ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 33

[GhostGhost]

Am I the only one who thinks that middle (2nd) floor would be a virtual maze in the dark? One external entry, three interior doors, two staircases, plus living room AND kitchen furniture, plus kitchen tools, etc.

I have trouble believing an intruder would even find X's bedroom after entering through the slider, UNLESS he had been on site before. (ETA OR the intruder was interrupted by E or X investigating a noise they heard. Perhaps that drew the attacker back to X's bedroom.)

I think the killer was familiar with the house and sleeping arrangements.

It was a big party house, too

 

[Nova]

I don’t get the feeling they were too security conscious.

I think a lot of us might be careless about security if we lived with 4 or 5 other roommates plus overnight guests. Despite the six bedrooms, the house at 1122 King doesn't seem all that large.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Works for me!! Adam is the bartender at the pub K&M were at just prior to being spotted on that newly released video, on their way to the food truck. LE has known about it for weeks & has moved on from. Thats enough for me to put this subject of discussion to bed.

I remember early there were questions about why the girls would be at that "dive bar"... no shock to me personally, I loved dive bars at that age and still do when I get a chance!

However, IIRC people were reacting as to why they would be in "such a place." Makes more sense now as they could've been visiting Adam.

I used to always go visit pals at pubs/restaurants if I knew they were working... especially a bartender, where they might promo drinks/freebies, make drinks stronger, get drink deals, etc. And works for bartender too... might like when friends bring friends (pretty girls) down to where they are as can make a place busier, or seem "happening".

JMO, MOO from my bartending days

 

[Nova]

It's not just you--I have always felt that way after looking at the floor plans. I actually think X's bedroom would be harder to find than the upstairs ones if you're coming through the slider. It's tucked away in such a way that it would be quite easy to miss, IMO, and is more out of the way than running up the stairs. MOO

I agree re X's bedroom being harder to find in the dark than the third floor!

Even if an intruder came up the stairs from the front door (which I doubt), he might go right past X's room without noticing it in the dark.

 

[BlueTunes]

What happened? Did he get messed up by killing four people and blank out as he took backroads, only to find himself Westbound on White Ave 30 minutes or so after the murders?

JMO

I wonder if the reason he took the backroads to begin with was because he had removed his plates and didn’t want to risk getting pulled over because of it.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

Idaho Murders Update as 50 Search Warrants Obtained in Investigation

so the police have at last 50 search warrants they have turned into the court. The6 are working hard to find answers

I would think at least half, if not all, of those are for the vic's personal cell phones, SM accounts, computer hardware Drive, emails, etc. JMO / IMO

 

[XtremeScorpio]

I remember early there were questions about why the girls would be at that "dive bar"... no shock to me personally, I loved dive bars at that age and still do when I get a chance!

However, IIRC people were reacting as to why they would be in "such a place." Makes more sense now as they could've been visiting Adam.

I used to always go visit pals at pubs/restaurants if I knew they were working... especially a bartender, where they might promo drinks/freebies, make drinks stronger, get drink deals, etc. And works for bartender too... might like when friends bring friends (pretty girls) down to where they are as can make a place busier, or seem "happening".

JMO, MOO from my bartending days

Makes sense to me

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

What's the trigger ... someone she met at work, saw at the bar, who felt he did not get deserved attention? This is so out there that it's hard to not think the killer is demented and making bizarre connections out of thin air between a hunting knife and a victim at 2 or 2:45 in the morning. This is targeted, planned, pre-meditated at 2:45 AM.

IMO he may have become enchanted online and then made contact. Or maybe he saw her IRL first through incidental contact, found out her name, and went to SM. I'd bet money he stalked her on SM and the fantasy began, whoever 'she' was. KG had a huge following (60K on TT and half that on IG). Even if KG was not his target, one of the other young women in the house and on her SM may have caught his eye. I suspect from there, he was close enough to make peripheral contact.

I also think he is creepy when you get to know him at all, but can look pretty normal on the surface. Someone knows his cold side; someone knows his explosive rage. I think he's got tech skills, and I think he's super control organized. I think he did late night visits or maybe during the day while they were away.

I base this mostly on intuition, but sadly, also from experience. When one of these obsessive guys decides you're the one, it is not reality-based. A threat-assessment trainer explained to me that oftentimes when they interview the attacker, he'll have fabricated an entire relationship and then when reality hits (she gets a new boyfriend, something that's taking her away, real life rejection, etc.), the reaction is as extreme as the fantasy. And the woman will have absolutely no idea that he's obsessed this way. I think that's what happened here, but on steroids. If you've never had to deal with it, it's hard to explain and 'prove', but it's real, and it is awful to deal with it.

Anyway, I think it was something like this where he was very obsessive and when he realized he couldn't have her, potentially coupled with some other trigger in his life, he started planning. I don't think he just decided at 2:30 a.m. to get in the car and drive. I think he was getting in the car at that time and driving because it was time. And I think that there were 3 incidental murders and 1 focused one. And I suspect there was some freak show to it.

This is all JMO, of course, and I know nothing more than anyone else here. Not as much as many. But this seems very well planned, and these were beautiful young women who did nothing wrong. So I think it takes that kind of psychopath to do something like this. JMO.

 

[jcamh]

I am shocked at how easy it can be to open a glass sliding door that is locked all you need is a screwdriver or a pry bar and to watch a two minute long video on YouTube. If you have a glass sliding door that has been in your home for years, which has not been installed with upgraded locks more recently, I would suggest enquiring about upgrading the locks to try and make your glass sliding door more secure if you possibly can.

View attachment 388404
Another suggestion I saw online is that you can buy a security bar for sliding patio doors which can easily be put on and taken off in less than a minute when your doors are not in use. These are intended to prevent someone from being able to slide open your patio doors. The security bar in the photo is called the Brinks Commercial Adjustable Heavy-Duty Steel Door Security Bar and it can be purchased from stores like Walmart for $24 or Home Depot. Similar security bars are available from other manufacturers and retailers.
Robot or human? (Link provided to show source of image).

It has not been confirmed by law enforcement that the perpetrator of this horrific tragedy entered the property via the glass sliding doors. Even if the patio doors were used and they have more secure locks and these security bars they would have likely have found another way to get in. But I think if there are easy and affordable ways of making it more difficult for criminals to gain entry to your home then I think they are worthwhile considering.

Apparently, you can attach 2 suction cups to a sliding glass door and lift it out of its frame pretty easily. The best protection, if you have a sliding glass door is a simple pin. You drill a hole through the top and bottom of the metal frames where one door meets the other door and you insert a metal pin on the top and/or the bottom that can be taken in and out any time you need to use the door.

 

[femto]

There was no *trigger*. The killings were planned ahead of time. I don't see the victims as *personal* targets per se....just vulnerable targets to satisfy the urge to kill. Did the killer know exactly how many ahead of time? Hard to say, but I don't see this as relevant in this case. It was a crime of opportunity. Well planned by a very capable killer.
The fact that case remains *cold* shows a killer who knows how to evade LE. MOO.

I disagree on the crime of opportunity. There are far easier target for someone to kill if this wasn't personal. Attacking a house full of people isn't exactly the smartest idea, even if it worked out for him. The attack, albeit obviously planned, seem chaotic to me and not well organized. Take for example someone like ONS - he always came prepared and never took any chances. He knew exactly what to do and how to do it even if he was extremely bold. This killer, in contrast, seems very amateurish to me.

For one, as I said, multiple people in the same house isn't good not only for your own safety, but because they can easily alert others. Then you have also the fact that the killer was also armed with a simple knife. Also not the greatest idea. The house as a location is also a very bad location - not many routes to escape from, house is three stories, the area is very active and filled with people due to close proximity to student apartments and the fraternity buildings, etc. Obviously everything seems to have worked out for the killer so far, but there is a literal myriad of things that could have gone wrong during or after the attack

This is why I think this is personal. The amount of risk he took is insane when you think about it. Either personal or the killer is a complete imbecile who somehow lucked out.

