ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

[MesquiteO21]

SG said there was a "Hell of a battle" on the second floor.

oh wow, really? he specified the second floor? i must have missed that. that's certainly interesting. lends come credibility to E and/or X being targeted but not necessarily 100% for sure.

 

[layer]

I noticed that K's name was not on the list of graduates at the recent graduation, so she must have had coursework to complete.

When you say "must have" you mean this is your assumption. There has been no statement that this was the case. Another assumption is that the university tried to disassociate itself from the heinous murder.

Setting aside assumptions, this is an established, published fact:
Goncalves was set to graduate this December.

 

[TooMuchGun]

Well, there's a FOIA body cam video from...August 16? And there are Venmo records from around that time as well. I don't think she signed a lease on June 5, I think the Venmo shows the actual lease holders name. I don't believe they all 6 signed the lease, I think one person did and then everyone paid that person.

I think the Venmo payment was a bit earlier than August 16- like August 11. IMO. From memory. I was wondering the same thing - but didn't jot it down.

Classes started August 22, that much is clear.

there's no way the lease can be signed with just 1 person. Imo a leasing company would NEVER allow this. It makes them liable for all sorts of BS down the road moo

 

[Thora_Jay]

I know what I think, it's not what you think and I'm not good with trying to project what I think on the actions of someone in emotional pain. It seems really unfair, so just let me say I had a completely different take on it. JMO.

I am beyond disgusted seeing an opinion "poll" or whatever you want to call that post summoning members to speculate on the actions of grieving family members at the church memorial service.

I hope that the families are not reading here with that behavior going on here.
I am just stating how I feel and my opinion.

Does not take a lot to make me cry, but I have to say that is what I did when I read the post summoning members opinions. My heart hurt for the victims and family members being scrutinized here on this website by their body language in front of all of the people in the auditorium and ones that watched it globally. That is not was Websleuths is about.
My opinions

Thank-you Ghostwheel for not participating in that.

 

[10ofRods]

I'd not heard the Backpacking part but had heard she was going to Europe and then had a job lined up in Tx. I had wondered why she did not stay for graduation but if her name was not on the list then she did have credits to complete. I doubt she was likely paying for the tuition or the rent. Her FB shows a photo dump of her Freshman year, dated Mar of 2020. Maybe she was interning and transferring her credits to a University in Texas.

It's exceedingly hard to transfer for one semester and then graduate (most schools have a residency requirement linked to accreditation - but she might not have been in a hurry, since she already had a job).

Her mom says she was paying for rent and Venmo shows she was paying for utilities. Her mom says her tuition was from a student loan (normal), but that does mean she had only so many semesters left of loans for tuition as an undergrad.

She matriculated to U of I in 2019. She probably planned to finish her units by online classes (profs tend to be less rigid about this, these days and her major was not one that required a skills demonstration as a capstone). I feel so badly for her and her parents, that she didn't get to go to graduation, that her young dreams ended this way.

I wish U of I had seen fit to award her degree if she was only 6-9 units short and had started completion of those units, but I guess I get why they didn't. I just wish they'd be more rigid about alcohol on campus. Kaylee was trying to be responsible (IMO) and combine that with being popular and ambitious.

MOO of course.

Well K's father did seem to ask J at 24:35-ish if he wanted to say something so that seems gracious, in my opinion. To me, it just seemed like he was finished honoring his daughter. If his wife wanted to reach out to J, that was her deal, but he was finished. I did not sense any obvious animosity. He just wasn't going to "reach out" per se, like his wife did. Imo of course. ETA: And my comment concerning this thought got deleted earlier but I stand by it- Maybe K's father held some (misplaced) anger that J was not there to protect her (not saying he should have been!) They were together for 5 years and we aren't privy to past events in their relationship which could factor into his demeanor as well.

I'll have to watch again - I didn't see that moment where Dad seems to ask J if wants to say something (that makes a difference). Maybe that's why there was that look toward the end. I agree that most fathers would be feeling ambivalent toward Ex BF in a situation like this (mine would have been livid about the not answering of the phone calls).

I will also say that it would be really human for the father to be feeling a mix of things toward J. Lots of grief and hard times still ahead for all the families and friends. I do feel for J. It's amazing how a crime can thread itself through an entire community and basically ruin or mar so many lives.

