ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

[fridaybaker]

Not sure if this has been talked about here yet, but I hope the case doesn't turn out this way. (There is a thread here on these murders.)

The “Goldilocks” Killings Of A Japanese Family Remain Unsolved 22 Years Later, And The Details Are Baffling

An intruder who viciously killed a married couple and their two children has never been caught, despite leaving his bloodstained clothes, fingerprints, shoe prints, and an unflushed toilet.

www.buzzfeednews.com

Sorry, just realized that this has been discussed here.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I am unsure, it appeared to be about a year or so old. I do think they shared the dog, or her former bf babysat the dog. It's possible the dog was a gift from him while they were "taking a break".

I probably wouldn't have been onstage at my friendly "broken up", or "taking a break", s/o's memorial, but that's just me. I'd probably attended but not been front and center. All folks are different.

Wild uneducated guess. Perhaps Kaylee’s family insisted he be with them. JMO

 

[10ofRods]

I am unsure, it appeared to be about a year or so old. I do think they shared the dog, or her former bf babysat the dog. It's possible the dog was a gift from him while they were "taking a break".

I probably wouldn't have been onstage at my friendly "broken up", or "taking a break", s/o's memorial, but that's just me. I'd probably attended but not been front and center. All folks are different.

How was he front and center? Did he actually speak? I haven't heard it - if you have a link handy, that'd be great. Meanwhile, I'll go look at it again.

 

[TGIRecovered]

Which makes me wonder about starting a 12-month lease in August. $500/month might be decent rent, but $6,000 for the year while only spending three months there strikes me as wasteful. I wonder if she changed the date of her planned graduation.

MOO I live in a " college town," and it is common for landlords to require a minimum 12-month lease for a home near campus. They can't afford to have their property sit vacant for 2 or 3 months every year. I have known students who find a friend to take over their part of a lease if they aren't there the entire year. I agree; plans may have changed shortly after she moved in.

 

[gliving]

Given what we know of the injuries to the victims, it is highly unlikely the killer was a professional seeking to act as quickly and efficiently as possible. More probable that he enjoyed killing his victims and wanted to revel in it. In fact, the act of killing probably was the motive.

Good point!

People survive punctured lungs and lacerated livers injuries every day. Their injuries were definitely over-kill. MOO I think it was to send a message. Four birds - one stone.

 

[rsd1200]

I think that 10ofRods is onto something (in a lot of their posts). Third paragraph down could be illuminating, so who would be out for vengeance, believing that their cause is always right, and must be defended? What cause? How can it be adjudged as ‘always right’? In these days of moral relativism my idea of what is ‘right’ could be what you believe to be ‘wrong’, and we could happily agree to disagree. Is the perp (or perps) working from moral absolutism, truly believing that they are right?

If it is unusual to go for the liver, using body weight, momentum, and this type of knife like a bayonet, how did the perp (or perps) learn how to do this? What compelled them to keep going? How could they watch, and still continue, as four innocent beautiful young people died horribly at their hands, one, after one, after one?

To stab four sleeping people with quite a large knife, I would think would require quite a lot of anger, hatred, and pent-up aggression. Toward? Today's theory is that it is toward one of the three girls, or all three. E was possibly collateral. <modsnip - off topic>

 

[10ofRods]

I think that 10ofRods is onto something (in a lot of their posts). Third paragraph down could be illuminating, so who would be out for vengeance, believing that their cause is always right, and must be defended? What cause? How can it be adjudged as ‘always right’? In these days of moral relativism my idea of what is ‘right’ could be what you believe to be ‘wrong’, and we could happily agree to disagree. Is the perp (or perps) working from moral absolutism, truly believing that they are right?

If it is unusual to go for the liver, using body weight, momentum, and this type of knife like a bayonet, how did the perp (or perps) learn how to do this? What compelled them to keep going? How could they watch, and still continue, as four innocent beautiful young people died horribly at their hands, one, after one, after one?

I think you boiled this whole case down to its two salient parts. And it's the second part that astonishes me. I can kind of understand a panicked, angry, recently insulted person to go after ONE person, but after seeing what they'd done...how do they continue?

That's why I keep asking about state of mind. Is this person capable of disassociation that borders on brief psychosis? Is it brief psychosis? (one of the grab bag descriptions that are to prove or disprove)

Or is this person grimly certain of their own mission. Do they really believe they have special permission from whatever they believe in to do this?

Or were they in some kind of fugue state?

Meth is easier to understand and I'm not ruling it out. A person habituated to alcohol might not have the typical problems of the inebriated, but it is meth that I most associate with this kind of crazy behavior. That, and certain psychiatric disorders.

If I am right about what Mr G has said, then yes, we have a very specific kind of killer to look for - someone who has been observed with a knife or with a deepening interest in combat role-playing.

 

[Walela]

I know everyone is speculating on motive in relation to the four victims but what if the motive was in relation to LE? Is the perp taunting LE with an extremely difficult crime to be solved? As in “if you think you’re so smart let’s see if you can figure this out”. Maybe the 4 were chosen not only for their connection to each other but also because with each one there are so many connections to others that would have to be investigated and the house as a gathering place had so many visitors that would need to be investigated and the blood DNAs that would need to be separated and compared before anything definitive would be known. Victim wounds purposefully placed so as to confuse which was the target. All aspects of this crime intentional to create something so complicated that it would require deep and serious investigating skills along with perseverance to unmask this killer. Could this crime be a personal invitation to LE from a diabolical killer to solve what he deems unsolvable.

