ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 39

[Thora_Jay]

The police have clearly more footage of the car. They seem to have zero doubt about the model and know it was in the immediate area of the King Street.

"As previously reported, detectives are interested in speaking with the occupant(s) of a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra, with an unknown license plate. Tips and leads have led investigators to look for additional information about a vehicle being in the immediate area of the King Street residence during the early morning hours of November 13th."

Yes, that is why I said the video from Linda Lane would be the first one for Anthony to check.

Law Enforcement gives an estimate year, I am saying he would know the make model and YEAR. Also why I stated that LE should hand copies of the videos to him.

 

[indicolite22]

The timeline of the white car is unusual, and unexpected. I haven't seen any updates that change the CCTV sightings of the white car.

The first sighting of the white car is 2:45-3:15 AM at Linda Lane heading West towards the murders. The vehicle remained in the area during the murders that are thought to have occurred between 3-4 AM. The same car is seen at 3:45 AM heading West and turning onto Hwy 95 or a side street near the intersection of Hwy 95 and Troy Road.

What that tells me is that police found CCTV of the vehicle driving to the mass murder address, but not leaving the address. The last contact with the victims is shortly before 3 AM. The white cars is seen after the murders heading in what seems to be the wrong direction at 3:45 AM.

Why is the car heading towards hwy 95 from East after the murders unless the murderer had a reason to be East of Hwy 95 immediately after the murders and turning onto Hwy 95 going where?

IMO the white car was caught on another camera closer to the murder house than Linda Lane (either arriving or leaving), otherwise there would be no guarantee that it ever came near enough or stayed in the area long enough to witness anything. Alternatively there could be a witness that saw the car. There were other vehicles on the police body cam that drove down Taylor Road in the same direction around the same time as the white car. Perhaps their occupants came forward and were cleared.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes, that is why I said the video from Linda Lane would be the first one for Anthony to check.

Law Enforcement gives an estimate year, I am saying he would know the make model and YEAR. Also why I stated that LE should hand copies of the videos to him.

Who is Anthony? Would he have better software than the FBI to clear up blurry images of the car?

 

[Thora_Jay]

Who is Anthony? Would he have better software than the FBI to clear up blurry images of the car?

The link (in blue) for Anthony is in the first sentence of the post.
Also if you want to, you can check out the YouTube video showing Anthony identifying a blurred image of a vehicle for LE that captured a murderer.
Thank-you MsBetsy for asking.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

The Hyundai man must have lived not too far away? Too far away and get caught on the highway?

How far would be reasonable time on the road?


I haven't got access to my big machine so can't do GIS research

 

[MsBetsy]

The link (in blue) for Anthony is in the first sentence of the post.
Also if you want to, you can check out the YouTube video showing Anthony identifying a blurred image of a vehicle for LE that captured a murderer.
Thank-you MsBetsy for asking.

Wow, he's only 12! What an accomplishment. I wonder if he or his parents have heard of this case.

It seems that what is making finding the car so difficult is that all three models look the same or at least very similar. I asked before if there were any differences at all between the three years but I forgot to go back and look for an answer.

I can't tell by looking at pictures because of all the different angles. I thought I saw a picture of a 2013 Elantra and the grill above the front bumper looked different than the others.

LE says they are making progress finding the car. I wonder how many of the 22,000 they have eliminated so far.

 

[cottonweaver]

To me this is a huge hint that there is an unnamed suspect who will be arrested soon, based on the below interview with Chief Fry, Moscow PD.

Idaho murders update: Owner of King Road property "cooperating" with police

While speaking with Newsweek on Wednesday, former FBI agent Jennifer Coffindaffer said that this case is "not cold at all."

www.newsweek.com

“You always hold back information on any case you work, but one this big you hold back because you want to have an unbiased jury pool," Fry said. "It's not just about today, it's about in a year from now or whenever we make an arrest and go to trial. We want to have that pool of people who can look at the case and not have all the facts to that to make the decision to find this person guilty."

yes....although the other part of me wondered whether he was just repeating what the prosecutor had said weeks earlier about the risks of tainting the jury pool

Prosecutor: Sharing murder info a 'balancing act'

Dec. 7—The Latah County prosecutor said the concern about having an unbiased jury influences what is being shared publicly about the investigation into the Nov. 13 murders of four University of Idaho students in Moscow. "There's always a concern, particularly in smaller communities like ours...

www.spokesman.com

 

[MsBetsy]

Moo-

Could KG’s sister have gotten it before the police? She got Uber video of girls being dropped off at home from neighbor before LE and she got food truck Video before LE. She had access to her phone and location’s and knew she was at corner club.

If I had to put money on it… I’d say she requested the footage from corner club before LE that first day. I’d assume they would gladly hand it over to her if the police hadn’t contacted them yet… as she was getting info to give to LE to help catch who did this.

Again… I doubt she or her family leaked it.

However…. If they did have this footage via her sisters incredible grief stricken investigative skills….

