ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #4

[chrisinmd]

I felt the need to comment on the knife they have showed a bit because possibly speaking to local dealers may not give any clues. I have 2 ka-bars. I’ve had them for years, with the emblem and sheath on them and everything. And I ordered them directly from ka bar and through the mail, they came really quickly and if I remember correctly they used UPS. I hope that’s an avenue they are exploring because it’s really easy to buy online and there isn’t any approval process or like with ammo, any ffl tracking.
I can totally understand how the knife can be used in this capacity by just holding it, it holds comfortably and stable. The hilt is very slightly bent and that will prevent a reasonable amount of slippage, definitely not in all circumstances like this one though. The handle has groves in it for grip too. I have not used it violently but I don’t think it would be an issue for me, especially with minimal knife combat skills and I think it would be a great weapon to have in a situation where I needed to defend myself. The edge is very sharp and it holds well. These knives are well made and I actually feel safe with it tbh. I’ll be honest, mine is for protection and I will carry it if I go in the woods too because i see it as a decent survival knife if need be.
Back in the military it was kind of a status symbol to have a ka bar. A lot of the guys had them and basically just strapped to their legs and never used. I cringe to think this knife was used in these horrible murders.

In using this type of knife would the killer hand likely slip on the knife cutting the killers own hand? I guess that is common in knife murders killers hand slipping down the blade and cutting himself. Leaving there own DNA. I guess it sounds like they all had a single stab would to the chest is that correct? Guess slippage is more common with someone who is awake and fighting back

 

[Blue_Painting]

Also, the girls were at the bar for a long time. Could something important have happened there, as the bar owner didn't want to talk to the press? He said he didn't want to possibly hurt the investigation or his relationship with police. Could that imply that there is something meaningful that took place that night at his bar?

 

[alsleuther]

I really like this theory, my only question is wouldn’t the girls downstairs have heard that type of commotion? If vsco is accurate time wise, the 2 surviving girls were up until 1, or at least one of them was. So if the killer was in the house right before the murder there’s a good chance he would’ve heard the two on the lowest floor. Just my thoughts though and your theory does make sense, maybe the girls were playing music and couldn’t hear. Those 2 surviving are definitely key. If this truly was a rampage killer he would’ve definitely tried every single door in that house. IMO

Even when I was in college 20 years ago, in a living situation with 4 bedrooms, we all had a dead bolt lock on the bedroom door, that could only be opened with a key from the outside, and then we all shared common space - kitchen and den area. The property management company rented out each room individually, so it was standard to have a deadbolt on each bedroom door. That way if only 5 of 6 bedrooms had a lease in place and a paying tenant, the 6th bedroom could not be occupied and lived in without the 6th person contracting directly with the Property Management Company.

 

[1mtroyal]

Can anyone from the US explain gun laws/access to guns in the state of Idaho. IMO the fact the perp(s) used a knife instead of a gun, in a country where guns are widely accessible, is interesting. A gun with a silencer (even an improvised one) would be less gruesome, quicker, and easier to commit four murders.

It potentially suggests the perp(s) have a fascination with violence and gore and possibly that they were younger than the legal age to own a gun, so instead opted for a large knife, which I assume is much easier to get your hands on. Either way I think this looks like an act of opportunity IMO, but likely someone who is or was familiar with the area as a student long ago, possibly regularly looks through dorm windows, a peeping tom of sorts, broken into homes before and had escalating behaviour.

Note: The reason I say perp(s) is because there may have been more than one involved, with one taking each floor and then leaving together, as others have pointed out four victims in such a short space of time is a lot and as there was no known sexual motive, which would typically be committed alone with the victim. There is also the incel angle, which has a loose sexual motive of wanting to kill pretty girls and possibly men who are associated with them.

I agree with the first part on advantages of using a gun but in my experience guns sometimes jam. But if it is someone really angry, and they want to release their rage and would choose a knife.

I've seen other students have said that the apartment was somewhat of a "party place" - crash pad, etc. They said they wouldn't be surprised if someone had gotten word of the code. Didn't seem to be a closely held secret.

Not saying it wasn't someone known - especially in such a small town. Just saying the door code might not be the smoking gun.

If the suspect came thru the sliding door, there should be fingerprints unless he/she was wearing gloves.

Yes, majorly.

Over 100 law people involved. Not counting the DNA processors.

I wonder if they invited someone back to the house with them and let him in themselves. And then when they fell asleep he killed them. Explain why no forced entry.

Motive seems to be the real mystery here. No sexual assault. No robbery so money dosent appear to be a motive is that correct? Guess that leaves revenge. Perhaps jealous EX or stalker? Or random serial killer type that they did not know. But I would think there would be forced entry in that scenario?

IMO They probably did not know there was a dog in the house.

 

[SortaSleuthy]

On Fox News Nancy Grace just said that the survivors were sleeping on the top floor. I really would like some clarity on this.

The long and the short of it: Nancy is long on drama, short on factual accuracy.

