ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 39

[Emerald1328]

small memorial plaque in the yard, no slider doors; alarm system, camera, new rentals IMO

Yep, if I were the landlord, I would spend a few thousand out of my own pocket to make it the safest house in Moscow for people to rent. And they probably will. It may take a year or so to get rented, but $30k in lost income for a year is better than whatever they have to pay off on the mortgage and future lost income beyond that year.

I understand people saying that the community or city could raise the funds to pay off the mortgage so it could be torn down, but what about the future years of lost income? At $3,000 per month, that’s $36k per year. Now with maintenance and other expenses the landlord would have, their profit is probably more like $30k per year. That may not seem like a lot for a corporation to absorb, but in 10 years, they would have lost $300k in profit.

And IMO only, I wouldn’t want to visit a park on land where a horrific quadruple murder occurred.

 

[Lilibet]

Kaylee was in Moscow for the weekend to show off her new vehicle. Anyone watching her social media could have known that she was in Moscow that weekend and then moving out of reach - to Florida. Moving to Florida could have been the catalyst, especially if there was an imagined romantic interest.

Knowing the house was as easy as sitting on the back hill to see where people slept, perhaps even breaking the patio lock prior to the break-in murders. I've always thought that an intruder with murder on the mind would clear the escape route after breaking-in - in this case that means clearing the second floor of the house before going upstairs to the targeted victims.

Yes, exactly. These answers are exactly what I figured they’d be and they fill in the potential “gaps” in my current theory. Thanks for laying them out so clearly.

 

[annpats]

I do think it's a good possibility if the killer came in the sliding doors, if he noticed the stairs down at all, he may have thought they were just to a utility basement or lower exit.

Well, he either knew the layout of the house extremely well, or he didn't and crept around and got lucky.

If he DID know the layout of the house and had been staking it and the residents out, then it's likely he would've known the the basement contained bedrooms and how many people lived there and where.

MOO.

 

[Butterscotch29]

What really sticks out to me about this case is the missing time for X,and E. K,and M's whereabouts,and time frame is pretty known,and tight. I think they knew the killer/s and maybe we're with them during the missing time. Possible even in the white Hyundai Elantra. For a while I thought it could be a neighbor angry about the noise,and partying,but the more I think about it the more the missing time seems key. Jmo.

I agree. Most are focused on K and her having a stalker but I’ve always come back to E and X and that missing time frame. It’s very possible they were with the killer during this time in that car and altercations happen at some point that led to this. Could’ve been building up over time and it snapped that night. I think this person is a friend of friends possibly someone who supplies drugs of some sort to the frat kids.

This entire case is so baffling and utterly bizarre. I can’t think of a recent case that has me turned in so many directions

 

[layer]

I'm wondering if the article that she was going to graduate in December was wrong and that she was only going to walk in December.

I wonder why she was disappeared from the Dean's List. Now you see me, now you don't.

It kind of reminds me of the old line from Mission Impossible: Should you or any member of your KM Force be caught or killed, the Dean will disavow any knowledge of your action.

 

[rizzo0904]

The killer doesn't have to have ever been in the house to know the layout well. Photos are available online. Just spend some time piecing it together and then study it.

Enter the second level sliding door or window, go up to the third floor to kill, get caught on the second floor and therefore kill some more, slide back out the way you came in.

MOO

 

[Tillicum]

I did notice she seemed to look larger (at the grub truck) than in her SM pictures, but I thought it wasn't germane as so much of SM is filtered.

The only pertinent thought I'd have is if she were pregnant, maybe by a new guy who wasn't happy about it, and she may have been targeted for that. A very common and tragic motive throughout history.

But truthfully her apparent weight gain didn't look like a pregnancy, so I figured it wasn't something I should speculate on.

Jmo IMO and 100% speculative ramblings.

IMO she hadn't gained weight, it's the style of jeans she was wearing. I say this because I bought several pairs when they were on clearance. On the rack they're super cute but once you put them on, you add 20 lbs to your appearance. I love the comfort level but I only wear them around friends and family in a relaxed environment. I have granddaughters KG's age but I guess I'm a vain grandma. I would never wear them in a situation where I was concerned about the impression I would make. So when I noticed her wearing those jeans and looking a little heavier, I just thought she was relaxed and comfortable with the people she was around. JMO.

 

[Justice101]

If LE had said PUBLICLY early on that they had a POI already identified.... ask yourself would we as a group go to a more basic and familial explanation for who killed them?

Yes, I think so and I think we would all ASSUME that the explanation is someone they knew closely.