I think you can slow this down and see SG's tight expression, where he's gritting his jaw together, all the way through. He does it most often when he's looking at his wife and it is no surprise that he does it at the end when she turns to JD and hugs him because that signals the end of their time on stage and he knows he only has a few more moments until he can get out of the public eye and lose it himself. MOO.

I also note that he is purposeful in the way he introduces JD and his voice is warm as he does so.

What a very hard day that must have been for him and everyone on stage at that time. IMO

I trust you on this. I do think that Mr and Mrs G are handling this each in their own way. I just made the mistake of going over to Instagram (what a cesspool, seriously, I'm shocked that this is where our youth culture is - I was reading comments on some of the victims' pages).

 

[10ofRods]

there's no way the lease can be signed with just 1 person. Imo a leasing company would NEVER allow this. It makes them liable for all sorts of BS down the road moo

I cannot say who actually signed the lease and who was sending checks to the property management company, because they are otherwise not involved in this case at all.

 

[femto]

I also feel it is more likely that this had to do E and/or X. I really think all the publicly known info about K & M has created the false impression that they were the targets. Or at least it is just as likely focused on E/X, but not many people seem to be looking in that direction.

Well the police are, I'm sure! MOO

I would argue that the fact that the killer went specifically to the top floor suggests that, not the attention Kaylee and Maddie have received. There's 3 possibilities:

1. Kaylee or Maddie or both were the targets
2. Only the four victims were the target.
3. Everyone in the house was the target but the killer either didn't know of the roommates or something spooked him (this is the unlikeliest scenario imo)

In fact, I'm pretty sure Ethan was just a collateral since everything points to this as an organized attack and Ethan sleeping over would have been unexpected for the killer unless he had first hand knowledge of Ethan's movements.

 

[rsd1200]

TY - I would love everyone's opinion on it,

I noted about her habit of throwing cell phones in the toilet, if she became annoyed at someone, and her father sort of glances the ex bf's way. It then does sort of appear he does lean in, to ask him if he'd like to say something. It then appears that the father is annoyed, they lock eyes, dad has an odd look about him, turns and walks away. The ex bf may have been URGED by a parent(s) to be there and is actually not comfortable, and as someone said, no one is good enough for a Dad's girls, and he IS the former bf. I saw nowhere that there were plans for him to accompany her at some point, so, an awkward position up there. Awkward more than once during the memorial. It's why I said I'd never have been up there. Again, maybe I'm the oddball, but we oddballs exist.

 

[10ofRods]

I am beyond disgusted seeing an opinion "poll" or whatever you want to call that post summoning members to speculate on the actions of grieving family members at the church memorial service.

I hope that the families are not reading here with that behavior going on here.
I am just stating how I feel and my opinion.

Does not take a lot to make me cry, but I have to say that is what I did when I read the post summoning members opinions. My heart hurt for the victims and family members being scrutinized here on this website by their body language in front of all of the people in the auditorium and ones that watched it globally. That is not was Websleuths is about.
My opinions

Thank-you Ghostwheel for not participating in that.

We all feel the grief - and just like the family members, we all experience it differently. I feel a need to understand this crime, and I do fear that we never will.

When U of I decided to stream this globally, they did so - which means the world watched. That's what it was. A globally streamed ceremony. And, if you think my asking for opinions on the meaning of part of it is so bad, do not under any circumstances head over to Instagram, Facebook or TikTok.

I am glad that others helped me see the situation differently - and that's what WS is about to me.

PS This was discussed for nearly an entire thread when it happened - with many opinions. I just wasn't around to ask questions then. I'm very sorry and sincerely apologize if asking questions is triggering for anyone - we all have our triggers, for sure.

 

[TooMuchGun]

I cannot say who actually signed the lease and who was sending checks to the property management company, because they are otherwise not involved in this case at all.

they would all need to sign the lease if they are living there. U can tell from their venmos they all shared bills.

 

[Whatif1964]

I agree. I watched the whole thing and it appears to be just a bunch of loopy college kids having fun and crackin' wise.

Something is off there, just MOO. KG seems to go out of her way to make sure to get picture of HG or maybe both men as she and MM are quickly leaving. Just MOO.

 

[Cryptic]

This American University "Greek Life" is novelty to me.
Frats/Sororities seem like mysterious secret organisations.

Gosh, I just assumed that European countries also had similar "Greek systems".

