ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 34

[AngTxGal]

1) You don't need to be a genius to know that a quick stab to the neck, lungs or heart would basically incapacitate the victim, unable to scream or generate any kind of fight that would be a problem.
…
2) The interesting part for mecomes from the second floor where the killer was either caught or fumbled in some way as there is not only blood leaking from the house down to the pipes, which would suggest that at least one of the victims didn't die in their bed, but also there was some struggle suggested by both the parents of Kaylee and Xana…
something went there at least that didn't go exactly according to plan.

I see what you posted as two mutually exclusive statements.

I think what happened proves my point, the killer took risks
They minimized these risks with planning
That planning includes knowledge of the human body, or bodies
And the plan mostly went as expected

Could ‘any hunter’ pull off face to face fatal stabbing of one human, two humans, three humans and then four humans through their chest? Not in my opinion

I’ve lived with and around hunters all my life. I know many seasoned hunters who get ‘buck fever’. When that happens they cannot maintain their breathing and heart rate to accurately hit a kill shot on a defenseless animal that is standing still, when they have the advantage of concealment, a rifle, and a scope.
Edit: Buck fever can happen to anyone, it also can be life threatening, it is an adrenaline rush that takes over and is tough to control. Hunters tease about it, but know it makes them human. Dad says ‘buck fever’ comes from respect for the animal and its life, and it is not inconsequential to take that life.
This was no typical hunter like those I’ve been around

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

They would hold off if they knew they didn’t have enough to make a conviction stick, or if the DA and Judge told them they needed more in order for them to sign off on a probable cause arrest warrant. There have been cases where a suspect has been arrested, and then is released for lack of enough evidence. That they obviously would want to avoid at all costs.

I would think they could find something to pick them up on and hold them while they searched their apartment and car.
This guy must be squeaking clean, or have important connections, or LE doesn’t have any idea who to put their sights on yet

JMO

 

[The OG]

The choice of the knife could mean a couple of things: 1) The murders were not planned and the killer took whatever weapon he had at hand; or 2) The murders were planned but the killer wanted to use a knife (i.e., he would not have been satisfied with just shooting his victims from yards away).

I lean towards the latter. I don't think the killer just wanted the victims dead - I think he wanted to experience the feeling of stabbing them to death. Which is why I think it's more likely a stranger with a lust to kill rather than somebody known to the victims.

A knife is quiet. He/she planned to kill and planned to get away without being caught.

 

[The OG]

I could be very wrong, but I'm concerned about LE focusing so intently on this mythical Elantra. What could they have that would lead them down this road? Video of it going in and out around the time of the murders? Even if it was the only such vehicle and they have definitive proof it is an Elantra, it proves nothing without a vital tip from the public. If they have a list of suspects, and one or more of them have a possible motive, uncorroborated alibi, and access to an Elantra, I believe someone would be in custody by now. Imvho, they have very little other than video footage from the neighborhood to lead them to a suspect. I expect there has to be some sort of physical evidence from the scene, but until they have someone with whom they can compare that evidence, they are stuck. Someone needs to come forward to break this open.

 

[z0mer]

For those who think this killing was either an act of rage by an acquaintance or a chemically fueled event, what's your take on LE's persistent focus on the white Elantra? Was the Elantra instrumental to the murders, and if so, how?

Well, there is a white/light coloured sedan going towards the house at 3:00 and the Hyundai is spotted at the gas station around 3:45. I suspect that's the link they are making (they probably/hopefully have more information). If that's the actual killer it suggest in my opinion that they knew their steps that night somehow.

 

[ilovewings]

I could be very wrong, but I'm concerned about LE focusing so intently on this mythical Elantra. What could they have that would lead them down this road? Video of it going in and out around the time of the murders? Even if it was the only such vehicle and they have definitive proof it is an Elantra, it proves nothing without a vital tip from the public. If they have a list of suspects, and one or more of them have a possible motive, uncorroborated alibi, and access to an Elantra, I believe someone would be in custody by now. Imvho, they have very little other than video footage from the neighborhood to lead them to a suspect. I expect there has to be some sort of physical evidence from the scene, but until they have someone with whom they can compare that evidence, they are stuck. Someone needs to come forward to break this open.

I have been surprised, after watching so much true crime, how many cases are solved with tips -- often the police are stalled in their investigation until they get that break which is often a tip from someone close to the perp/related to the perp. I too hope someone comes forward to break this case open.

 

[AngTxGal]

I could be very wrong, but I'm concerned about LE focusing so intently on this mythical Elantra. What could they have that would lead them down this road? Video of it going in and out around the time of the murders? Even if it was the only such vehicle and they have definitive proof it is an Elantra, it proves nothing without a vital tip from the public. If they have a list of suspects, and one or more of them have a possible motive, uncorroborated alibi, and access to an Elantra, I believe someone would be in custody by now. Imvho, they have very little other than video footage from the neighborhood to lead them to a suspect. I expect there has to be some sort of physical evidence from the scene, but until they have someone with whom they can compare that evidence, they are stuck. Someone needs to come forward to break this open.

