ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

[layer]

This case is similar to the college killings in 1990 at The University of Florida at Gainesville.

It is! Rolling, when captured, said he was just trying to show his father that he was "good at something." This is why I don't get involved in trying to figure out the motivations of psychopaths.
In this case, there is no way of knowing whether or not it was a psychopath, so there could actually be a motive that makes some kind of sense.

 

[drmrgrl]

Yes, it’s good to go through all scenarios and I agree, it’s such a strange case. Incredibly weird. But I can’t imagine someone with a grievance against their landlord would stab four innocent tenants to death…I just can’t see that at all.

No grievance with the landlord-grievance with the roommates

 

[billy0312]

MOO, the revenge angle makes sense to me too. I don’t subscribe to the theory that two college kids (or more) conspire to commit capital murder X4 to cover up crimes like drugs, SA or hazing. Perhaps that motive might explain why the killer(s) went to the apartment but the perp brought a knife for the purpose killing. Waited for the victims to fall asleep. Again IMHO this murder has the signs of long, simmering rage.

Maybe I am imagining things but does that look like blood where the dog is sniffing?

It looks like blood to me.

 

[di anna]

this article is so heartbreaking.

Oh, bless his heart and the mom's also. So difficult.

 

[detectivewannab]

It is! Rolling, when captured, said he was just trying to show his father that he was "good at something." This is why I don't get involved in trying to figure out the motivations of psychopaths.
In this case, there is no way of knowing whether or not it was a psychopath, so there could actually be a motive that makes some kind of sense.

I just watch How it Happened on Discovery. He even used a K-Bar.

 

[Strong1]

Nancy Grace had a shoe print on her site purported to be from the crime scene.

Of course she did

 

[SRWCF]

Trying this again: Section 49-944 – Idaho State Legislature

This is ID state legislature re window tinting @TooMuchGun

That's strictly enforced, too. I live in Idaho and my husband got his car windows tinted. The company doing it explained the law to him and said they could go as dark as he wanted, but the tinting company's liability would be absolutely ZERO if my husband got pulled over due to windows that were too dark.

 

[10ofRods]

From what I understand the company is Extreme Network Securities.
It is a growing global company, so she may have had several locations as to where she could if they were that impressed with her work. She did her internship remotely from Idaho.

What wasn’t mentioned is a long distance relationship for a semester then make a decision to locate to the same city. I would say them dating for five years then her asking to ’take a break’, her graduating and her moving a plane ride away are pretty good signs together.

I would not say it is common for graduates to move that far away from home, but I don’t think that part of the story is related to the Murders.
My belief is the perp is not anyone that has been on the radar in MSM or social media.

JMO

Do you have a link for that? It looks like MSM is misreporting and spelling it wrong.

It's Xtreme Network Solutions. Extreme is a different Austin company.

 

[SRWCF]

How academic is the University of Idaho? I know that some universities are
more sports oriented than others. In other words is UI a academic oriented
university or more oriented towards sports? This would be important in discernment of the temperature of competitiveness.

I live in Idaho and we have 2 large universities: the University of Idaho in Moscow and Boise State University in Boise. Kids go to the U of I primarily for academics or if they just live nearby. Kids choose Boise State for athletics, especially football, or if they just live nearby.

ETA - the Innocence Project operates out of Boise State, which surprises me. I always thought they were up in Moscow. Anyway, they do great work. They helped free Amanda Knox when she was wrongly jailed in Italy for the murder of Meredith Kercher years ago.

Idaho Innocence Project

About the Idaho Innocence Project The Idaho Innocence Project is part of the Forensic Justice...

www.boisestate.edu

 

[10ofRods]

M&K were in a car that passed by he neighbor's cam. E&X may have walked from the frat house across Taylor, up the path that led straight to the crime scene house. If so, they wouldn't have passed on the street in front of the neighbor's cam. MOO

Source for that? Is it your (unfounded) opinion that the neighbor's cam caught the car? It seems to me that you must either have insider knowledge or MSM is simply not reporting on that.

Where are you reading about K and M being in a car that passed by a neighbor's cam? Needs to be in the media thread for sure.

 

[JusMeJim]

How can Joe Public help with DNA identification for example? We don't know what LE is working on behind the scenes. When they could benefit from public's help, they'll let us know.

There are genealogy sites that literally have DNA that would match almost anyone. My wife and I have both had our DNA done for genealogical purposes and we both have in the vicinity of 10K matches. One site in particular allows a person to let their DNA be available to police agencies (my wife and I have both opted into this).

So in essence if the police can get a DNA sample that they feel belongs to the perpetrator, there are MANY databases or sites in which they can look for a match. That match could be a very distant relative that only matches a small percent of DNA. In some cases it might require that they actually "build" a family tree for the matching person until they find who they are looking for.

