ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

[eloquence]

I disagree that this was a psychotic serial killer. Serial killers have types. If you look at the women victims of a serial killer they all look enough alike to be sisters or brothers. An SK carefully watches for someone who fits his "type". A SK doesn't pick a random house and kill two blonde females, one brunette female and one male. Some of the people who have been mentioned on here are not bona fide serial killers. They are mass murderers, family annihilators or spree killers, not true serial killers like Bundy, Dahmer, BTK ect. A serial killer kills one victim at a time who has something in common with all his other victims, e.g all blondes, all brunettes, all children, all women, all men, all prostitutes ect.

I don't know that I agree with this part. The definition of serial is just targeting people with no motive in some sort of pattern - maybe they are all stabbed to death with an edged weapon, for example. If (god forbid) he struck again this would be a SK case. Look at Son of Sam, he was the prolific brunette killer, all of the brunettes in NYC were wearing wigs... until he targeted a blonde and her boyfriend. BTK killed multiple families at the same time along with random victims. Some SKs do seek out a specific type but I don't think killing outside of one "type" totally excludes a serial killer. Maybe his type was sorority girls and he didn't expect E to be in the house.

 

[z0mer]

good to get a refresher of the early reporting ( 19th November?)

wonder what Kaylee was planning to do there 13th onwards ( Mom says in that interview that K was only planning to return on the Tuesday )
anybody heard anything on that?

Did her mom say that Kaylee messaged Jack to come over? Was that the reason she was calling?

 

[drmrgrl]

If the murders were committed by someone known to the victims(such as a romantic interest) or anyone who knew the inside of the house and which person lived in which room, then I have a question.

Ethan Chapin was the only one who did not live at the house at some point. Why would the "other two" victims be killed if the killer was there for a specific person and knew which room each of them slept in?

IMO. He met them casually ( maybe only once) and maybe knows their names.

 

[drmrgrl]

If the murders were committed by someone known to the victims(such as a romantic interest) or anyone who knew the inside of the house and which person lived in which room, then I have a question.

Ethan Chapin was the only one who did not live at the house at some point. Why would the "other two" victims be killed if the killer was there for a specific person and knew which room each of them slept in?

IMO, he may have watched the house that night. Personally, I think the killer is someone who lives within the neighborhood.

 

[mickey2942]

I would think that by this time, LEO would have enough information and DNA to identify the gender, race, of the perpetrator. Just wondering why this basic inforinformation has not been released.

 

[10ofRods]

Although if she indeed had been working full time throughout high school and university (per her mother), 18 credits sounds like a stretch to me MOO.

Not a stretch for me. There are always a handful of students who do this. At least at my college there are. And online classes mad e it even easier. Hybrid and online classes are quite popular at U of I as well.

 

[NuttMegg]

This very well may be the case...the killer may not be a *hunter*. My take, they were VERY FAMILIAR with using a knife and probably killed/injured with this weapon previously...be it a human or an animal. You just don't attempt (and succeed) dispatching 4 humans in a short time frame without the knowledge and confidence to do so. Yes, the victims may have been asleep and/ or inebriated, but FOUR victims in TWO separate rooms doesn't ensure success and is fraught with unforeseen consequences. FBI needs to find this killer sooner rather than later. MOO

It's not being a hunter per se. It's the familiarity with weapons, dismembering/gutting animals. In Alaska, a hunter does not go out without a hefty knife in a sheath. For survival and for possibly defending against black bear, or for cutting large branches to make a shelter, to gather emergency firewood and so forth.
Same with sport fishermen, and commercial fishermen who may instantly have to save their own life, or that of a crew member who put their foot in a deadly loop of crab pot line. In Alaska, a hunter is quite likely to strip huge pieces of meat from a moose carcass rather than overload a tiny charter plane with a quartered animal. Try that with a penknife.

No one has ever said on this thread that the killer is likely a hunter just because he is a hunter. It's the paraphernalia that accompanies hunting, fishing, and the responsible woodsmanship that requires use of knives.