As a side note, participation in U.S. college greek societies can rise and fall. For example, fraternities and sororities were hugely popular my first two years in college. Girls especially could be on "pins and needles" that they had to, absolutely had to, be accepted at sorority "X" or "y".

Then, after a series of drunken stunts gone very bad and...an economy that also went bad with less money for membership fees, dresses, say "voluntary" contributions etc etc, participation in fraternities and sororities crashed.

Then, after I graduated, I learned that interest in greek organizations had recovered and fraternities and sororities were hot again.

 

[10ofRods]

I noted about her habit of throwing cell phones in the toilet, if she became annoyed at someone, and her father sort of glances the ex bf's way. It then does sort of appear he does lean in, to ask him if he'd like to say something. It then appears that the father is annoyed, they lock eyes, dad has an odd look about him, turns and walks away. The ex bf may have been URGED by a parent(s) to be there and is actually not comfortable, and as someone said, no one is good enough for a Dad's girls, and he IS the former bf. I saw nowhere that there were plans for him to accompany her at some point, so, an awkward position up there. Awkward more than once during the memorial. It's why I said I'd never have been up there. Again, maybe I'm the oddball, but we oddballs exist.

Another oddball here (obviously). I was watching without sound, because that's a standard technique in my field. I guess maybe WS shouldn't verify anthropologists (but they did).

Good contextual clues there. Cell phone throwing is interesting (just like late night calling). It's reminding me just a little of the Suzanne Morphew case, toward the end. Victims are people too and their situations are absolutely important in solving a crime. There's not enough known in this case to do personal victimology (IMO), but general victimology is important.

One day, we'll have more information. If J had not gone to this memorial, people would have been talking all kinds about him, so I admire him for doing so. Mr G has certainly slowed his roll, since then, about what he's sharing with the public - and of course, he must be watching the same security cam and body cam videos as the rest of us. I still trust Mr G's overall perceptions of things and believe what he says should be treated respectfully.

 

[Rush4087]

Something is off there, just MOO. KG seems to go out of her way to make sure to get picture of HG or maybe both men as she and MM are quickly leaving. Just MOO.

She does indeed seem to do that. Imo she holds the phone up way too long for her to have been just taking a photo.

Unless she is taking a forward looking video (of say, someone above her in the grub truck?) I think it is logical to conclude that she is taking a reverse (selfie type) video of somebody standing behind her. Now why would she do that?

 

[CSIDreamer]

I think I'm losing it. I did a search on the U of I site for Kaylee. The result is in the attached screenshot. I clicked on the deans list link and I swear her name is gone.

Feel free to point out the obvious to me.

About the College - EHHS | University of Idaho

The College of Education, Health and Human Sciences has a reputation for innovation and excellence. We provide dynamic programs that are innovative, effective and emphasize leadership.

www.uidaho.edu

 

[rsd1200]

If the photos are from March of her freshman year 2020 then 2019 would have been when she started. (August/September are typically when school starts) which would make her a senior set to graduate in the spring of 2023, right? So her name wouldn't be on the list of graduates yet unless she took way more credits during the school year plus summer courses. Even then since she technically wasn't able to take her final exams this semester, she wouldn't have been on the list of graduates anyway.

Thank you. Much appreciated. So if 2020 was the end of her Freshman year, and she could graduate in the spring of 2023, would she not be able to transfer any necessary credits to Texas if she needed, and graduate on time or a bit later, with an internship? After enjoying some travel. Just wondering.

 

[jimg77]

I disagree. If someone tells me FU I don't take it as a joke. I take it personally.

JMO

I agree here with your opinion.

Was she saying "FU mister" to the other individual talking to hoodie guy? If so, for whatever reason I somehow think he's a questionable "mister". If I remember correctly he made a video about hoodie guy somewhere on SM. Something about him didn't sit right with me, but what do I know? JMO

 

[rsd1200]

It's exceedingly hard to transfer for one semester and then graduate (most schools have a residency requirement linked to accreditation - but she might not have been in a hurry, since she already had a job).

Her mom says she was paying for rent and Venmo shows she was paying for utilities. Her mom says her tuition was from a student loan (normal), but that does mean she had only so many semesters left of loans for tuition as an undergrad.

She matriculated to U of I in 2019. She probably planned to finish her units by online classes (profs tend to be less rigid about this, these days and her major was not one that required a skills demonstration as a capstone). I feel so badly for her and her parents, that she didn't get to go to graduation, that her young dreams ended this way.