Evidently that Elantra is important, maybe it was seen by more than one person in those wee hours near the house? The fact that a person still has not come forward to say they were in the area seems odd

Who would be moving about during those wee hours to see and hear somethign?
We know one neighbor was, he is a chef.
What other chefs got off at that time and live in the area?
Security guards?
Door dash delivery?
Police officers?
Drinkers ending their night?
Frat boys running across the street?
We also know the girls talked to a bartender, who some say was J’s roommate and lived near the Kings Road home. He would have done cleanup/Locked up and if he drove straight home he may have arrived 2:30-3AM?
What did Adam see or hear?

JMO

 

[detectivehomemom]

Unless they have a serial killer you would think a motive would come about fairly easy. I imagine they are looking at all the victims communications, but also the families of the victims and of the survivors. This case could take forever. Motive could be related to a family member. This terrible of a murder there has to be a big motive.

 

[Helechawagirl]

Well, there is a white/light coloured sedan going towards the house at 3:00 and the Hyundai is spotted at the gas station around 3:45. I suspect that's the link they are making (they probably/hopefully have more information). If that's the actual killer it suggest in my opinion that they knew their steps that night somehow.

Wonder if there’s any connection from the first few days when they said the murders were between 3 and 4 am?

 

[Olivia Reed]

Ive followed all the threads from day one.. my hypothesis hasn’t changed from #18
The house layout
No sign of breakin
The Dog not barking
Four young people stabbed with a fix blade knife
The perp was quiet, knew his way around the house, killed quickly, left without a trace… Possibly in a white car and he managed to avoid cameras out of town
The perp was physically strong, focused and efficient..IMO..he has SAS or military training, it wasn’t personal, he had a job to do and he did it…. I’m going with a ‘hit job’ someone did it for money or because they owed someone else….

 

[Justice101]

I was reading that one similar knife murder with 2 victims was from a person with 2 degrees of separation from either of the 2 victims.

That is: A friend of the victim who gave advice to the victim to dump her boyfriend. When her (dumped) boyfriend found out about the conversation, he did not take it out on his ex-girlfriend, but on the victim who talked with his ex-girlfriend about it.

The murderer WAS NOT SOMEONE DIRECTLY LINKED TO THE VICTIM and was not a stranger either, and was not even known to investigators for a long time until an obscure fact was disclosed to the public and this brought the ex-boyfriend of the friend into the picture.

I wonder if that could be something similar.

Who knows? Certainly not me.

In this Moscow Idaho case, once they isolate the DNA from the murderer and get no hits from the DNA profile, I'll bet they go straight to genealogical databases...and run the profile thru there to see what ancestry the individual has and more importantly, who might be related.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Wonder if there’s any connection from the first few days when they said the murders were between 3 and 4 am?

Funny you should say that. I've been sat here mulling this over! I just read what the Chief said in one of his brief updates on 8th Dec.

---

Chief - So, we have information of a white vehicle that was in the area either, during the time frame of the homicide or around the time frame of the homicide, and we're just wanting to talk to the individuals who were in that vehicle.

---

He's still set on the time of the murders. Why??. All the trials I've watched the ME has never definitely been able to give such a specific time of death as the Chief has. This was even before the ME had finished the autopsies.

 

[OrlandoJames]

Unless they have a serial killer you would think a motive would come about fairly easy. I imagine they are looking at all the victims communications, but also the families of the victims and of the survivors. This case could take forever. Motive could be related to a family member. This terrible of a murder there has to be a big motive.

What 'motive' could there be for somebody to slaughter four college students? And to do so in such a careful and planned way? Sometimes the killing is the motive - the perpetrator wants to commit a violent murder and is just looking for the right opportunity to achieve this.

I suspect this is what we're looking at here rather than a complicated tale of deceit/jealousy/vengeance or whatever. So very possibly a serial killer.

 

[SMK777]

Someone needs to come forward to break this open.

That’s what I keep hoping: That someone knows something and will finally come forward. From many years of reading true crime books, I’ve seen that in many cases, that’s the only way it finally breaks.

 

[JackieBrown]

Random theory on ID of perp, MOO.

Two victims worked at a restaurant. Restaurants commonly have food distributors and delivery drivers from out of town. No one in Moscow, at least, would likely know a delivery guy’s personal vehicle, since he would arrive in Moscow in work truck. You could apply this theory to other types of workers who do not drive personal vehicles into Moscow, but may have had interactions with vics in the course of the job.

 

[Cryptic]

Why is the number one question on everyone's minds. What does personal mean when there were 4 victims? Doubtful there was a vendetta against all 4.

"Sometimes people can be part of a whole that transcends themselves as individuals."