I'm pretty sure that we'll find out that the killer is well acquainted, possibly since youth, with knives, guns, etc. If not a rural hunter, the next option in my mind (as others have opined here) is someone who 1. has been in a bona fide military program, 2. Part of a student military program or 3. Is a member of a quasi military extremist group. All probably hunters for that matter.

I really doubt that this killer is a frat guy who occasionally visits the Army Navy store for some gee whiz thrills.

Imo

 

[mickey2942]

I think about my own children, a bit older than these victims, and really, how little I know about their lives. Young adults can be doing things that their parents, or even friends may have no clue about.

I can't help but wonder if LEO has found any information on the electronic devices that the victims had...that has led the case to something unexpected.

 

[girlhasnoname]

IMO,use positive reinforcement. LE can start handing out 20, 50 and 100 dollar bills for pertinent information regarding the murders. The more reliable the info, the higher the dollar amount. Money talks. Let’s think outside of the box.IOW, provide an incentive to come forward. Moscow PD will have lines of potential for miles and miles.

I also think they're at the point in the investigation that offering a reward might bring some information they might not necessarily get otherwise.

 

[cottonweaver]

maybe there's a suspect or an arrest in the horizon?

Yes maybe. Or he's a great reassurance performer.

also, did you notice what prosecutor said in the early Fox interview ? iirc expediting DNA analysis was already on the cards/ being done.
( ie not the typical time-frames for the PD/state)

 

[SteveP]

All IMHO -
I’m personally sad to be reading so many conspiracy theories about someone targeting X and E.
They didn’t tick anybody off, no hit men (eyes rolling around and around), no drug cartels, nada.

It simply didn’t happen.

They are just regular, nice, good and normal college kids.

Here‘s the real scoop:they were young and in love.
Simple as that. Nothing to report here.
Likely they spent quality time and possibly quantity time in the privacy of E’s room at the Sigma Chi house and/or they may have gone back and forth from X’s private locked bedroom at King Road to the frat party 5 minutes away.
They were off the grid doing what young and in love college people do in some form or fashion and nobody else paid any attention to their coming and going from the frat party.
They may have gone to take a nap and cuddle, right?
Timeline filled in.
Been there, done that.

Nothing nefarious happened that night until hours later.
It was a regular normal Saturday night for a regular normal college couple until it wasn’t.

Respectfully, unless we were with them, none of us knows all of the things Ethan and Xana did that evening. LE seem to feel that "something" happened at the Sigma Chi frat party, that may have involved them, and are attempting to learn more about it. I trust that they have more information about Ethan and Xana's activities that evening that we do. JMO

 

[Which_pancake]

All IMHO -
I’m personally sad to be reading so many conspiracy theories about someone targeting X and E.
They didn’t tick anybody off, no hit men (eyes rolling around and around), no drug cartels, nada.

It simply didn’t happen.

They are just regular, nice, good and normal college kids.

Here‘s the real scoop:they were young and in love.
Simple as that. Nothing to report here.
Likely they spent quality time and possibly quantity time in the privacy of E’s room at the Sigma Chi house and/or they may have gone back and forth from X’s private locked bedroom at King Road to the frat party 5 minutes away.
They were off the grid doing what young and in love college people do in some form or fashion and nobody else paid any attention to their coming and going from the frat party.
They may have gone to take a nap and cuddle, right?
Timeline filled in.
Been there, done that.

Nothing nefarious happened that night until hours later.
It was a regular normal Saturday night for a regular normal college couple until it wasn’t.

There is nothing to suggest they were involved in anything shady, and drug hits, etc. are a ridiculous stretch IMO. Still it seems that the police are looking for information about K&Es evening so there is a strong possibility the answers lie there since LE apparently hasn't found the answers looking at K&Ms evening.

Maybe they wanted to pick up some late night food and accepted a ride from the wrong person. Maybe one of them had a stalker. It could be anything, but it doesn't mean it was something nefarious. MOO

 

[drmrgrl]

Does this killer have any remorse at all? Did they do it for the thrill? Did they try to send a broader message (no manifesto that we know of)? Do they believe they fulfilled personal revenge? Are they riddled with guilt for the victims that weren't the intended target?

