ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

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I think we have a good idea of what was happening. Look, I'm not buying nobody heard anything. Six people are in the house. The victims were in pairs. Even with an inability to scream or otherwise vocalize, there probably was rustling or thrashing about. There was a struggle as evidenced by defensive wounds. When the first pair were being killed, the other 4 could or should have heard something .

What do you do when you hear something like that? Maybe nothing. Maybe you suspect something but aren't sure. Maybe 911 isn't your first reaction. Maybe you call an ex. I think X and E were being killed and one or both of them were fighting for their lives during those calls. They were first.
I've thought of that too and can only think about the experiences of my kids and more so now with my grandkids who have been to college and the horror stories of the roommate experience. When I first heard about the 2 survivors and that they heard nothing, I thought of my grandson who slept with an ear muff thing to block all noises. He heard nothing at no time. A couple of my granddaughters used white noise machines and fans right beside their bed.
If this was a party house and there were people in and out and sleeping over or couch surfing, noises of all kinds might be common.
Couple that with being drunk and new to the hierarchy in the house. If they were the newest roommates, they may have went along to get along. They may have heard something but kept quiet and in their room so as not to make a big deal of the noise or be nosey to who was doing what with whom. They all must have felt relatively comfortable and safe living where and how they lived, JMO.
 
Do we know or has it been released by LE exactly where Ethan and Xana's bodies were found? I think we have a pretty clear idea based on the information collected through various means that the other two were found in the same bed.

I am just curious as to where E and X were found. If it has been repeatedly spoken about I apologize.
 
I feel like "context" means the investigators are saying to the students, residents and perp(s), "We know what happened, we know who is plausibly capable and very likely guilty of this crime BUT we are still trying to understand WHY."

Motive is important when it comes to questioning, getting to a confession, or in a trial, getting to a conviction.

Just my opinion.
Yes, LE has repeatedly used the word "context" from the beginning, and I'm reading it the same way you are. I'm convinced this word was chosen with absolute specificity.
 
The police are saying very little, but Kaylee's father, Steve Goncalves, has publicly said that Kaylee's injuries were "significantly more brutal" than those incurred by Maddie Mogen, and he provided some details. This raises questions about whether Kaylee was specifically targeted.
It's difficult to discern how much weight to give the information coming from the families about the case. When they discuss what they knew of these kids, their childhoods, hopes, struggles, dreams, then they're definitely the experts in my book. But when they're talking about an ongoing case that LE is deliberately buttoning up, I'm less inclined to automatically include what they're saying in my information gathering.
 
I guess they have to turn the property over to the owner at some point. I was impressed with the pictures in a listing that was posted here. It was a very nice apartment, nicer than many I've seen. The owner appeared to keep it nice.
Yeah, it looks great. WayBackMachine still has the page of the Zillow listing.

 
SPECULATION, THEORIES AHEAD. JMO.

Yes. First of all, I've lived on college campuses for a total of about 20 years, and worked on them for a total of about 40 years. Large and small colleges/universities, public and private.

LONG POST incoming - but I've synthesized so much of what many of you have been writing over the past couple of days - you'll see that I"m using many of the hypotheses here, which kind of clicked together Lego-style for me, with this story.
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It's always the case that there are longterm hangers-on, who pretend to be students, on every college campus. It's particularly common right now, IMO.

Heck, some of the scariest moments of teaching have to do with some individual being in class and they aren't students!

It's actually difficult to detect in larger lecture classes. Each time it's happened to me, there's been some specific behavior that this person is exhibiting that made me worry/wonder about them and I'd have to do things to get their names (and sometimes, they'd disappear before or immediately after my "investigation" - whereas no other students even notice that I did a pop quiz and then walked around and specifically collected the papers by hand.

At larger schools (U of Id is definitely not tiny), these students can blend in and hang on for years.

I believe that the Elantra belongs to a relative of one of these people.

It was never registered properly for campus use. The person lives in on-campus housing (likely a Greek house, as all the principals in this case were associated with a Greek house), and may be seen as an Elder Brother and as we know, the brothers at the house are not going to turn such a person into housing authorities. Food is no problem for them, in this situation. Some have girlfriends in the house if it's co-ed housing, so they kind of share those rooms off the record. We do not have fraternities on campus where I work right now, but we have them off-campus and I have my students do papers on their residences using social mapping techniques and so I know that every fraternity has at least 1-2 of these people, which seems normal to the members and which they regard as a kind of assistance if they can't launch themselves after graduation.

Thing is, some of these people linger for years and never graduate. Students come and go and may not realize this, but staff at the universities, including police, usually know of them. It's an area like underage drinking or noise complaints - no real push to put a stop to it. Unless the person does something really bad.