<modsnip - bashing LE is not allowed>

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I happened to watch a David Blaine magic special tonight and he does a trick where he stabs the cards with a knife. His hand slips down and cuts himself and said he no longer has feeling. The killer must have had a similar situation!

not if he wore cut proof gloves imo

 

[jcamh]

I would think at least half, if not all, of those are for the vic's personal cell phones, SM accounts, computer hardware Drive, emails, etc. JMO / IMO

I don't know about that. Wouldn't the parents be able to give their consent for the cell phones, especially if their "child" was still on their parents' service. I understand that each of these "children" were over the age of 18 and were adults, but if it's the parents' plan, I don't know if that matters. I would think that these search warrants are for the cell phone records of individuals whom LE needed to investigate in order to clear them. People who were possible suspects by virtue of being seen with the victims or being in their inner circle. I would think that search warrants could have been sought for the vehicles and homes of some of these same people and/or to obtain DNA swabs from them.

 

[GhostGhost]

.
.
He didn’t leave out Taylor Ave. (Not picked up on Cam pointed to Taylor).

The back way out and path could mean his direction is not surprising later going West on White, if that is him.

If he takes Walenta to Ridge and takes Palouse River Drive over to that part of town, which doesn’t take long, and hits Mountain View hits White Ave. Makes a LEFT on rt. 8 and goes East. East -SE

He’s not actually coming back to 1122 King.

Move the murders to 3:15 and the times probably align.

MOO.

It’s a Left on Rt. 8 -

Left, I should’ve said earlier.

Police also went to Gas stations in Troy.

MOO.

 

[BlueTunes]

Am I the only one who thinks that middle (2nd) floor would be a virtual maze in the dark? One external entry, three interior doors, two staircases, plus living room AND kitchen furniture, plus kitchen tools, etc.

I have trouble believing an intruder would even find X's bedroom after entering through the slider, UNLESS he had been on site before. (ETA OR the intruder was interrupted by E or X investigating a noise they heard. Perhaps that drew the attacker back to X's bedroom.)

JMO

In some of victims last videos you can see they have an assortment of decorative lights setup on the second floor. Perhaps some were still on?

 

[Charlot123]

There was no *trigger*. The killings were planned ahead of time. I don't see the victims as *personal* targets per se....just vulnerable targets to satisfy the urge to kill. Did the killer know exactly how many ahead of time? Hard to say, but I don't see this as relevant in this case. It was a crime of opportunity. Well planned by a very capable killer.
The fact that case remains *cold* shows a killer who knows how to evade LE. MOO.

I think that the killer is on his path to become a serial one, although it might have been his first murder/s. Or more likely, there was someone before, but it was a vulnerable person (an addict, or a sick and old one) who disappeared and has nor been found/connected. Whoever mentioned the
reservations might be right.

This case might have had a "formal" provocation, but IRL the provocation was merely the justification to kill. "Talking sh.@ about us", for example.

I think the person enjoys the hunt. He is not necessarily an avid hunter, but going through the house to find victims was fun for him, maybe more so than the killing. I think that for him, the endorphins rise with anticipation. So even if he is the hunter, the fun is in finding the animal who hides, more than the pursuit. (Maybe something about hunting the animals capable of mimicry, or the ones that hide in burrows?).

He did plan. Probably he had several plans and houses in mind. This one, for some reason, worked the best. I don't think it had to do with KG being in the house, or not. It could have been linked to the frat quarrel, but only because it was a good pretext - murder of X@E that night would have been blamed on that quarrel. I don't think the person was involved in the quarrel, but either he saw it, or heard about it from someone else. (There probably is a "gossip radio" in frat?).

He also understands that the more people, the longer to investigate the connections. One X would be her exes, her family, maybe someone from the sorority. X + M + K = the same for the three, plus verifying K's stalker. E = him and his twins, at least.

I honestly think that he spared the victims downstairs because killing them would have helped identify him sooner, if it makes sense. Maybe it is someone who knows the survivors' friends.

To me, it seems that he worked alone. Maybe there was a scout outside, but unlikely. If someone gave him a ride, this person is either gone, or listed as disappeared, or is hysterically afraid of him. Not a partner in crime.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Another suggestion I saw online is that you can buy a security bar for sliding patio doors which can easily be put on and taken off in less than a minute when your doors are not in use. These are intended to prevent someone from being able to slide open your patio doors. The security bar in the photo is called the Brinks Commercial Adjustable Heavy-Duty Steel Door Security Bar and it can be purchased from stores like Walmart for $24 or Home Depot. Similar security bars are available from other manufacturers and retailers.
Robot or human? (Link provided to show source of image).