I wish U of I had seen fit to award her degree if she was only 6-9 units short and had started completion of those units, but I guess I get why they didn't. I just wish they'd be more rigid about alcohol on campus. Kaylee was trying to be responsible (IMO) and combine that with being popular and ambitious.

MOO of course.


I'll have to watch again - I didn't see that moment where Dad seems to ask J if wants to say something (that makes a difference). Maybe that's why there was that look toward the end. I agree that most fathers would be feeling ambivalent toward Ex BF in a situation like this (mine would have been livid about the not answering of the phone calls).

I had thought they may award some type of posthumous degree as well. Maybe at a later date.

 

[NoviceCrimeWatcher]

Too bad we don't have the intervening conversation between the three (K&M&HG) from the surveillance camera to the Grub Hub. He may have told K that M said something to A, causing K to become upset with M. Viewing it that way the girls may have looked at it that he was trying to cause trouble between/for them. Couple that with M later pointing at him and saying "FU Mister", could indicate she was angry he told K about her conversation with A where she had to confess to K that she told A "Everything". So maybe she told K "let's call for a ride and ditch him."

JMO

I don't think whatever M told A upset K that much. I would think that if anything had upset either one of them, they wouldn't have been found in the same bed. Remember they have been best friends for years.

 

[10ofRods]

they would all need to sign the lease if they are living there. U can tell from their venmos they all shared bills.

Source for that? Because I have heard otherwise and it doesn't seem to be a legal requirement. The person who signed the lease took full financial responsibility, IMO and likely had the credit scores to do so. If I were the landlord, I'd prefer it that way, rather than having 6 itinerant students. Then, that person sublets the place. This is the way it's done in many places, and IMO, it's possible that it was done that way in this case.

What makes it a necessity for them to all sign the lease? I don't think Kaylee even decided to move in until after the lease was signed (and possible true for one of the other roommates - meanwhile, one of the OG roommates moved out). I sure hope that Kaylee wasn't responsible for a lease all the way up until the end of next June.

I would argue that the fact that the killer went specifically to the top floor suggests that, not the attention Kaylee and Maddie have received. There's 3 possibilities:

1. Kaylee or Maddie or both were the targets
2. Only the four victims were the target.
3. Everyone in the house was the target but the killer either didn't know of the roommates or something spooked him (this is the unlikeliest scenario imo)

In fact, I'm pretty sure Ethan was just a collateral since everything points to this as an organized attack and Ethan sleeping over would have been unexpected for the killer unless he had first hand knowledge of Ethan's movements.

All of the above, still, for me. Any could be true.

Today, I'm on the page of this was some kind of sociopath, even a one-time cyber-stalker who decided to drop by Moscow. Pretty far-fetched, I realize that, but worth some thought. Gets us away from the immediate Moscow population.

But all of your points could fit with that scenario. Stranger Sociopath could have targeted any or all of the occupants (or none - just a house with the lights on, on a cold night in Moscow, ID). I say this in part because some home invasion type incidents involve sudden decisions by unstable people who want to be inside a house, but this case is unusual, because apparently nothing was used or stolen. Of course, it's possible we just don't know that yet.

I think LE is working this as if it's not the type of person I describe (the Elantra thing; the expanding the investigation to interview some students over break; IMO).

But, said person could have been in Moscow for a length of time, blended in, even taken a job (all because drawn there by either university age women in general or some particular type of woman or even one specific woman).

I think I'm losing it. I did a search on the U of I site for Kaylee. The result is in the attached screenshot. I clicked on the deans list link and I swear her name is gone.

Feel free to point out the obvious to me.

About the College - EHHS | University of Idaho

The College of Education, Health and Human Sciences has a reputation for innovation and excellence. We provide dynamic programs that are innovative, effective and emphasize leadership.

www.uidaho.edu

You're not losing it. Kaylee was on the Dean's list for prior semesters. These lists are typically auto-generated by the Registrar's software once grades are in (I suppose Kaylee must have failed all her classes due to not taking finals - which is something the University's administration could have mitigated in some fashion, under these circumstances - perhaps giving her an honorary degree - and maybe they still will). The auto-generated list goes directly into its slot on the University's web management software, for nearly all colleges and universities.

So she was on it for two previous consecutive semesters, but fell off as of the end of Fall Semester, 2022.

It's usually semester by semester.