ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

[Palinsmom]

My bad. Typed earlier and typed KN should be KG.

 

[Walela]

I do recall that when the surprise news came out about a sixth roommate, who was not there at the time of the murders, and had apparently already moved out, it was because some media source or Youtube podcaster had accessed a copy of the lease, and it showed that a sixth person was named on the lease, which pretty much tells you that the other five living there were on the lease as well. Perhaps only one was ultimately responsible for payment, but it seems that all six were named. JMO

If I were the 6th person on the lease and didn't live there I would want to have my name removed from the lease. I would not want to be held responsible for any damages, etc to a place where I didn't live. moo

 

[Mark Morris]

First post on this thread, all IMO, but this case reminds me of the Groene massacre in May 2005. The motive is different, Joseph Duncan was a child molester and killer, but the crime has all the hallmarks of being highly planned.

They say "don't believe in coincidence" in such criminal cases; but with so little/ no evidence released, and the apparent efficiency in execution of this awful crime, this seems carefully planned. Imo, the perp knew the occupants were all present, knew the building layout and escape routes, had no intention of leaving evidence. This doesn't look like opportunism.

Just as JED staked out the Groene household, IMO the perp had eyes on the house, either from a distance or he'd been in previously, perhaps under the guise of being a student, perhaps mature student.

Almost 18 years have passed since the terrible crimes at Coeur d'Alene, JED did a successful job at disguising his past from his professors and friends during his degree. I hope some sick psychopath hasn't been influenced in the North East. Moscow, Idaho is a mere 83 miles South of Coeur d'Alene......... what a coincidence!

All speculation and mo.

 

[Txbarfly]

I feel, IMO, that there have been more people randomly having news interviews/articles than I've seen in a typical case to absolve themselves. While this is not a typical case, I do believe the old saying "a hit dog will holler."

IMO - I think we've heard/read from killer already. Someone hungry for notoriety of their work without giving themselves up.

That’s an interesting take. Earlier on, mine was that the killer had probably been questioned/interviewed/talked to by LE at least once.

 

[10ofRods]

I hadn't really thought about this, but maybe K and M didn't make the calls?

My DH keeps asking about that and I've had that thought too (there are so many small elements to this case, but it has occurred to me that the killer was already in the house, took the phones, made the calls and at least one text). But had he already killed the two women? Doesn't seem consistent with the timeline established by...the Coroner? (By now, you should all know that I am a teeny bit skeptical about her statements, as they seem to change over time).

Unfortunately, Kaylee's sister has already gone public with the fact that Kaylee "always called people up in the middle of the night," sometimes dialing over and over and then asking what she should have for breakfast and regarding this as a prank.

(Surely, this could have happened to the sister - but did Kaylee really do that in general? If not, I sure wish the sister hadn't already said that she did).

I do recall that when the surprise news came out about a sixth roommate, who was not there at the time of the murders, and had apparently already moved out, it was because some media source or Youtube podcaster had accessed a copy of the lease, and it showed that a sixth person was named on the lease, which pretty much tells you that the other five living there were on the lease as well. Perhaps only one was ultimately responsible for payment, but it seems that all six were named. JMO

Do you think that they all signed the lease and shared responsibility? Because landlords I know (okay, I am one of them), often have a clause stating that all people who live in the house must give their names and other information to the landlord

But that doesn't preclude just one person from taking the financial responsibility that is meant by "signing a lease." I was named on leases where I had no financial responsibility - for insurance purposes.

It puts the young people on the line for making the lease payments, but another person (a parent) is the actual main signature on the lease. In college towns, most landlords have a clause saying that if one of the named parties move out, the remainder are responsible for the lease, and if anyone moves in, their name must be provided to the landlord.

Where I live, this is very common and it was common when I was at uni, as well.

So you're right - they may be "named" but that doesn't make them the lessee, is what I'm saying. That's a different issue. A formality that helps keep college students oriented. And honest. Adulting,

And of course, in many cases, there are other people besides the ones named on the lease who are living their part time or full time. I don't know case law in Idaho, but other places, courts have ruled that landlords cannot prevent "guests."

If I were the 6th person on the lease and didn't live there I would want to have my name removed from the lease. I would not want to be held responsible for any damages, etc to a place where I didn't live. moo

Exactly. Which is why having a "current list of house residents" on the lease (to be amended as needed) is the better way to do it.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

If I were the 6th person on the lease and didn't live there I would want to have my name removed from the lease. I would not want to be held responsible for any damages, etc to a place where I didn't live. moo

But a lease is a legal document. You basically committed to living there for one year. You can't usually change it unless you find someone else to take your place. It could be this 6th person was still paying her share of the rent, despite not living there. That begs the question, why did she move out?

MOO.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

@CSIDreamer — I’m not sure you’re losing anything, but the murders happened before the end of the Fall 2022 semester.

FWIW, both K & M were on the Spring 2022 Deans’ List (Region 1), which was presumably the last regular semester either was able to complete. Both of their families must have been so proud.

https://www.uidaho.edu/-/media/UIda...hash=AFCE5136ED18D3198DA6F5A36549529E06F45EC1

MOO

EBM — my phone is currently not playing nice with the Quote feature here - apologies for not being able to direct Quote your comment!

 

[eloquence]

SFFBM

The UI has a process for posthumous undergrad (& grad) degree awards.

My hope is the timing of the horrific murders simply didn’t allow for the process to be completed and that K & M — both seniors — will qualify by the big Spring Commencement in May if not sooner. Both families might also appreciate the respite.

For those interested in the details, you can read more Here - scroll down to O-11.

HTH & MOO

I agree that it's a timing issue. I had a friend die as a senior at a different school, also in November, and she was awarded a posthumous degree in the spring. Also potentially a lot to deal with for the families so soon after the murders, accepting a degree when they may not have even had a funeral yet. I also hope they will be included in the spring.

 

[dotr]

Idaho cops cagey about Canadian police involvement in student murder probe

The Moscow Police Department are being cagey on who they've reached out to for help, including Canadian law enforcement and Crime Stoppers.

torontosun.com

''It’s unclear whether Canadian law enforcement is involved in the probe, considering the scene of the murders is less than a four-hour drive to the closest border crossing at Rykerts, B.C.
But when asked whether officials were working with agencies in Canada, police spokesperson Aaron Snell was cryptic.''

“We are unwilling to speculate on the location of a potential suspect – which we currently do not have,” Snell told the New York Post. “However, we will work with any outside agency that may be able to support our investigation.”

 

[z0mer]

Zero news btw, full interview will be published later.

 

[SteveP]

My DH keeps asking about that and I've had that thought too (there are so many small elements to this case, but it has occurred to me that the killer was already in the house, took the phones, made the calls and at least one text). But had he already killed the two women? Doesn't seem consistent with the timeline established by...the Coroner? (By now, you should all know that I am a teeny bit skeptical about her statements, as they seem to change over time).

Unfortunately, Kaylee's sister has already gone public with the fact that Kaylee "always called people up in the middle of the night," sometimes dialing over and over and then asking what she should have for breakfast and regarding this as a prank.

(Surely, this could have happened to the sister - but did Kaylee really do that in general? If not, I sure wish the sister hadn't already said that she did).



Do you think that they all signed the lease and shared responsibility? Because landlords I know (okay, I am one of them), often have a clause stating that all people who live in the house must give their names and other information to the landlord

But that doesn't preclude just one person from taking the financial responsibility that is meant by "signing a lease." I was named on leases where I had no financial responsibility - for insurance purposes.

It puts the young people on the line for making the lease payments, but another person (a parent) is the actual main signature on the lease. In college towns, most landlords have a clause saying that if one of the named parties move out, the remainder are responsible for the lease, and if anyone moves in, their name must be provided to the landlord.

Where I live, this is very common and it was common when I was at uni, as well.

So you're right - they may be "named" but that doesn't make them the lessee, is what I'm saying. That's a different issue. A formality that helps keep college students oriented. And honest. Adulting,

And of course, in many cases, there are other people besides the ones named on the lease who are living their part time or full time. I don't know case law in Idaho, but other places, courts have ruled that landlords cannot prevent "guests."



Exactly. Which is why having a "current list of house residents" on the lease (to be amended as needed) is the better way to do it.

I have no idea who, or whether one or all of the roommates were jointly financially responsible for the lease, but I would be shocked if the roommates did not have at least a non-binding agreement that each was responsible for 1/6 of the rent, even if only one person was ultimately held liable, and perhaps had the stipulation that if they moved out early, they were still responsible for their part until someone was found to replace them. JMO

 

[al66pine]

DID ‘ALL’ SIGN the LEASE?
@10ofRods (post 824)
“...What makes it a necessity for them to all sign the lease?
it doesn't seem to be a legal requirement. The person who signed the lease took full financial responsibility, IMO and likely had the credit scores to do so. If I were the landlord, I'd prefer it that way, rather than having 6 itinerant students. Then, that person sublets the place. This is the way it's done in many places, and IMO, it's possible that it was done that way in this case....”

Snipped for focus. @10ofRods Briefly, may relate to lease terms other than rent payment.

I have not seen an image of lease, so will only speak in general terms re signing issue.’ [ETA: @SteveP also just made an excellent point a few posts up]

Not so briefly
Obvs a LandLord (owner/ management co.) requires one intended resident to sign the lease, so resident is legally obligated to pay RENT, utilities, etc.

LL may also require all intended residents to sign lease for joint and several liability of rent.

But instead of requiring other intended residents to sign the lease itself, LL may require them to sign an auxiliary contract or a lease addendum to obligate them to adhere to TERMS OF RESIDENCY. Could specify no pets, no sub-lets or sub-lets only w owner’s permission, obligation to pay for damages to premises, penalty clause (say, doubling the rent) for continuing to occupy after lease term ends, etc.

Again not saying this was done for 1122 King Rd prop. Just possible, IDK.

 

[Sundog]

Thanks!
I stand corrected.

It was easy to miss. I only knew to watch for him because others on this forum posted that he was on stage with the family, even though he didn't speak. I was curious about that and looked specifically for him with the G family on the video. Otherwise, it would not have been noticeable.

 

[MesquiteO21]

for some reason i can't shake the feeling that kaylee's IG post the previous afternoon/evening (the "lucky girl to be surrounded by these people" one) is related. Like it set off the killer after he saw it...i can't even articulate why but something is not feeling like just a coinicidence to my spidey senses.

*MOO*

 

[hopewell]

(Just a caring dad who loved their child, their Angel Mommy, God, and Darryl Dixon).

And Walmart shoes.

I know it is the popular belief the girls, one or all was the target. I think that is because they were very beautiful girls. Model material. But college towns are full of beautiful young girls who are not stalked or killed.

I think this resulted from an altercation either at the frat party earlier or a party that continued after E&X returned home.

I think before the altercation there was no target, that something happened in that altercation with E or X that set off a murderous rage. SG said there was a "Hell of a battle" on the second floor.

People seem to think young men don't carry around knives strapped on their belt but that is not true (here they carry guns strapped to their belts in public loaded with hollow point ammo). This is Idaho, where hunting is a big deal.

Then you have the video gamers who are into everything their avatars online are, buying the costumes, knives, guns ect that is used in the game. (think the TV show Big Bang Theory or as a nod to @rsd1200 Boondock Saints.) Also those frat and sorority parties have themes. So what if it was a D&D or Call of Duty theme party?

Or someone who just collected knives and daggers?

Then who is to say the knife wasn't already there in the house? A left over from a friend at a previous party? Or even belonged to E or one of the girls? You know girls are gamers too and into everything their online avatar is into. Or even a gift from a father or brother for protection. Not out of the realm of possibility that knife belonged to one of the girls.

Unless we are young, or have young kids/grandkids who tell us what's popular in their world today, we have no way of knowing what they are up to.

We have very little information on any of the victims hobbies, or if they owned a K Bar knife or any other kind of fixed blade knife. If any of them were obsessed with The Walking Dead and Darryl Dixon. We know even less about E's frat brothers and what they were into. Or the girls male friends and what they were into.

I firmly believe what happened came from that frat house after E&X returned home and K&M were caught up in it because they saw who was there when they came home.

In other words, taking SG at his word, there was a drunken brawl with the perpetrator maybe taking some drug like meth, that resulted in a hell of a battle on the second floor.

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one.

JMO

Then who drives the car and where is it? Wouldn't the simplest explanation also offer the simplest solution/resolution? Indeed, if it was someone even loosely associated with the victims, wouldn't someone, somewhere in their sphere report that they know someone who drove or drives that car?

That LE hasn't yet identified the car or the driver, and is asking for the public's help in doing so, indicates that it isn't likely a perpetrator within the victims immediate or tangential spheres.

My opinion.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I'm hoping that they implement some sort of scholarship fund in her name.

It’s been shared in previous threads here that both EC’s & XK’s families are each working on this.

 

[eloquence]

I was just rereading the police update which doesn't really have any new information. But it really struck me how they are emphasizing a request for photos, videos and social media from the night, rather than just asking for tips or information about the night. Especially since they also emphasize that they don't care about the background activities (by which I assume they mean illegal activities that kids might not want to bring to LE attention). It seems like it would be easier to get someone to just say "I saw XYZ happen when I was at the party" without needing to mention that they were drinking underage or whatever. But they really seem to be seeking visual evidence. Is this just because visual evidence is more reliable? Or are they looking to see something specific? JMO

Good find. I would lean reliable on this one - there is so much attention on this case, and thus unreliable tips fueled by the rampant rumors on SM, that it's hard to corroborate any stories without visual evidence. Even a Snapchat picture taken after 12am at the Sig Chi party showing X or E in the background would certainly be of interest to the police to verify their location at a certain time, much more than someone who just heard through the grapevine that X was there until 1am or something totally unverifiable.

 

[Strong1]

About the lease on the house. Is it possible that rather than the group signing a combined lease or one person being the sole signer, could have each occupant signed an individual lease for their individual bedroom. So if there are 6 bedrooms that would mean 6 leases. With students moving in and out, it makes sense that way. Actually it would also possibly mean more rental income for home owner. Just a thought.

 

[CSIDreamer]

But a lease is a legal document. You basically committed to living there for one year. You can't usually change it unless you find someone else to take your place. It could be this 6th person was still paying her share of the rent, despite not living there. That begs the question, why did she move out?

MOO.

Did she ever move in?

 

[mom2chloe]

It was easy to miss. I only knew to watch for him because others on this forum posted that he was on stage with the family, even though he didn't speak. I was curious about that and looked specifically for him with the G family on the video. Otherwise, it would not have been noticeable.

Do you or anyone have a link to the parents and boyfriend on stage please? I haven’t yet seen it. Thanks in advance.