Jmo, moo and thinking way outside the box

 

[flowershop]

The scream the neighbor may have heard was also on the bodycam of one of the police officers who ticketed the boys for underage drinking. If you listen you can clearly hear a woman say "Stop it. Stop". The LE who's cam picked up the scream was standing fairly near the apartment building the neighbor lives in. The audio seemed to come from over his left shoulder behind him, which would have put it very close to the neighbor around the time the neighbor claimed to have heard it. It did not seem to interest the policeman wearing the bodycam as he did not even turn to look in that direction and may have dismissed it as a party going on in one of the apartments. The murder house was behind and to his left.

The woman can be heard at the 23:43 mark, right after one of the boys says he is 19.

JMO

I heard it at 23:53 mark.

 

[10ofRods]

Good point!

People survive punctured lungs and lacerated livers injuries every day. Their injuries were definitely over-kill. MOO I think it was to send a message. Four birds - one stone.

Not overkill if the intent was to kill! And these were not stab-like lacerations (according to Mr G and, well, pretty much echoing what the Coroner said as well). She said "don't think punctures or stabs, more like rips or tears" (I put the actual quote in an earlier post today).

I too wondered about the lungs because obviously do survive that injury.
But not (gruesomeness ahead - can't get spoiler tag to work) if the knife is inserted and moved around, as instructed in military training and in youtube knife training videos. Same with the liver.

It would be planned killing, choosing a method that protects the killer from direct blood spurt in the face and which means certain death for the victim. What I need to know to call it over kill is whether any body has more than 3-4 separate tears or lacerations. Because otherwise it looks like the way assassins are taught to use such a knife. Overkill would be if way more slahes than necessary were used etc.

 

[PrairieWind]

Given what we know of the injuries to the victims, it is highly unlikely the killer was a professional seeking to act as quickly and efficiently as possible. More probable that he enjoyed killing his victims and wanted to revel in it. In fact, the act of killing probably was the motive.

I completely disagree. I think the killer wanted to kill as fast as possible and get in and out. There is no report the victims were tortured etc..

 

[PrairieWind]

Not overkill if the intent was to kill! And these were not stab-like lacerations (according to Mr G and, well, pretty much echoing what the Coroner said as well). She said "don't think punctures or stabs, more like rips or tears" (I put the actual quote in an earlier post today).

I too wondered about the lungs because obviously do survive that injury.

I believe the coroner said stab wounds.

 

[Mr. Mal]

IMO, I still think the killer washed up in the second floor bathroom

Then there should be remnants in the drains of biological evidence from victims or killer if he/she washed up in the second-floor bathroom. Certainly, LE took samples of the drain area and pipes. My experience living with women was that there was always lots of hair stuck in the drain and lines, which could have caught some of that biological evidence.

 

[rsd1200]

Wild uneducated guess. Perhaps Kaylee’s family insisted he be with them. JMO

Perhaps they did. However, had it been me, I'd have had to have respectfully declined. As I said, all folks are different.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Not overkill if the intent was to kill! And these were not stab-like lacerations (according to Mr G and, well, pretty much echoing what the Coroner said as well). She said "don't think punctures or stabs, more like rips or tears" (I put the actual quote in an earlier post today).

I too wondered about the lungs because obviously do survive that injury.
But not (gruesomeness ahead - can't get spoiler tag to work) if the knife is inserted and moved around, as instructed in military training and in youtube knife training videos. Same with the liver.

It would be planned killing, choosing a method that protects the killer from direct blood spurt in the face and which means certain death for the victim. What I need to know to call it over kill is whether any body has more than 3-4 separate tears or lacerations. Because otherwise it looks like the way assassins are taught to use such a knife. Overkill would be if way more slahes than necessary were used etc.

IMO JMO and because of this info about the wounds, I think knife and tearing were both integral to his process of asserting his power and masculinity. Anyone can stick the knife in, but his kills were done with a special flourish, it seems imo jmo. And IMO JMO this is yet another reason he had to kill E first while E was asleep - because awake, the killer couldn't manage E as easily or maybe at all.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I think the issue is the article makes out the car spotted near the murder scene was the same car found in Eugene. The car LE discounted.

I'm sorry to ask, but where has LE discounted the CAR? I saw the request to stop contacting the owner because she was not believed to be involved, but not where the car was ruled out.

 

[OrlandoJames]

I completely disagree. I think the killer wanted to kill as fast as possible and get in and out. There is no report the victims were tortured etc..

I didn’t say he tortured them. I said he was probably motivated by the act of killing. I think he was filled with hate and anger - either at one or more of the victims personally, or (more likely) at what they represented to him. I think the chances of this being a professional hit hover just above zero.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Wild uneducated guess. Perhaps Kaylee’s family insisted he be with them. JMO

IMO JMO but I'd have gone out of love and respect and friendship and loyalty for my long-time love and her family. If I did nothing to hurt her, I'd be ashamed of myself for not showing up but that's just me. Just because people break up doesn't mean they quit loving and caring about one another.

 

[rsd1200]

How was he front and center? Did he actually speak? I haven't heard it - if you have a link handy, that'd be great. Meanwhile, I'll go look at it again.

Maybe y'all's front and center is different than mine and maybe her former bf is more comfortable on a stage. He was up on the stage with the family. I would not have been comfortable being up there, if that was a person who had broken up with me, or we were "taking a break". Not at all. I would have been there for the service, due to being a part of their lives for so long and since we were amicable, but, again, not all folks are alike.

 

[DizzyB]

From personal experience, it's not uncommon to find another student to take over your lease if need be.

I was surprised there was an empty bedroom already in the house, and there was going to be a second. Not sure if the person who had already moved out was still paying their share, or if the others had absorbed that cost?