The lawyer they hired or anyone else working with family on investigation… they very possibly could have released it for multiple reasons.

why?

to put pressure on Moscow PD

possibly even to help JD and JS and A with public speculation given the video shows no one angry or uncomfortable….

Or here’s an idea…

the family got worried the case was losing momentum and the public following and attention it initially had after weeks with no big leads… and knew if the video was leaked it would grab everyone’s attention.

Realign the public’s attention back to catching who did this.

If I’m the parent of a brutally murdered child… and was worried my child’s murder investigation was going cold…. I’d do anything I needed to keep the public’s interest , which in turn could help catch their killer.

Again, all MOO…

But it’s definitely possible.

I think the reporter called the footage a "leak" to imply there may be evidence connected to it. Maybe they paid the person who provided it. Anyone can release a video but that doesn't mean it is leaked evidence.

The image just captured a few seconds, there are probably many hours of footage LE had to weed through from the bar alone. Apparently there are many security cameras inside and in the parking lot.

I don't think releasing the image would help if the intent was to keep public interest in the case. People on SM are probably trying to identify everybody in the image, which can lead to speculation and accusations.

I doubt any family members released it. They must know by now that doing so might hinder the investigation. It was probably someone who worked at the club.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Regarding the dog: I’d think it very likely that the dog might stay with its co-owner while she was traveling. If not, then maybe with her parents?

Posthumous degree—maybe no one thought of it? A lot going on—maybe the higher ups who could authorize it had bigger concerns, and the computer program that knows who filed the paperwork just ran as usual? Maybe her friends were all graduating at the end of the year and said they’d like her to graduate with them. Why do you think?

All my speculations

I'm wondering if the article that she was going to graduate in December was wrong and that she was only going to walk in December. In cases where the student officially graduates at a time they are out of town or doing virtual learning, they can apply to walk prior the official graduation when they're still in town. This happened to a friend of mine. She had only one class/project remaining and wanted to move to start a job. She walked in December, but didn't actually graduate until May. She had to apply to walk early and then they had a bunch of strict criteria she had to meet before such a request was granted. Her diploma was then mailed to her after the May graduation.

Perhaps something similar with Kaylee? I haven't kept up with all the posts and all the articles so forgive me if I'm totally off.

MOO.

 

[cottonweaver]

I think the reporter called the footage a "leak" to imply there may be evidence connected to it. Maybe they paid the person who provided it. Anyone can release a video but that doesn't mean it is leaked evidence.

The image just captured a few seconds, there are probably many hours of footage LE had to weed through from the bar alone. Apparently there are many security cameras inside and in the parking lot.

I don't think releasing the image would help if the intent was to keep public interest in the case. People on SM are probably trying to identify everybody in the image, which can lead to speculation and accusations.

I doubt any family members released it. They must know by now that doing so might hinder the investigation. It was probably someone who worked at the club.

afaik, after following this element since Tuesday

- it was Coffindaffer who called it a leak ( she didn't mean it was literally a leak from the investigative team)
- the still image was released to the public via reddit
- it was only later that the item was picked up by msm, first by Fox and later by Daily Mail com.
- no tabloids would have needed to pay for it. Fox linked it direct to Reddit as the source. Mail will have simply used the screenshot once the image was in the public sphere.

 

[Kittycat40]

MOO-

I really think it would be harmful to dispose of the vehicle in pretty much every scenario at this point.

This is a flagged across the US vehicle. On the front page of all social media and news networks.

Disposing the vehicle would render multiple ways to get caught…. Unless the car was purchased in secret and kept in secret garage from family and friends.

Which is highly doubtful and connects killer to car in both scenarios.

If the car was dumped into a lake or river… he’d have to get a ride home from someone. As in adding a witness… witness friend would likely ask… where is your car?

Witness could tell LE… this person had that type of car but not since they picked him up from river or lake.

Or

Killer could burn car. Potentially literally sending a smoke signal to LE to discover the burned car.

Killer could abandon car… but good spots are high traffic and again you risk being seen… which connects you to the crime.

He could report it stollen… which again… would put police focus on him, / lead police to him.

Just so many scenarios of why borrowing it and returning the car without anyone noticing it’s gone makes the most logical sense as to why they haven’t been able to find the vehicle.

They’ll knock it down.

The house is too exposed on all sides to get an anti-tourist cosmetic remodel ala Nicole Brown Simpson’s residence.

A major misconception about the Nicole Brown Simpson home is that it was demolished after her murder, but it was actually OJ's home in Brentwood that was taken down, not Nicole's. According to property records, Nicole's former townhouse was last sold for $1.7 million in 2016.Aug 30, 2022

Celebrity Homes with Photos, Google Map Locations & Tours › nico...

Nicole Brown Simpson House: Is The OJ Simpson Murder House Gone?​

 

[rainwaterstill]

Does the military have a DNA database? Not excluding vets? Surely this would eliminate a lot of people automatically?

The United States military has a database. It is run by the Dept. of Defense. The database is split into two parts: one part is for DNA identification. The other part uses DNA specimen samples for the identification of remains.
Tons of info at the first link.