Leaving the fake mysticism aside....

The possible rage vendetta against all four might be better understood by looking at the motive from the perspective of having a vendetta against "the house". Another poster (wish I could give credit by name) raised this possible motive where "the house" is targeted:

- Victims live in a "party house" and host alot of informal social gatherings and full on parties.

- Somebody is then "uninvited" from a social gathering as he makes one of the females residents, or another female guest uncomfortable.

- This is extremely humiliating for him. Perhaps he viewed his expected welcomed presence to be his opportunity to connect with attractive, socially confident women with out being rejected- again. Perhaps his ego expects to be welcomed everywhere by all.

- Rage builds. Maybe it was a house resident who wanted him gone, maybe it was a house resident (male) who booted him out. Or, maybe a guest was uncomfortable, but.... a resident or two of the house affirmed his kick out.

But in the end, it was the gathering / party that stood against him. And, that the focal point of the gathering / party is The House- even if not all the residents were present at his humiliation. He then attacks the home wanting to harm say, one resident in particular, but also wants to harm the house as a whole.

 

[SMK777]

What 'motive' could there be for somebody to slaughter four college students? And to do so in such a careful and planned way? Sometimes the killing is the motive - the perpetrator wants to commit a violent murder and is just looking for the right opportunity to achieve this.

I suspect this is what we're looking at here rather than a tangled personal tale of deceit/jealousy/vengeance or whatever. So very possibly a serial killer.

I still think it could be possible that he came to murder one, and was surprised to encounter one more, and then another two. Adrenaline took over, because it was do or die.

 

[NuttMegg]

I could be very wrong, but I'm concerned about LE focusing so intently on this mythical Elantra. What could they have that would lead them down this road? Video of it going in and out around the time of the murders? Even if it was the only such vehicle and they have definitive proof it is an Elantra, it proves nothing without a vital tip from the public. If they have a list of suspects, and one or more of them have a possible motive, uncorroborated alibi, and access to an Elantra, I believe someone would be in custody by now. Imvho, they have very little other than video footage from the neighborhood to lead them to a suspect. I expect there has to be some sort of physical evidence from the scene, but until they have someone with whom they can compare that evidence, they are stuck. Someone needs to come forward to break this open.

The murderer would have to lack a functioning brain to come/go in a car so close to the scene. Much less have a getaway accomplice.
I don't think LE would invent a red herring, but this was released, (re car) about the time 2 of the parents were getting a PI and/or a lawyer, to try to extract details from LE. Imo

So I'm satisfied that there is video of such a car, and that LE would like to locate the occupant(s), but I also think that the online focus on this car lets them get on with solving the case with more important lines of investigation.

Imo

 

[SMK777]

"Sometimes people can be part of a whole that transcends themselves as individuals."

Leaving the fake mysticism aside....

The possible rage vendetta against all four might be better understood by looking at the motive from the perspective of having a vendetta against "the house".

Another poster (wish I could give credit by name) raised this possible motive where the "house" is targeted:

- Victims live in a "party house" and host alot of informal social gatherings and full on parties.

- Somebody is then "uninvited" from a social gathering as he makes one of the females residents, or another female guest uncomfortable.

- This is extremely humiliating for him. Perhaps he viewed his expected welcomed presence to be his opportunity to connect with attractive, socially confident women with out being rejected- again. Perhaps his ego expects to be welcomed everywhere by all.

- Rage builds. Maybe it was a house resident who wanted him gone, maybe it was a house resident (male) who booted him out. Or, maybe a guest was uncomfortable, but.... a resident or two of the house affirmed his kick out.

But in the end, it was the gathering / party that stood against him. And, that the focal point of the gathering / party is The House- even if not all the residents were present at his humiliation. He then attacks the home wanting to harm say, one resident in particular, but also wants to harm the house as a whole.

Yes, that’s quite possible. And that would mean it was not necessarily someone in the victims’ circle, but someone on the periphery— perhaps someone who they weren’t even thinking about anymore at that point.

Could explain why he hasn’t been caught: his name may not even have come up yet.

 

[AngTxGal]

Funny you should say that. I've been sat here mulling this over! I just read what the Chief said in one of his brief updates on 8th Dec.

---

Chief - So, we have information of a white vehicle that was in the area either, during the time frame of the homicide or around the time frame of the homicide, and we're just wanting to talk to the individuals who were in that vehicle.

---

He's still set on the time of the murders. Why??. All the trials I've watched the ME has never definitely been able to give such a specific time of death as the Chief has. This was even before the ME had finished the autopsies.

I’ve also been curious about how PD can put such an early time stamp on the times of death.

Last texts went out 2:52AM or so from K’s phone, presumably by her
Bodies discovered near 11:58AM after 911 call due to discovering of unconscious person by roommate
That is nine hours

What event happened in the morning to allow them to say the perp was gone from the scene by 5 or 6AM? Dawn?

JMO