ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[drmrgrl]

Neighbors have killed over less. IMO. Which is one reason why it's so hard to get a grasp on this case - we could probably list 20-30 possible motives.

IMO The LE citations?

 

[lucidium]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't hear him say the quote you are referring to above. I did hear him say around the 4:03 mark in the video "We're not sure exactly where the individual is". I feel that this means they possibly know who they are but just not where.

JMO

I highly doubt it. Why wouldn't LE would want the public to know that information?

ETA: This theory means either he slipped up in revealing that info, or he deliberately stated it in a subtle way. I don't buy it.

As I've said before, I do not think it's a good idea to parse every little word choice from any interview. People don't have time to carefully think about what they are saying, so miscommunication is almost guaranteed. Written statements that go through a review, editing, and approval process, are more likely to be worded carefully to avoid ambiguities.

 

[10ofRods]

And what about seat fibers? the reason I ask is because in the PNW it tends to get a little snowy/muddy/wet, and 11-12 yo car mats might be replaced IMO. So if the car was older or newer, the mats might not be original ones. JMO and spitballing here.

I believe there have to be databases for seat fibers as well. I too am just spitballing - but it did occur to me that there was a reason, based on evidence found in the actual crime scene (specifically, in the intimate zone of the victims).

Even if the car is never found, such data could link a particular person to the crime if they were observed driving or in possession of an Elantra. At any rate, LE would have an obligation to try and find that car.

I just keep thinking that they have more than a vague idea why they want the Elantra. And, not coincidentally, the perp knows that he's now associated with an Elantra. That's gotta be concerning to him.

 

[AngTxGal]

There is even the possibility that the plan was to go talk to someone, not to kill, and it spiraled out of control.

But I don't think this was hate in the killers mind, per se. I think it is justified in the killers mind as the victims deserved it. For whatever warped reason and it could be envy or jealousy and that does not have to equal hate.

I can see rage as the emotion for the moment, and repeated rages leading to hate.

What makes you think some one went to the house to talk and it spiraled out of control?
That implies the killer was let inside, very different than what I’d imagined- him gaining entry after they went to sleep.

Just curious what makes you think that? Did they leave and go get the knife and return?
Argue with a male neighbor?
A known guy interest?
Guy met earlier in the night?

JMO

 

[Trino]

As someone who works for a large, successful, high volume USED dealership the last 6 years and knows Hyundai Elantras better than the average human being (I am not bragging, trust me) - I would be happy to help explain to you why the reasoning is considered more than reasonable.

If you are releasing information to the general public, regarding 3 different years that the Hyundai Elantra could possibly be AND asking for their help - it screamed to me that even LE doesn’t know what they are looking at. If they are confident it’s a Hyundai, great. Calling it an Elantra ranging several years - crap confidence level.

How would people help LE by looking at a white Elantra and thinking “that’s got to be a 2011-2013.” Or “let me ask this random guy who could possibly be a murderer what year his car is and see if I got a winner!”

THE ONLY WAY THE GENERAL PUBLIC COULD POSSIBLY HELP IDENTIFY THE VEHICLE YEAR IS BY RUNNING UP TO THE CAR PHYSICALLY AND SCANNING THE VIN ON THE WINDSHIELD.

This vehicle image that is circulating doesn’t show a sharp image of it being a Hyundai does it? Let’s give LE benefit of the doubt quick because I’m not trying to NOT trust them or say to not trust them. Let’s say it’s a Hyundai for sure (I can list atleast 3 other manufacture names, models and trims that I thought of while looking at the image of the vehicle for what it’s worth) . Go look up a 2019 Hyundai ioniq. It’s just so vague and dangerous to have ranging years when lots of people will assume the year of an Elantra and think it’s a 2011-2013 because they don’t know cars well enough. It’s irresponsible.

How many 2011-2013 Elantras have been sold and re-sold? Almost seems irresponsible to put this description out there. If I had one, I would be paranoid.

 

[OrlandoJames]

Ok.IMO this indicates the LE has someone in mind, but really don’t know where the person is. Take this at face value. I think they know who did it, but can’t locate.

If this was the case, wouldn’t they be appealing to the public to help find him?

 

[drmrgrl]

I believe there have to be databases for seat fibers as well. I too am just spitballing - but it did occur to me that there was a reason, based on evidence found in the actual crime scene (specifically, in the intimate zone of the victims).

Even if the car is never found, such data could link a particular person to the crime if they were observed driving or in possession of an Elantra. At any rate, LE would have an obligation to try and find that car.

I just keep thinking that they have more than a vague idea why they want the Elantra. And, not coincidentally, the perp knows that he's now associated with an Elantra. That's gotta be concerning to him.

IMO, not if he got rid of the vehicle.

 

[10ofRods]

IMO I think the motive is someone not being included, someone who wanted desperately to be part of the group. I will be shocked if it's something other than this only because it seems like most killings these days involve something along these lines. Or bullying.