IMO, yes, I think there is guilt present in the killer. This was manifested by getting rid of the vehicle or trying to hide it. He knew what he did was wrong. That’s my take IMO

 

[The Observer]

IN MY OPINION ONLY-they are looking for pictures at the frat party or involving those people with e and x. More and more I’m thinking e and x were killed first and may not fully have been asleep. Before the other girls arrived home. The early articles only gives one time for e and x (in Idaho statesman article from 11.16)—that’s from 8:00 on. They don’t know WHEN they got home except Xana’s dad indicated a text at 1230 that said they were home. Ethan’s mom noted in that article that the downstairs roomates heard loud male voices—and the downstairs roomates were said to be home by 1:00. So just thinking that they heard the loud voices ard then-and locked their doors. Once it was quiet they assumed (IMO) that the party was over and slept through the top floor murders. It’s possible that k and m came home at the end of it but didn’t know what had happened. Maybe they sawsomething they could ID him. Maybe he thought they could ID him-which is why they “had to go upstairs” to quote KG dad. Maybe there was someone waiting outside (a look out) as things were unfolding inside who the girls talked to (so they could ID them). Lots of scenarios are possible but anyone who was a witness is dead. I’m sure that has others scared to come forward. MOO.

RSBBM. LE have stated X and E returned to the house at approximately 1:45am. This has been known since early on.

Moscow Police

 

[hopewell]

IMO every killer is an amateur at one time. First time for everything adage.

I disagree that this was a psychotic serial killer. Serial killers have types. If you look at the women victims of a serial killer they all look enough alike to be sisters or brothers. An SK carefully watches for someone who fits his "type". A SK doesn't pick a random house and kill two blonde females, one brunette female and one male. Some of the people who have been mentioned on here are not bona fide serial killers. They are mass murderers, family annihilators or spree killers, not true serial killers like Bundy, Dahmer, BTK ect. A serial killer kills one victim at a time who has something in common with all his other victims, e.g all blondes, all brunettes, all children, all women, all men, all prostitutes ect.

These kids knew their killer and he knew them. Probably well. Knew their inclination to drink, party, have an open door policy at their home ect. This was no random guy hiding up in the woods and suddenly deciding to stab 4 people to death.

There is a motive behind these killings. The main motives for murder is money, sex or revenge. I would add keeping a secret but with 4 victims it is unlikely all 4 knew the killers secret. If keeping a secret known to one victim was the motive it would have been easier to get that victim alone rather than enter a house with six people or possibly more, that may or may not have been asleep. If one person in that house was awake they could have called 911. That is why I discount that theory, too many unknowns and variables.

This was not an assassination. Assassins don't use knives for a very good reason. If the target is a male and awake or wakes up during the attack the victim might fight back to the point he gains control of the assassins knife and turns it on him. If the target is a woman she might fight enough to get away. Assassins use a gun usually with a silencer and do a double tap to the head quietly and quickly.

This was a rage fueled murder. As SG described it "Sloppy, messy". No planning went into this. This was spur of the moment fueled by an overwhelming rage at one or more of the victims. You can bet the killer made a mistake or several of them that will lead to his/her arrest.

In naming the usual motives for murder, we know it was not money, nothing was stolen, it was not sex, no one was raped, so that leaves only revenge.

So what was the revenge for?

An altercation between the killer and one or more of the victims? This could have easily occurred at any one of these parties where you have testosterone filled young men drinking heavily. A friends grandson recently ended up with a broken nose after a dispute over ownership of a fishhook during a party just to outline how little a fight ending in injuries can break out where alcohol or drugs are involved. Here you have entire fraternities and sororities full of such young people all drinking and partying heavily, indeed from statistics, half of a town full. It's easy to see how an altercation that night or revenge for a prior altercation could have provoked these murders.


An ex boyfriend/girlfriend (I am not singling out any particular ex since I am sure all 4 victims have had prior ex boy/girlfriends at their age.)? Little has been said about prior relationships before college or the current ones named. M met her BF at college, E&X met at college, K had recently broken off a semi long term relationship that did not preclude a different relationship in between those on/off again breakups or even a current one that led to the breakup. Them being in a relationship does not preclude them having a fling outside the relationship at one time or another either. It's easy to see a jilted lover being responsible especially if that jilted lover believed the other three friends were in some way involved in he/she being jilted. I am not ruling out a woman with strong upper body strength, rage filled woman, with 4 drunk, sleeping victims.