The second link is a reprint of an article that originally appeared in the Army Times in December 2002. The lawyer who reposted it is a military law lawyer.

Department of Defense DNA Operations

The Department of Defense (DOD) deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) Registry provides the DOD and other federal agencies with DNA mission support in the areas of personnel accounting; defense, national security and intelligence; law enforcement; and humanitarian missions.

health.mil

Law expands access to military DNA - William E, Cassara

Army Times December 16, 2002 By Tranette Ledford Samples, once solely used for identifying dead, now can be used in crime investigations The military's

courtmartial.com

 

[Which_pancake]

Has anyone thought that maybe the killer didn’t know the layout and just assumed like anyone else that the bedrooms are upstairs (after entering from the back)? Then had a run in on the middle floor on the way out?

Maybe they didn’t scope out things as well as everyone thinks and kept getting surprised with how much attacking they ended up having to do.
I think this is less likely but definitely a possibility to consider.

I do think it's a good possibility if the killer came in the sliding doors, if he noticed the stairs down at all, he may have thought they were just to a utility basement or lower exit.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

It is feasible

The United States military has a database. It is run by the Dept. of Defense. The database is split into two parts: one part is for DNA identification. The other part uses DNA specimen samples for the identification of remains.
Tons of info at the first link.

The second link is a reprint of an article that originally appeared in the Army Times in December 2002. The lawyer who reposted it is a military law lawyer.

Department of Defense DNA Operations

The Department of Defense (DOD) deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) Registry provides the DOD and other federal agencies with DNA mission support in the areas of personnel accounting; defense, national security and intelligence; law enforcement; and humanitarian missions.

health.mil

Law expands access to military DNA - William E, Cassara

Army Times December 16, 2002 By Tranette Ledford Samples, once solely used for identifying dead, now can be used in crime investigations The military's

courtmartial.com

This could be used in a geanological familial dna search too

A relative in the army

 

[Kittycat40]

I do think it's a good possibility if the killer came in the sliding doors, if he noticed the stairs down at all, he may have thought they were just to a utility basement or lower exit.

I’ve said it before on this forum. The killer and or killers most likely came in through the sliding glass door which is on the 2nd floor, but killer and or killers thought they were on the first floor. Anyways he killed E and X then went upstairs and killed M and K. Then came back downstairs. IF he noticed the stairs leading down to the first floor he more than likely thought of it as a basement where you store things and or do laundry. Which is not a typical place someone would sleep in so the killer and or killers skipped it. I firmly believe that the killer and or killers did not knowingly intend to leave any living witness come hell or high water. Nonetheless, the 2 surviving girls on the first floor are lucky.

JMO

 

[Kittycat40]

It is feasible
This could be used in a geanological familial dna search too

Yup

 

[The OG]

afaik, after following this element since Tuesday

- it was Coffindaffer who called it a leak ( she didn't mean it was literally a leak from the investigative team)
- the still image was released to the public via reddit
- it was only later that the item was picked up by msm, first by Fox and later by Daily Mail com.
- no tabloids would have needed to pay for it. Fox linked it direct to Reddit as the source. Mail will have simply used the screenshot once the image was in the public sphere.

Is there a Reddit username that originally posted it? I can't find it and the OP likely was deleted.

 

[cottonweaver]

Is there a Reddit username that originally posted it? I can't find it and the OP likely was deleted.

for obvious reasons we can't link to that site but we can link to Fox msm.

here is the Fox link - December 27, 2022 5:46pm EST - which then links to the page if you follow the hyperlinks.

Idaho murders: Leaked image appears to show victims inside local bar hours before unsolved stabbings

A leaked image of two of the four University of Idaho victims has emerged as the investigation into a quadruple stabbing nears a seventh week without a suspect.

www.foxnews.com

 

[chrisinmd]

Going to read up on all of these. What about where the victims are not related? The fact that there were multiple victims in the Idaho murders is significant but even more so is the fact that they were not related (genetically). That is a huge obstacle in narrowing down motive and POI.

I can let you know of a unsolved murders of 2 victims not family related with a knife that occurred in my hometown about 20 years ago now. Goggle Dolly Madison Bakery Murders. Great Bend, Kansas

 

[RatFace]

Here's all I could find matching the 3+ victim, unsolved stabbing criterion:

Chen family killing (the family of four was stabbed/bludgeoned to death by an unknown person/s)

What I learned just now this is that there are a lot of stabbings in family contexts! Below is just a small sample, and 2 of these 3 cases occurred THIS MONTH. But it seems far fewer stabbings are committed by someone other than a member of the same family unit as the victims [edited for clarity].

Buffalo Grove family killing (five family members were stabbed to death in a suspected murder-suicide)

Broken Arrow killings (parents and three children stabbed to death in familicide)

Victoria, Texas triple stabbing (one death, two other injuries -- more family violence)

Bricca murders 1966 - family of 3 (parents and young daughter) stabbed to death in their bedrooms, unsolved

Bricca - Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost

www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov