ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 33

[Leve]

And I have never heard of anyone committing suicide with a knife by stabbing themselves. It's almost always slashing - the neck or wrists, specifically.

Death investigation into teacher stabbed more than 20 times reopened after ruled suicide

Ellen Greenberg's family has long sought to get the 2011 suicide ruling changed to "homicide" or "undetermined."

abc7chicago.com

Stabbed 20 times and ruled a suicide.

I don't think that's the case here but it has happened.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

So you think photos taken by the press have to go through LE before they can be published?
I thought that may be the case years ago but did not think so today.

Just curious if anyone knows??

JMO

No I don't think LE can control that.

They can maybe set a boundary how close they get to a crime scene/taped off areas but I'm very much guessing. Maybe someone on the thread can confirm though.

 

[SadSadPanda]

Thank you so much! I was having trouble finding it.

Eesh...do we know if those pictures are all from the actual house? I'm looking at the (I believe) second pic where there's apparently blood running down the OUTSIDE of the house and that seems like a LOT, and it would have to go through the floor, walls, whatever to make its way outside from inside. It's also the only pic that doesn't specifically say in the tag that it's of the house, which makes me wonder if it's "real" or a photo they used for effect?

 

[drmrgrl]

We know from Maddie’s dad that Adam was the bartender <modsnip - rumor> I’d focus on whatever conflict occurred at the bar.

IMO, I wonder if someone got kicked out of the bar and later followed/tried to find out M and Ks identities.The killer found out where they lived and paid a visit later to enact his revenge.

 

[DizzyB]

And I have never heard of anyone committing suicide with a knife by stabbing themselves. It's almost always slashing - the neck or wrists, specifically.

There was a murder/suicide local to me where the suicide stabbed himself. It surprised me at the time (he didn’t slash his own throat or cut his wrists, it was a stab), so I read up on it.

When the Mayor came out and said it was a crime of passion, I wondered if they were thinking murder suicide. That changed quickly.

 

[Walela]

No I don't think LE can control that.

They can maybe set a boundary how close they get to a crime scene/taped off areas but I'm very much guessing. Maybe someone on the thread can confirm though.

LE does set boundaries on the ground with their crime scene tape but they do not control the air and many news agencies and independent news people use drones. I have heard of LE setting a no fly air boundary for helicopters and planes but I don't know if it would apply to drones.

 

[drmrgrl]

can you link to it?

found it

ETA:
Heating broke/ needed an adjustment

IMO, the heater had to work OT because the slider was left open.

 

[AngTxGal]

Actually the Ellen Greenberg case was first ruled a homicide then changed to a suicide and Now it is headed to court. Her parents want her 2011 death to be reclassified as a homicide.
It is a bit much to believe she stabbed herself 20 times and pushed a knife into her own chest that her fiancé could not see the handle well.
She was found by her fiancé, the 911 call is chilling.

CBS News article Nov 15, 2022

JMO

 

[Odeto BJ]

The desired consequence of gathering, preserving, analyzing, correlating and so on...all this evidence and what it means, would be a successful prosecution. IF LE were to share in an early and large proportion of that evidence and the consequences of the analysis with the public as a form of progress report, and that progress report started to narrow down the surviving count of alternatives, inevitably this community (WS and similar) as well as MSM would identify the culprit and then, potentially, chaos and vigilantism take reign.

As example; and obviously this is just hypothesizing: If full disclosure about the Hyundai as issued by LE went along the lines of: LE had an initial database of 22000; LE has reduced that to 4000 by utilizing these filters; 1-week later LE announces they have reduced it to 20; 1 week later they have it down to 4. The pressure from victim's family, MSM and similar, to reveal those (4), would be absolutely intense; and the exposure for those (4) could be life threatening but would at least be livelihood threatening, never mind that (3) of (4) would be suing for slander; emotional distress, etc. because they were positively not involved. Add to that: the 4th could simply be a witness and not the perpetrator.

Every scenario and sequence that has been espoused in these threads could be pursued and follow a sequence just like this until 1) the scenario is disproven so nobody hurt?! or 2) the scenario remains supported and those with the MMO to undertake the deed are identified and then the witch hunt begins....

The term "witch hunt" is not used lightly: English common law was rewritten and the US constituition was written with the miscarriages of those trials in mind; essentially to disenfranchise and outlaw mob justice. And for all that grandeur, lynchings that had no racial bias were still going on in the Eastern portion of the US through the 1940's long after any sensible person could rationalize such punishment as "frontier justice".

Point is: the reasons for keeping investigative materials close to the vest is well established and the integrity of the investigation is more fragile considering the avenues of appeal for those convicted have expanded extensively over the years and the exponential growth of digital data, video recording and news outlets have resulted in news cycles measured in minutes instead of days....

All my own opinion and offered as food for thought.