 

[Breakout]

I know this Ex-FBI agents theory is just that, own personal theory, but I think it’s a good one personally.

I believe what is stated in the article, paraphrasing here, but it says that because it hasn’t been solved yet they believe LE has moved away from the inner circle to someone either unknown or on the outer circle.

One thing that made an impact on me is that the police officer in one of the body cam videos (September noise complaint, I think) said something along the lines of the house being an “unofficial sorority house.” It has that reputation and because of that reputation could be a sinister focus of a male bent on making females pay for their perceived transgressions against him. However, the perp would have to have enough of a connection to the Moscow community to know this. He could be a student who was rejected by the Greek community; a male turned down by a sorority sister; or just a person with a vendetta against women.

I am not sure if U of I have a campus police department or if Moscow police patrol campus. I hope they are looking at current or former male students who have come to the attention of campus authorities.

 

[drmrgrl]

We know there was a knife involved, we don‘t know if it was serrated or if it was a KaBar

We know he used it, we don’t know if he had a sheath or held it the whole time, or it was pre-stashed in the house, or had a kill kit hidden in the yard, or it was in the house already

We know that the knife has not been found- we don’t know if he took it with him, hid it in the house or stashed it in the yard, tossed it somewhere, sold it, or destroyed it

Agree it was pre planned, or an alignment of the stars and luck that is highly unlikely

Don’t agree it was ‘sloppy’ as I haven’t a clue what that means in this context
We know he hasn’t been caught
We know this was a brutal stabbing of four victims
Can a stabbing be done with precision, cleanliness, less sloppy? I’m not sure it can

JMO

And the knife was LARGE-no pocketknives

 

[drmrgrl]

We know there was a knife involved, we don‘t know if it was serrated or if it was a KaBar

We know he used it, we don’t know if he had a sheath or held it the whole time, or it was pre-stashed in the house, or had a kill kit hidden in the yard, or it was in the house already

We know that the knife has not been found- we don’t know if he took it with him, hid it in the house or stashed it in the yard, tossed it somewhere, sold it, or destroyed it

Agree it was pre planned, or an alignment of the stars and luck that is highly unlikely

Don’t agree it was ‘sloppy’ as I haven’t a clue what that means in this context
We know he hasn’t been caught
We know this was a brutal stabbing of four victims
Can a stabbing be done with precision, cleanliness, less sloppy? I’m not sure it can

JMO

IMO, I take the “sloppy” to mean messy-blood dripping down the walls, blood spatter/backsplatter on the walls, pools of blood on the carpet or floor. If on the floor, the blood was slippery, handprints in blood, shoe prints in blood, fingerprints in blood, blood possibly washed off in a sink or blood within a shower. I know this is really gross.

 

[10ofRods]

If I'm not mistaken, you have actually been involved in the collection of DNA swabs from suspects in criminal cases. I should have just directed my response to you.

I do not collect swabs (or operate forensic vacuum cleaners) at crime scenes. I get called in as a team consultant to explain DNA results (particularly partial ones) to LE (who generally do not have a lot of background in genetics or biology).

I used to go to crime scenes more often than I do now, and forensics has gotten way more sophisticated with each passing year.

But the basic pattern, which is to carefully start with swabs of the victim's body, pause, more swabs after the body has been initially moved in preparation for removal from the scene, is still true. The bedding (in this case) and the blood in the bedding would be swabbed - but I would expect the bedding to be preserved altogether (we haven't seen any proof one way or another of that - it doesn't need to be the entire mattress).

I collect DNA swabs from living people, sometimes in relationship to a crime, often in an open-ended investigation. By this I mean, I am the person who explains what the swabs will be used for, encourages the donor to swab themselves, has the person put the swab in solution, close it and put it in a forensic bag of some kind. Getting living humans to donate DNA (for any purpose) is not a sure thing. It helps if the person in my role has something in common with the people being asked, and in mental hospitals, patients are often more cooperative with a woman handler. I can get reference populations to cooperate with swabbing. I am then part of analyzing the results. I take extensive genealogies, aided by prior DNA analysis (and by GEDMatch, academic testing of DNA - there's lots, and of course, public records if that's needed).

But I've never taken swabs under the direction of an investigator (FBI or otherwise) who wanted a wide band of DNA from a community (I've never heard of that happening in my region, either).

I also have brainstormed with LE about how best to obtain a POI's touch DNA, but LE is way better at the actual scenarios, I'm just there to point out potential difficulties.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

How academic is the University of Idaho? I know that some universities are
more sports oriented than others. In other words is UI a academic oriented
university or more oriented towards sports? This would be important in discernment of the temperature of competitiveness.

