.

by fingertip search I just mean the typical methods where LEO or forensics staff fan out across defined areas and cover every inch. Here's an example of one from msm source. ( Typing police carry out finger tip search into google will bring up other variations Police fingertip search hi-res stock photography and images - Alamy )

 

[Trino]

Many killers are caught within days to weeks, the difference is the planning ahead, and connection to the crime. That is my point, not that this has been too long or that I‘m not patient. My guess is an investigation takes as long as it does- but the timing says something.

Based on timing IMO this guy was not a friend who came over, had his cell phone in his pocket, got pissed off about something and react resulting in the murder of four people, then simply walked out of that house in bloody clothing, Walked home or got into his car and drove home

I think that because they are not in custody
It can’t have been a usual suspect- IMO
They are not in custody because this crime was carefully planned

- bloody trail out of the home
- DNA easily found in places that would have to be the killer, such as doorknobs
- fingerprints in blood on doors, door frames
- DNA of killer in databases due to prior conviction

These are not facts, but are reasonable speculations based on it being a month out, and evidence of many types should be available by now

So, what is the connection between the perp and the victims if it is not one of their friends or acquaintances? Where did they come into contact with this person, and which of the four was the contact?
To me that is the million dollar question as it leads to motive

Weaving all of what we know together
- personal nature of knife and stabbings
- word ‘target’ used by PD
- voyeur footage at the GrubTruck showing K and M were drunk
- heavy presence on social media
- timing of K being only in town for a few days

I don’t see peer, I see older mature planner, stalker/ voyeur/ obsessed
How long will it take to put the pieces all together? No clue, as long as it takes.
Wish it was yesterday
I have two new college age children, so I worry and have some sense of the loss

JMO

Good post. Agree it was an older killer. I think it was planned, not spur-of-the-moment. No cell. Gloves. Has disposed of evidence, including weapon. Not even sure of a motive - just an opportunity and a distorted mind. Reference Richard Speck who stabbed 8 nurses mass killing Chicago 1966. He did not know any of them, did not stalk them. These people are out there, living among us.