Someone in that house was connected to the evil that came in it that night. That you can be sure of. Eventually the police will single out which one which in turn will lead them to the killer.

Then you have a college full of young people who live on SM and post their innermost private details of their lives on it. Nothing remains a secret for long among very socially active kids these days. Sooner or later, sworn to secrecy frat brothers or sorority sisters or not, someone will talk. After all this is the murder of 4 people, not a super secret dark of the night Greek ritual known only to the brothers and sisters of that Greek house.

Give these kids some time to think about how being charged as an accessory to 4 first degree murders can ruin their bright futures and all that sworn to be brothers and sisters forever will fly out the window.

ETA: When the killer is named there is going to be a lot of shock among relatives, townsfolk and people on here as to who it is and how close they were to the victims. IMO it's going to come out of left field.

JMO

I hope they drive a white Elantra, but I can't see how someone they knew could have driven one without it being reported by others pretty quickly.

My opinion.

 

[eloquence]

Although if she indeed had been working full time throughout high school and university (per her mother), 18 credits sounds like a stretch to me MOO.

I know of lots of people who do summer terms to get these types of credits - looks like Idaho has 3 summer terms, so could be taking a normal course load and doing online summers or in-person summers. Also, AP credits are pretty easy to get if you are smart like KG - I came into college with 18 credit hours just from AP exams, and most of my high school or college friends had a few AP credits. That's a whole semester right there.

 

[NuttMegg]

I think about my own children, a bit older than these victims, and really, how little I know about their lives. Young adults can be doing things that their parents, or even friends may have no clue about.

I can't help but wonder if LEO has found any information on the electronic devices that the victims had...that has led the case to something unexpected.

My parents had no idea what I was doing from about age 16 and on, except going to school. After 18, even less. I never heard it put better than the CSN&Y song... "Teach your Children".

 

[Marie D]

Spitballing here but potentially imo:

maybe LE thinks that the killer stalked K&M or E&X and the killer will potentially show up in multiple places near one of the pairs, and maybe if LE gets enough photos/videos, they'll find that person in the background multiple places, so as many angles, as innocuous as the photos may seem to be, maybe they'll find that face in the crowd? could that be a reason? JMO and asking.

Spitballing here but potentially imo:

maybe LE thinks that the killer stalked K&M or E&X and the killer will potentially show up in multiple places near one of the pairs, and maybe if LE gets enough photos/videos, they'll find that person in the background multiple places, so as many angles, as innocuous as the photos may seem to be, maybe they'll find that face in the crowd? could that be a reason? JMO and asking.

I believe the killers/killer was already in the house, and could have been very easily with the various ways to enter. The first two victims come home, fall asleep, which he waits for on account of the two housemates on 1st floor. Then the other two victims come home before he can exit from where he came in, the second floor sliding doors. Again, he waits till he hears silence, goes to exit, but may have woke one victim before the exit and out of recognition or fears of being stopped, he then has to eliminate one and then the other before his escape. The first floor housemates have no interest to his escaping because they hear or can see nothing. I’ve lied in a three floored house, and it’s extremely hard to hear anything of whatever is going on in the two upper floors and the same with the lower floor!

 

[Stunned]

My parents had no idea what I was doing from about age 16 and on, except going to school. After 18, even less. I never heard it put better than the CSN&Y song... "Teach your Children".

Got my “song in my head” for the day now!

 

[CityKid]

I know of lots of people who do summer terms to get these types of credits - looks like Idaho has 3 summer terms, so could be taking a normal course load and doing online summers or in-person summers. Also, AP credits are pretty easy to get if you are smart like KG - I came into college with 18 credit hours just from AP exams, and most of my high school or college friends had a few AP credits. That's a whole semester right there.

I'm not really questioning the credit hours as much as I am the credit hours on top of a full-time work schedule. Couple that with sorority social obligations and some downtime, and that can be quite demanding!