Interesting - and I would not argue with you.

I think this is a higher possibility than Neighbor Wars. And this person and their issues could overlap with many different other conflict-ridden interactions with one or more members of the victim group.

IOW, this person could also be a neighbor or within the zones indicated by LE as their areas of local interest.

 

[Curious Me]

MSN article:

MSN

“They had their food, and they were super excited about their mac and cheese as girls are after they go to the club,” he recalled.

[...]

The cabbie said the two friends sat in the back and chatted, but never mentioned anyone named “Adam,” who was invoked in a surveillance video earlier in the night featuring one of the girls.

“They were normal just like any other night. They weren’t upset about anything or talking about anyone,” the taxi driver noted. “There was no nervousness about them. They weren’t afraid of anybody. There was nobody following them or following us.”

The driver recalled that he let Gonclaves and Mogen out of the car on the street outside their home, rather than in the driveway, and left without waiting for them to enter the residence.
BBM

also at Daily Mail article: Driver who dropped off Idaho students at murder house breaks silence​

 

[jumpingjackflash]

I don't think that interview means anything at all.
Just because they didn't continue the conversation in front of a driver and acted happy doesn't mean the prior conversation wasn't serious.
I certainly wouldn't dismiss as a nothing burger based on a guy who claims he drove them a lot in an interview in the Daily Mirror.... 4 weeks later.

I held the same opinion of the video footage before the interview was released. I think it's irresponsible to speculate about potential motives of specific individuals based on a seconds-long clip of a conversation between two victims. There's no way to ever know the meaning of that conversation because both K and M are dead.

 

[Ur728]

If this was the case, wouldn’t they be appealing to the public to help find him?

I think this person is on the run and they don't want them to be alarmed. Maybe they want the person to relax thinking they're not onto them so they may come back to the area. JMO

 

[Aquarian]

Ok.IMO this indicates the LE has someone in mind, but really don’t know where the person is. Take this at face value. I think they know who did it, but can’t locate.

Yea, Ive been thinking he and the vehicle are MIA. I suppose it may not have stood out since everyone took off after the murders, then Thanksgiving and now with Christmas. Going through the remote learners, if a student will help, but if not a student, that’s going to be tough.

 

[gliving]

According to the individual who drove M and K home that night, they talked about food . I see the exchange captured on video as a nothingburger and a distraction, because it's devoid of the context that would be required to understand its meaning.

Driver who dropped off Idaho students at murder house breaks silence

I do agree with this; that it's probably about something silly. Still, what if "everything" is a big somethingburger and they knew better than to talk about it in front of the driver? So they talk about their pasta.

 

[Arkay]

Much has been speculated about the meaning of the conversation between Kaylee and Maddie ....The I told Adam Everything conversation.
One theory that Maddie told Adam that Kaylee was done with her relationship with Jack D. and Adam, both a friend and roommate or former roommate of Jack's, passed on that information.
That doesn't make sense to me. That would be breaking girl code to interfere in a relationship like that without permission. Kaylee's tone sounds like she's not thrilled when she's heard about it.
What makes more sense to me is if Maddie told Adam Kaylee was scared of someone and gave examples of things the person had been doing, stalking ect.
That Maddie was taking it seriously and Kaylee wasn't or wasn't ready to confront the situation yet....and Maddie decided to act.
The fact that Adam was a bartender opens up his view of their social interactions . Maddie might have chosen him because the person was known to frequent the bar in addition to his relationship with Kaylee's ex.

IMO the Adam conversation is actually fortunate, because Adam is known, not a mystery, and he has been interviewed by the police.

Therefore, IMO we don't even need to expend our energy in speculating about what "I told Adam everything" could possibly mean.

Adam is right there to explain it.

Whether Adam tells the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is for LE to figure out, but just for me personally, there are many others things which mystify me more and about which we still are speculating wildly.

Jmo

 

[Ceska]

I just have no understanding of greek life, or college party life, so I would be 100% guessing. I'm 60 and I was floored that there was a party going on when none of the residents was even there, and another poster thought it was hilarious that anyone even thought that was strange. Clearly, I am not the right demographic to draw conclusions on that situation. LOL

I will say that anywhere you have a mix of people and personalities, I think there is the potential for a conflict serious enough to end in murder. I would be shocked to learn that it was someone from the neighborhood pissed off about the parties. I would have expected more escalation between calling the police to complain about noise and murder. Maybe there has been more escalation and we just don't know it. But I would also think calling the police repeatedly about the noise and then killing them is a great way to make yourself an early suspect.

Same here. When I watched the video, I was stunned to see that a party was going on and no residents were even home. Seems dangerous. And I can't help but think about the poor dog being there in all of that ruckus and commotion. I wonder how many times police had been called to the house.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

To my knowledge, there was never an APB or a BOLO for this vehicle.