Here's a recent ranking from USNews, top 40% and a great value per this:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/university-of-idaho-1626

 

[layer]

Source for that? Is it your (unfounded) opinion that the neighbor's cam caught the car? It seems to me that you must either have insider knowledge or MSM is simply not reporting on that.

Where are you reading about K and M being in a car that passed by a neighbor's cam? Needs to be in the media thread for sure.

I'm just guessing, but maybe Sunny was referring to this, from K's sister A:

“I found neighbors’ ring camera footage so that I could verify that the Uber driver took them home”

 

[layer]

I do not collect swabs (or operate forensic vacuum cleaners) at crime scenes. I get called in as a team consultant to explain DNA results (particularly partial ones) to LE (who generally do not have a lot of background in genetics or biology).

I used to go to crime scenes more often than I do now, and forensics has gotten way more sophisticated with each passing year.

But the basic pattern, which is to carefully start with swabs of the victim's body, pause, more swabs after the body has been initially moved in preparation for removal from the scene, is still true. The bedding (in this case) and the blood in the bedding would be swabbed - but I would expect the bedding to be preserved altogether (we haven't seen any proof one way or another of that - it doesn't need to be the entire mattress).

I collect DNA swabs from living people, sometimes in relationship to a crime, often in an open-ended investigation. By this I mean, I am the person who explains what the swabs will be used for, encourages the donor to swab themselves, has the person put the swab in solution, close it and put it in a forensic bag of some kind. Getting living humans to donate DNA (for any purpose) is not a sure thing. It helps if the person in my role has something in common with the people being asked, and in mental hospitals, patients are often more cooperative with a woman handler. I can get reference populations to cooperate with swabbing. I am then part of analyzing the results. I take extensive genealogies, aided by prior DNA analysis (and by GEDMatch, academic testing of DNA - there's lots, and of course, public records if that's needed).

But I've never taken swabs under the direction of an investigator (FBI or otherwise) who wanted a wide band of DNA from a community (I've never heard of that happening in my region, either).

I also have brainstormed with LE about how best to obtain a POI's touch DNA, but LE is way better at the actual scenarios, I'm just there to point out potential difficulties.

Ah! Well, either way, you are far more knowledgable about the subject than I.

Hey, I did say "If I'm not mistaken..."

 

[Tnowlin]

I guess because either he’s unknown, or he’s part of the inner circle, but has been advised by his attorney not to give dna?

If they wanted your dna they will get it even if your lawyer advised against it. They may have to follow you for a couple days.

 

[Arkay]

Your post reminded me that Dennis Rader (BTK) serial killer also wrote letters. In fact that's how LE caught him in the end. He used a floppy disc to send a file to a radio station and the disc was traced back to his church. While I was googling to update myself on those facts I found that many other killers wrote letters.

• 1888. Jack the Ripper.
• 1934. Albert Hamilton Fish. a.k.a. The Gray Man, The Moon Maniac, The Brooklyn Vampire. ...
• 1946. William Heirens. ...
• 1960s-1970s. The Zodiac Killer. ...
• 1969. The Manson Family. ...
• 1977. David Berkowitz. ...
• 1990s. Keith Jesperson. ...
• 2004. Dennis Rader.

article is Jul 6, 2017 so there may be newer cases I'm not aware of.

The Letters & Notes of BTK, David Berkowitz and Other Killers

Killers who leave notes at crime scenes or mail missives to police and the press take a big risk. Read stories and watch videos about eight murderers who just had to put it in writing.

www.aetv.com

Unabomber | Federal Bureau of Investigation

A lone bomber terrorized the nation for nearly 20 years, planting bombs that killed three Americans and injured many more before his capture in 1996.

www.fbi.gov

And then there's the Unabomber.

IMO all those who wrote letters or sent files, whether to LE or the media, craved the notoriety and that's what compelled them to "brag" about their crimes and to taunt LE with how they were getting away with it. As the Zodiac Killer has.

However, the Unabomber apparently did NOT want to be discovered, but after years and years and years he felt compelled to send his lengthy manifesto to the FBI. There was a debate as to whether or not it should be published, but eventually it was decided to do so, which led to thousands of tips from the public.

One tip was the jackpot---the Unabomber's brother recognized the writing style, and linguistic analysis proved Ted Kaczynzki was the Unabomber.

This lust for attention or making their grievances known often leads to the guilty person.

I can only hope that this murderer gives himself away. So far it doesn't seem like it, but we don't know if LE has received anything of the sort.

I imagine running down every tip, which probably involves tracking down and interviewing every person named, is a very tedious and time-consuming task. That's to say nothing of sorting through literal years worth of DNA in an off-campus student house with an ever-shifting population.

I feel LE is working very diligently and that an answer doesn't happen as quickly as we would all like.

Jmo