There's been an increase in such students at many colleges. It's a form of homelessness or being indigent, but the people who meet these men do not realize it, as they dress and act like students. They are unable to move on from college life, they won't move on, they are often regarded as BMOC (Big Men On Campus). BTW, I know of no women in this category except a couple of girlfriends who lived irregularly with their boyfriends - but they were students). I know about them most when I investigate cheating - it's often one of these students who has been collecting copies of exams (mostly given online these days) and is selling them/distributing them with answers to their housemates.

Anyway, such students are often trouble. So that was one of my first thoughts.

They are well versed at avoiding and defying authority, was my second thought. They are jealous and suspicious of real students, but hide it fairly well. Nearly every physical fight I've witnessed or been involved in recording/adjudicating involved one of these non-students. They usually claim they are about to enroll again, or they enroll every 3-4 semesters, constantly fail to complete. BTW, the federal government has put into place modest nation-wide measures to try and prevent these characters from continuing to get student loans AND to force repayment under some circumstances - if they can find them. Some of these non-students actually run large scams involving stealing identity and registering under different names at various other colleges than the one they are living at - thereby occasionally grabbing some money from an online university or college. At my college, we now have about 5 current restraining orders against such men because their behaviors ended up with criminal prosecution and they violated a local order not to come on campus. One of them has been sent to another state for his parole, because he won't stop coming on campus. He has come on campus armed.

This person I am describing cannot destroy the Elantra because their relative (or other person from whom they borrowed) would notice and might just be the type to put 2 and 2 together. These students cannot go home because their families have had it with their behavior (they steal from their families - and sometimes even brag about it). They steal from their dorm mates and house mates, too. They steal from the library too.

I believe this person is University related because LE has mostly received tips from and interviewed people from the University.

I'll bet professors have been interviewed, but also students from every single house/dorm associated with the victims and their social life. So not just Sigma Chi but also SAE, the two Pi houses (sororities) and any other place where they had friends or acquaintances.

Patterns have emerged. The type of individual I'm talking about will certainly have been mentioned by more than one person and LE surely will have asked, point blank, whether other students know of any such person - an older person pretending to be a student and perhaps using tactics of intimidation will be mentioned, and if several people mention the same guy, he's gotta be a POI.

I think one of these men has been associated with the Elantra by video or by testimony. The police also see the Elantra near the house on the night of the murders. Elantra is back out of town and at the house of the relative (who has likely been talked to, because I think they tracked it down).

The murderer - and perhaps an accomplice or unwitting tag-along on that night - went to that relative's house to return the car, clean up, and stay for Thanksgiving. Caught a ride with someone to come back, to be close to the crime scene and, as several here have suggested, see whether his own views of what LE is going to do are actually coming to pass. The car would still contain DNA from the victims.

This profile is based on whatever cases I could find that are remotely similar, and on other university murders that I know about. This person *could* have a part time job with the university in some capacity, may involve night work. This person uses university facilities as if they are entitled to them, but will have no transcripted credit-bearing classes for the past year or two (they may occasionally enroll, but fail to finish or the transcript will record a withdrawal or a fail). They may be lying to their families about still being in college (IME, this type of person is really volatile, scared and often suicidal - and to me, a suicidal student is always one that's capable of harming others as well, because they are constantly contemplating the great tabu against killing humans - they've decided that some humans deserve death, and they have both suicidal and homicidal fantasies). That's why when committing heinous crimes, they have no fear in the moment of being caught. Afterwards, they may find that being homicidal suits them better psychologically than being suicidal - which is another reason they are so scary.

As an aside, when I learned through MSM that there were animal mutilations in 2017 (associated with university life, let's just say - and the victims of the carcass dumpings were targeted), I realized that would make this person about 3-4 years older than our victims, if they started this behavior a couple of years after arriving.

Now, my whole story could be wrong - but LE has a similar story about someone, right now. I'm convinced of it. They know that this same person whose name has been coming up has some kind of run-ins with law, maybe back in high school. They have warned and talked to his family. He's feeling increasingly cornered, but they know where he is. It's essential that the extra FBI agents go to the homes of vacationing students to talk to every person who knows this person (or persons, if there are more than one).

This person is acquainted with every person who was killed. He lives nearby. He fits all the psychological criteria that people here on WS keep mentioning (jealous, rejected, fantasizer, angry and perhaps fearful) Scared humans who are about to be caught for something are dangerous. And it's more than just being turned in to university authorities for leaving without permission on campus. This person is likely also a petty drug dealer (as others here have hypothesized). So it all clicked for me. He would have been in the house before, but is not a boyfriend or an ex. Women on campus have had negative encounters with him already. He has likely approached at least one of the women romantically and was rebuffed (21 year old women often think a 24-25 year guy is a bit too old). He likely tries to hit on the 18-19 year olds, though. If he's around for so many years, he gets to watch the women he wanted to date move on to other men. This is highly displeasing to him.