At least there was in Canada:

Border agents 'on lookout' for white car seen near Idaho murder house

and imo seems LE in WA and OR were looking even if it wasn't officially announced but that's what it seems like to me, not official BOLO that I saw. ICBW

IMO the car is likely in a garage or under a tarp.

or maybe in a field in the Idaho snow, with the inside burned and the doors left open after it was trashed inside, and all manner of creature using it as shelter or whatever. imo it would make as much sense to leave a car open to the elements as it would to leave a body in the open.

And here's some light holiday reading that may be a logical segue from the hired killers searches lol: Death Scene Investigation from the Viewpoint of Forensic Medicine Expert

He was enraged by being spurned as psychopaths imagine a relationship that does not exists and rage when spurned as asking to be boyfriend or go on date etc., or could be jealous.

This is what I imagine - an obsession - not IRL, but IMO we all frame our opinions and ideas through our personal lens, what we've experienced, have knowledge of, can relate to, etc. that is JMO, not the results of a formal study, however. The reason I mention this is because if this is more of a predator perp, then motive is much harder to ID, and can be a waste of some time. IDK. @10ofRods -- can you speak to motive in this regard?

IMO this killer has done this before in some manner, and I wouldn't be surprised to see someone older, someone who's had time to let the hate fester into something truly vile and ready to act. JMO JMO JMO. I've also got money on related to "a" college or university, but not necessarily the university in question - again JMO.

I am not saying that this is a predator of any sort (though IMO which is JMO and not worth much, it could be) but what the FBI wrote about motive here is a good takeaway re those types of killers:

Serial Murder | Federal Bureau of Investigation

www.fbi.gov

 

[JusMeJim]

There was some discussion in "Thread #35" about the co-mingling of blood and what it could prove. I'm somewhat familiar with DNA, as it relates to genealogy, but have a question about the "co-mingling" that was discussed and the fact that it could determine the order of death.

My question is probably best asked by using an example. If my wife and I both gave blood and they were to take some of her blood and some of my blood and mix it up and then test it for DNA would they be able to extract her exact DNA and my exact DNA from that mixed sample?

 

[vls12345]

Just catching up after days.... This has probably already been posted but I thought I would post it here:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1606371265530429443

 

[Aquarian]

I believe there have to be databases for seat fibers as well. I too am just spitballing - but it did occur to me that there was a reason, based on evidence found in the actual crime scene (specifically, in the intimate zone of the victims).

Even if the car is never found, such data could link a particular person to the crime if they were observed driving or in possession of an Elantra. At any rate, LE would have an obligation to try and find that car.

I just keep thinking that they have more than a vague idea why they want the Elantra. And, not coincidentally, the perp knows that he's now associated with an Elantra. That's gotta be concerning to him.

They have found people on good old Forensic Files matching old van carpeting with their data base of carpet etc. So they have resources, so I would think it could be done, as well as contacting Hyundai no?

 

[MountainDad]

Thanks for sharing! That was beautiful and sad at the same time.IMO

IMO, he will suffer with guilt for a long time, but it isn’t necessary. He didn’t do anythining

As someone who works for a large, successful, high volume USED dealership the last 6 years and knows Hyundai Elantras better than the average human being (I am not bragging, trust me) - I would be happy to help explain to you why the reasoning is considered more than reasonable.

If you are releasing information to the general public, regarding 3 different years that the Hyundai Elantra could possibly be AND asking for their help - it screamed to me that even LE doesn’t know what they are looking at. If they are confident it’s a Hyundai, great. Calling it an Elantra ranging several years - crap confidence level.

How would people help LE by looking at a white Elantra and thinking “that’s got to be a 2011-2013.” Or “let me ask this random guy who could possibly be a murderer what year his car is and see if I got a winner!”

THE ONLY WAY THE GENERAL PUBLIC COULD POSSIBLY HELP IDENTIFY THE VEHICLE YEAR IS BY RUNNING UP TO THE CAR PHYSICALLY AND SCANNING THE VIN ON THE WINDSHIELD.

This vehicle image that is circulating doesn’t show a sharp image of it being a Hyundai does it? Let’s give LE benefit of the doubt quick because I’m not trying to NOT trust them or say to not trust them. Let’s say it’s a Hyundai for sure (I can list atleast 3 other manufacture names, models and trims that I thought of while looking at the image of the vehicle for what it’s worth) . Go look up a 2019 Hyundai ioniq. It’s just so vague and dangerous to have ranging years when lots of people will assume the year of an Elantra and think it’s a 2011-2013 because they don’t know cars well enough. It’s irresponsible.

People did photo the vin on the car in Oregon, contacted and threatened the owner. That owner has a lawsuit IMO. Many photos of people's Hyundai's parked in their driveways or on the street, some including license plate numbers.

What if LE put out a presser saying it is critical to speak with someone that was wearing a 2011-2013 White Nike Air Jordan tennis shoe who they believe has crucial info and was there on the night of the murders? There are only 22000 sold and they are going through the list. Be aware of people wearing these shoes, and report if someone in your family might wear these shoes, but has recently stopped wearing?