So if LE has been keeping this early information close to the chest, that makes the list of probable suspects much shorter. Knowing that would also explain why the initial comment about no immediate danger to the general public.

What is perplexing if that is the case is why it is taking so long to gather enough evidence to make an arrest.

That's all.. just food for thought.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Yep, if I were the landlord, I would spend a few thousand out of my own pocket to make it the safest house in Moscow for people to rent. And they probably will. It may take a year or so to get rented, but $30k in lost income for a year is better than whatever they have to pay off on the mortgage and future lost income beyond that year.

I understand people saying that the community or city could raise the funds to pay off the mortgage so it could be torn down, but what about the future years of lost income? At $3,000 per month, that’s $36k per year. Now with maintenance and other expenses the landlord would have, their profit is probably more like $30k per year. That may not seem like a lot for a corporation to absorb, but in 10 years, they would have lost $300k in profit.

And IMO only, I wouldn’t want to visit a park on land where a horrific quadruple murder occurred.

Along with your financial observations, I think it's important to note that a house isn't going to be torn down unless the owner approves it or the city condemns it. JMO

 

[rizzo0904]

I've noticed there seems to be two sides. There is the E and X side and then the K and M side. They are almost always divided in discussion and in the assertiveness level of family and friends in discussion. I don't know what I think about it. Maybe all four weren't intended victims that night? Maybe it's just the personalities of those involved and how they handle stressful situations? In my mind, and I hope I never experience it, I think I'd be more aggressive and out there if my child was an unintended victim. If they had been the target and the "reason" others were killed, I might fade into the woodwork more. There's so much psychologically with this case.....all MOO

 

[Trino]

Betsy's case has possible links to Zodiac (due to desktop poem being discovered that described the dress she wore that day). Said poem was found by a janitor when Police investigated murder of Cheri Jo Bates who was also stabbed to death very near the high school library (she was actually on her way home from there). Difference vs this case is that e.g. Betsy was killed with a single blow to the heart, almost surgical. Also neither of the girls was attacked in her home during sleep. If I was to look for similar unsolved cases I'd go with Jeuttens'. No need to go as far back as 1969.

College killing vs Jon B Ramsey - child killing.

 

[JackieBrown]

what's bugging me is: -

Normally a party house - no party on that night!!!

KG had moved out but KG returned that weekend to catch up with MM and show her new car

All residents and EC home by 1.56am having been out separately

Having lived in a “party house” - I also find it odd that there was no gathering that we know of on the night that other parties were occurring AND KG was back in town. People would just randomly show up at our house and an unplanned party would “just happen” a lot or we would meet ppl out at a party and retire to our house for a smaller party, of that makes sense. With everyone gone and split up across town, I’m curious if anyone went by checking for a party…there’s the entire daytime timeline we are still missing…

Completely MOO, and conjecture, but if I were trying to avoid someone who was a “frequent flyer” a frequent drop-in uninvited at my house, someone who I know would be coming by looking for a party- I would make sure there was NO PARTY at my house that they could be drawn to. I would make sure I was not at home until “too late” to open the door for company. It’s one thing to run into someone in piblic where you can leave, and it’s another to have someone in your home that you want to leave.

 

[MsBetsy]

The killer doesn't have to have ever been in the house to know the layout well. Photos are available online. Just spend some time piecing it together and then study it.

Enter the second level sliding door or window, go up to the third floor to kill, get caught on the second floor and therefore kill some more, slide back out the way you came in.

MOO

Yeah, I don't think the perp needed to be inside that house to be familiar with it.

If he had been watching the house in the days before the murder, it would have been easy to see inside the bedroom windows at night.

If he saw lots of people going around the house and walking in through the sliding glass doors, he might have known it was unlocked at night, if that was the case. If not he probably knew how to get it open.

IMO

 

[SMK777]

If LE had said PUBLICLY early on that they had a POI already identified.... ask yourself would we as a group go to a more basic and familial explanation for who killed them?

Yes, I think so and I think we would all ASSUME that the explanation is someone they knew closely.

So if LE has been keeping this early information close to the chest, that makes the list of probable suspects much shorter. Knowing that would also explain why the initial comment about no immediate danger to the general public.

What is perplexing if that is the case is why it is taking so long to gather enough evidence to make an arrest.

That's all.. just food for thought.

BBM Yes, it’s definitely frustrating, but as I’ve stated elsewhere here, my experience with reading true crime books and following cases for many years has shown me that even when they’re honed in on a POI/suspect, it’s often a surprisingly long and arduous process to get to the point of obtaining an arrest warrant.