I bought steel rods from the hardware store. I measured to make sure they'd fit in the slot, and I got some for the windows, too (mine slide sideways). nothing is going to move that, and they can't be popped out with pressure.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I am shocked at how easy it can be to open a glass sliding door that is locked all you need is a screwdriver or a pry bar and to watch a two minute long video on YouTube. If you have a glass sliding door that has been in your home for years, which has not been installed with upgraded locks more recently, I would suggest enquiring about upgrading the locks to try and make your glass sliding door more secure if you possibly can.

View attachment 388404
Another suggestion I saw online is that you can buy a security bar for sliding patio doors which can easily be put on and taken off in less than a minute when your doors are not in use. These are intended to prevent someone from being able to slide open your patio doors. The security bar in the photo is called the Brinks Commercial Adjustable Heavy-Duty Steel Door Security Bar and it can be purchased from stores like Walmart for $24 or Home Depot. Similar security bars are available from other manufacturers and retailers.
Robot or human? (Link provided to show source of image).

It has not been confirmed by law enforcement that the perpetrator of this horrific tragedy entered the property via the glass sliding doors. Even if the patio doors were used and they have more secure locks and these security bars they would have likely have found another way to get in. But I think if there are easy and affordable ways of making it more difficult for criminals to gain entry to your home then I think they are worthwhile considering.

We just used an old broom handle cut to size on our sliding glass doors when we were in college.

 

[The Observer]

I think it could be something too, IMO. I'm curious as to why there is crime scene tape around all the gas pumps. Do they think it's possible, or has it been said, that the occupant(s) of the white car pumped gas there?

It's not crime scene tape, its caution tape. It's only been stated that the car sped past.

I remember early there were questions about why the girls would be at that "dive bar"... no shock to me personally, I loved dive bars at that age and still do when I get a chance!

However, IIRC people were reacting as to why they would be in "such a place." Makes more sense now as they could've been visiting Adam.

I used to always go visit pals at pubs/restaurants if I knew they were working... especially a bartender, where they might promo drinks/freebies, make drinks stronger, get drink deals, etc. And works for bartender too... might like when friends bring friends (pretty girls) down to where they are as can make a place busier, or seem "happening".

JMO, MOO from my bartending days

The Corner Club is where the college kids hung out. It was the popular go to spot.

 

[DeViLintheDetaiL]

There may be 22,000 white 2011-2013 hyundai elantras in the united states. But logically, LE can rule out approximately 80 to 90% of those right off the bat. How many are registered within Moscow? How many in the county? How many within a 180 mile radius? How many reported stolen within a 300 mile radius? That’s pretty much it. Again, it’s an Idaho plate or it’s not. And LE probably knows whether it’s in or out of state.

I assumed 22,000 IS the number after accounting for all that..?

 

[lucidium]

Maybe they expressed some interest:

“Investigators spent Tuesday morning pulling surveillance video from the Mobil station on White Avenue and Highway 8, taking a full shift's worth of video from the fateful night.

The overnight manager, who asked not to be named because the killer is still on the loose, said she could not see inside the vehicle from the footage, but told DailyMail.com: 'It could be the one that police are looking for.'

And based on the Moscow Police Department's reaction to the footage, she said, 'It definitely seems like it could be something.'”

Idaho murder update: Clerk at gas station spots 'white sedan'

A clerk at an Idaho gas station may have spotted a white sedan speeding away from the scene of the University of Idaho students' off-campus house the night of the quadruple homicide.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I meant MPD has not confirmed anything or asked the public for help in locating the car on that video. (Though I have no idea if they would ever do that.) I would certainly expect them to review the video.

I think there is some possibility that the car on that video is the one they're searching for. The point I was trying to make is we do not know whether the driver of the vehicle on the video has come forward to police. If they did so and were innocent, there is no reason to expect public confirmation.