If I am at all close, then this murderer knows that he's in the cross-hairs, although he may believe he's one of a handful and has almost certainly started rumors/stories to implicate others, or when interrogated, he implicated others. It's a dangerous time in the investigation because if that Elantra has been located, the instant LE moves in with a search warrant, the gig is up and this killer will know he's going down. If the owner of the Elantra cooperates, though, it can all be done without him finding out, at least not immediately.

As for the "context" quest by LE, I feel it fits with this theory. If this guy is who I think it is, there's definitely context - and from that night and from that weekend. His housemates are probably used to him coming and going at all hours, borrowing various cars, etc, but something still was amiss/relevant that happened on Nov 12 and if no one saw him on Nov 13, that needs to be established. I figure he told at least a few people he was "going home" for Thanksgiving, so no one would have thought much about it, and he very well did arrive at some relative's house on the 13th - and stay for Thanksgiving.

Weakest part of my theory is any good hypothesis about where this guy is right now. Could be on the run. Could be back at school (my guess, as this guy knows nothing else and can't function outside the life he's made at university). Could be at home with family. Could be staying with friends' family. LE surely are at the point where they either know exactly where he is (my guess) or are about to locate him,

I've read every post on this thread and the last one - and I appreciate the opportunity to write all of this out, using so much of what you all have been saying.
I had no idea that this was a common thing. I know of an instance at a college where an individual who is just as you described was accused of rape. The college really could do nothing about him unless the victim pressed charges. He did not technically live on campus, or attend classes, so he could not be expelled. He could not be investigated as a student because he wasn’t one. He “stayed” in a frat house and preyed on new students at some of their first college parties, girls who had drank too much and felt shame and were reluctant to prosecute with all that goes along with that. Does everyone involved in college life know of these types? Your words scared me.
 
It is possible that K & M were the target(s) and E or X called out something like ‘ Hey what’s going on’ which lead to a very crazed and possibly high on adrenaline and drugs killer to storm into their room.
That is certainly possible. Killer's target was K and/or M, went and killed them, then ran into X and/or E on the way down, had to kill them too. He didn't need to get the two one the first floor since they hadn't seem him. But I also could see a scenario where X and E were the intended target, but the killer maybe thought K and M and possible seen or heard him and decided to get them too.
 
Yes, LE has repeatedly used the word "context" from the beginning, and I'm reading it the same way you are. I'm convinced this word was chosen with absolute specificity.
It took 5 years for police to arrest Richard Allen in the "delphi murders" of the 2 young girls. Police said he was under their radar the whole time and was a local . In todays LE takes more time to get all the eveidence lined up for a convivtion probably due to all the publicity and in the Delphi case a suspected child murderer was left at large.Being sure of getting a conviction is what the prosecutor wants prior to charging a suspect. In this case I believe all leads have to be followed to show due diligence were followed up to prove beyond reasonable doubt. That will take a long time. So yes they may have suspect but won''t charge until investigation is complete.
 
I think if perp went direction that is thought and what LE thought towards Pullman area, there is the Snake River. It is said to "the" deep river around (14-16ft).

If there was in fact a car used, my thinking would to leave town heading nw in what becomes Sand Road. I've asked this before but are there any cams along this route that anyone is aware of past the RV park?
 
So do we have any idea how the killer excited the house? I would think he would almost have to be dripping blood and leaving a trail which way he excited. Even if he managed not to cut himself would not the knife or his clothes leave droplets of the victims blood on the floor as he left?

Guess he could have cleaned up as he was leaving. But I imagine le did luminale testing for blood and could still see where it was cleaned up.

What do you think?
 
Yeah, it looks great. WayBackMachine still has the page of the Zillow listing.

It certainly is nicer than many of apartments I had when I was in college! Affordable rent as well and with parking AND walking distance to campus.
 
(21 year old women often think a 24-25 year guy is a bit too old).
I have to disagree without you on that. I have known quite a few women that age who dated men at least a few years older. Undergraduate females dating men in grad school is exceedingly common. I would guess that a three-year age difference is average, in fact.

I doubt doubt that he was rejected by women, but it wouldn't have been because of his age, in my opinion; rather, it would have been because he was physically unattractive, socially awkward, or both.
 
I agree with 10ofRods and others in the thread - the car has not been destroyed. It would be noticed missing by someone.
I know a lot of people who drive a different car every few months and it doesn't seem odd at all; they're just known for car trading. If this person is this type, they could easily have destroyed the car and picked up another.

There are a multitude of ways to live in our society, from tighter social circles to nearly off the social grid disconnectedness. Where does our killer sit in the greater community web? If in tight social circles, the car is probably still around. If a near- hermit, it may also still be around. If in the looser world of criminality (know a guy who knows a guy but no one will remember this) then the car is probably toast.
 
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