What’s been most surprising to me is that law enforcement in many cases believe that they don’t yet have enough evidence, when to me or many laymen, it would appear that they have more than enough.

 

[Montecore1]

Yep, if I were the landlord, I would spend a few thousand out of my own pocket to make it the safest house in Moscow for people to rent. And they probably will. It may take a year or so to get rented, but $30k in lost income for a year is better than whatever they have to pay off on the mortgage and future lost income beyond that year.

I understand people saying that the community or city could raise the funds to pay off the mortgage so it could be torn down, but what about the future years of lost income? At $3,000 per month, that’s $36k per year. Now with maintenance and other expenses the landlord would have, their profit is probably more like $30k per year. That may not seem like a lot for a corporation to absorb, but in 10 years, they would have lost $300k in profit.

I have some rental properties (small apt complexes) and I pay extra (not much) on the monthly insurance for BI "business interruption" insurance.
Business interruption: While commercial property pays for actual physical damages or losses, BI covers lost net income due to the closure of the business while repairs are underway. My policy covers rent or lease payments, relocation costs, employee wages, taxes, and loan payments etc.

In other words this basically provides the lost income revenue if the property needs to be vacant for an extended time do to fire/hurricane etc repairs. I have no idea if thats available in Idaho or if the owner has it...not even sure if it covers a situation like this. Im going to asked my agent just because now my morbid curiosity is peaked...

I would also imagine that the home owner will be added to any upcoming possible Wrongful Death lawsuits, noting something to do with the homes security or lack there of that it didn't have. His insurance should also cover the attorney costs and any payout or settlement from that lawsuit

 

[Tillicum]

Very interesting discussion on clean up at house.

 

[DizzyB]

IMO she hadn't gained weight, it's the style of jeans she was wearing. I say this because I bought several pairs when they were on clearance. On the rack they're super cute but once you put them on, you add 20 lbs to your appearance. I love the comfort level but I only wear them around friends and family in a relaxed environment. I have granddaughters KG's age but I guess I'm a vain grandma. I would never wear them in a situation where I was concerned about the impression I would make. So when I noticed her wearing those jeans and looking a little heavier, I just thought she was relaxed and comfortable with the people she was around. JMO.

I did not see in much in the way of changes in K’s figure. I thought she looked the same as in the bodycam footage. K seemed to be quite comfortable with her body, socmedia images that are shared tend to be the most flattering. I have been out with people who will take a gazillion photos before they find they one that is postworthy.

 

[VaBorn]

IRT military dna database usage by LE. 10 U.S. Code § 1565a - DNA samples maintained for identification of human remains: use for law enforcement purposes
“
(1)
Subject to paragraph (2), if a valid order of a Federal court (or military judge) so requires, an element of the Department of Defense that maintains a repository of DNA samples for the purpose of identification of human remains shall make available, for the purpose specified in subsection (b), suchDNA samples on such terms and conditions as such court (or military judge) directs.”

Also of related interest, in 2019 DoD advised military members to NOT use commercial DNA companies (ancestry, 23&me, etc) due to potential security risks. Pentagon tells military personnel not to use at-home DNA kits

 

[acutename]

well, we can't both be wrong then, right the whole Troy/Kendrick thing really threw me, too, but that's why I went back to google maps and started again. IF he did do something like that, though, there had to be a benefit to Troy/Kendrick, so what was it? Knows the area well? Safe place to borrow a car? Dump the car? Access to someplace he could hide his clean up gear? Why would he choose to go that direction? IMO it's not because he lives there, so it's something else. But IDK, just looking for reason in something so unfathomable, I guess.

I've spent enough time with those maps that I think I could give area tours, and at that point in November, the killer, if this was planned and if they were roadtripping to do this esp, knew the window was closing because snow (unless he's an elf, he would leave footprints in snow) and limitations on easy ways to get into town/out of town. Just a guess, but I think this guy is probably in decent shape, so he could have biked or done the run back into town, and with planning and preparation, he could have been out of there before the bodies were even found.

you do not even use a car if you are from really close IMO, so there has to be a connection to going east IMO

 

[Montecore1]

I am kind of perplexed about the CC photo release - whoever thought it was relevant to release it (whether for money or other reason) I am a bit surprised to see the people in that photo. Cannot put my finger on why? or if its relevant or not???.

Im assuming this photo is a screen shot from the cctv camera footage. The person that captured it off the footage didn't just supply a random shot. They were very careful and precise to pick juuuust the right frame to leak. Im not naming individuals in the pic but seemingly this shot just happens to capture most of the players in this situation to the point that its kinda obvious, the person even made sure that no one was standing in front of or blocking anyone else.