 

[Down To Earth]

My random recent observations:

For some reason I never realized the outfits K and M are wearing in the Twitch food truck video and the recent "Adam" video are the same outfits they were wearing in the common group photo that was taken earlier in the same day as the videos. It's not a significant observation, but it does suggest IMO that the night out for K and M was rather casual instead of something they primed and prepped for. I also remember when the food truck video dropped there were many comments about the baggy coat that M is wearing ("That can't be hers!"). At the time I rolled my eyes because baggy clothes are fashionable in M's age bracket. Or I thought maybe the jacket just belonged to a male who was with her group that might have been off camera or something. But in watching the Adam video, it seems less plausible that's actually M's jacket IMO. The sleeves are comically long, even for a Billie Eilish type look. Also, it doesn't appear there's another male that's tightly out with their little group - it's just the 3 of them (K, M, HG). I did a very quick google image search and don't see any older photos of M with that jacket (there's one of her in a similarish all-black top, but it doesn't appear to be the same thing IMO). I doubt the jacket is significant to anything but I'm just notating it because we're starving for clues.

Switching gears. There's a lot of speculation about a possible killer(s) profile based on what we know transpired during the crime. But in the absence of more information it might be worth looking at what we know didn't transpire during the crime.
It's been stated that it doesn't appear the home was burglarized. It's been stated that there doesn't appear to be evidence of sexual assault. We know the thief didn't steal any of the victims' or survivors' automobiles. What else that didn't happen is relevant to understanding what type of person(s) may have committed this crime? The tires on the cars weren't slashed prior to the crime or afterward. Things like that.

IMO some of that stuff may reduce the chances of the perp(s) being gang/drug related and the popular voyeur/stalker profle. Again IMO something gang or drug related would have probably also resulted in some type of obvious theft or property damage, which I know is just my pure personal opinion and nothing else. IMO I also think a stalker/voyeur would be likely to take a phone, laptop, or other electronic device that would give them access to more voyeurism than they would have had access to on public SM. Just more speculation of course.

I'm not throwing anything out as far as profile possibilities, I think just about everything is still on the table. I'm just using this quiet period to review what didn't happen.

 

[Mito]

That's a bit unsettling but oddly believable. JMO

He’d have to know who they were to do so…

Sloppy could also mean it was trampled all over by the many people who came into the residence before and after the 911 call.

killer was sloppy.it’s a quote maybe to insult the killer

 

[gliving]

IMO, perhaps the smell of blood, decomposition, vomit, urine, fecal incontinence etc would have been a big clue. That along with the open slider door would have made them suspicious.

Besides the door being open, if I went upstairs and smelled something awful, my first thought would be that Murphy had an bad potty accident.

(not saying that Murphy would ever do this, he's a good boy )

 

[gliving]

12-19-22 Investigation update with Moscow Police Chief James Fry​

 

[layer]

Sloppy could also mean it was trampled all over by the many people who came into the residence before and after the 911 call.

This ^
A sloppy crime scene and a sloppy killer are two very different things. And it should be noted that LE has never made any statements to that effect, either way.

 

[Down To Earth]

And I have never heard of anyone committing suicide with a knife by stabbing themselves. It's almost always slashing - the neck or wrists, specifically.

Artie Lange suicide attempt confirmed by police

This article was originally on a blog post platform and may be missing photos, graphics or links.

www.latimes.com

There's also musician Elliott Smith, but there has always been some controversy over whether he was actually murdered.

Those are just 2 famous examples. I'd guess there are many more than we'd imagine.

 

[indicolite22]

When the Mayor came out and said it was a crime of passion, I wondered if they were thinking murder suicide. That changed quickly.

SBM. Crime of passion = overkill?

 

[TIGER0822]

Can't shake off gut feeling about "friends" being called before police-somebody help me understand the best explanation so far. Contaminate crime scene for?

I am with you. The smell of blood would have been obvious. Human blood, which also contains water and iron, has a smell similar to rust. Without trying to be gross, us ladies would know. **I do not suspect any of the housemates.**

 

[layer]

Crime of passion = overkill?

Crime of passion = jump to conclusion?

 

[wary]

They do cut/puncture analysis on the wounds. Meaning the measure the angle which the blade went in. They can also attempt to determine the type of blade the velocity. But my point, if this were a suicide they would have determined it by this analysis and we would know this by now. Opinion Only.

I agree. They’d know by now, and they’d have informed us.

It was actually the first thing I thought of, when I first heard of these murders. And, I believe it was one of the first things that LE addressed, saying that it was not the case. (Note that if LE were lazy or cowardly, murder-suicide would be an easy out for them—not much investigation needed, no community fear, nothing to upset the university, etc.)

I think that the stab wounds told LE a lot: the handedness of the attacker, the order of the attacks, the strength of the attacker, the type of knife, who knows what else?

 

[drmrgrl]

He’d have to know who they were to do so…

killer was sloppy.it’s a quote maybe to insult the killer

IMO. The killer was drunk too.