 

[elmomom]

I felt the need to comment on the knife they have showed a bit because possibly speaking to local dealers may not give any clues. I have 2 ka-bars. I’ve had them for years, with the emblem and sheath on them and everything. And I ordered them directly from ka bar and through the mail, they came really quickly and if I remember correctly they used UPS. I hope that’s an avenue they are exploring because it’s really easy to buy online and there isn’t any approval process or like with ammo, any ffl tracking.
I can totally understand how the knife can be used in this capacity by just holding it, it holds comfortably and stable. The hilt is very slightly bent and that will prevent a reasonable amount of slippage, definitely not in all circumstances like this one though. The handle has groves in it for grip too. I have not used it violently but I don’t think it would be an issue for me, especially with minimal knife combat skills and I think it would be a great weapon to have in a situation where I needed to defend myself. The edge is very sharp and it holds well. These knives are well made and I actually feel safe with it tbh. I’ll be honest, mine is for protection and I will carry it if I go in the woods too because i see it as a decent survival knife if need be.
Back in the military it was kind of a status symbol to have a ka bar. A lot of the guys had them and basically just strapped to their legs and never used. I cringe to think this knife was used in these horrible murders.

Danny Rollings used a Kabar knife to kill multiple UF students In Gainesville.

 

[Gae]

In using this type of knife would the killer hand likely slip on the knife cutting the killers own hand? I guess that is common in knife murders killers hand slipping down the blade and cutting himself. Leaving there own DNA. I guess it sounds like they all had a single stab would to the chest is that correct? Guess slippage is more common with someone who is awake and fighting back

Even if there's no slippage, the perp can still get cuts and bleed by accidentally cutting himself while trying to hold a struggling victim with one hand.

 

[mickey2942]

The sliding glass door is interesting. So many of us had a door like that on our home. If you were locked out, it was easy to take the glass door off the sliders, and get in. I remember doing it several times. Those older glass panel doors are a security joke.

 

[CaptRenault]

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Where would we be without "experts?"

I don't disagree with anything said by this anonymous "expert." (It's weird that the video doesn't introduce him to establish his credentials but I assume he is a prof at WSU or U of I--I don't know.)

However, I am left with the same conclusion that I had one day, three days and five days after the murder, i.e. we got nothin'.

It still seems possible that the killer was known to one or more of the victims or that the killer was unknown to the victims. Based on what we actually know, either scenario still seems conceivable and reasonable. My mind goes back and forth between the two scenarios, depending on whether the latest news or official update seems to reinforce one theory or the other.

But even if we could know for sure whether the killer was known or unknown to the victims, investigators still seem to have little else to go on. Maybe they are making great progress and keeping it a secret, but I am more mystified by this case than when I first read about it six days ago.

 

[Sarahlou]

It feels pretty significant that Kaylee had a stalker. I wonder how much is known about the stalker?

 

[technicallymissing]

Also, the girls were at the bar for a long time. Could something important have happened there, as the bar owner didn't want to talk to the press? He said he didn't want to possibly hurt the investigation or his relationship with police. Could that imply that there is something meaningful that took place that night at his bar?

Given how high profile this case is I don’t think someone not wanting to talk to the press necessarily means anything, especially someone with a small business to keep afloat. I believe what he said was that he has a “good working relationship” with the police. As a bar owner he is probably deals with and even relies on LE fairly often for belligerent drunk people, bar fights etc. and doesn’t want to say anything, even accidentally, that could cast more scrutiny on them (à la coroner Mabbutt) than they’re already getting.

As a side note- having grown up in a place even smaller than Moscow, small towns tend to be more loyal to/defensive of LE. (Delphi of course is another good example.)

 

[elmomom]

Where would we be without "experts?"

I don't disagree with anything said by this anonymous "expert." (It's weird that the video doesn't introduce him to establish his credentials but I assume he is a prof at WSU or U of I--I don't know.)

However, I am left with the same conclusion that I had one day, three days and five days after the murder, i.e. we got nothin'.

It still seems possible that the killer was known to one or more of the victims or that the killer was unknown to the victims. Based on what we actually know, either scenario still seems conceivable and reasonable. My mind goes back and forth between the two scenarios, depending on whether the latest news or official update seems to reinforce one theory or the other.

But even if we could know for sure whether the killer was known or unknown to the victims, investigators still seem to have little else to go on. Maybe they are making great progress and keeping it a secret, but I am more mystified by this case than when I first read about it six days ago.

the longer it takes to identify a suspect, the more likely it is that he is unknown to the victims. I am personally at 60 stranger : 40 known individual

 

[alsleuther]

With as high a profile as this case is I don’t think someone not wanting to talk to the press necessarily means anything, especially someone with a small business to keep afloat. I believe what he said was that he has a “good working relationship” with the police. As a bar owner he is probably deals with and even relies on LE fairly often for belligerent drunk people, bar fights etc. and doesn’t want to potentially say anything that could cast even more scrutiny on them (a la coroner Mabbutt).

His lawyer probably told him not to make any statements. If anyone followed the Paighton Houston story from B'ham, Alabama. She went missing from a bar and it turned out the only cameras in the bar were focused on the cash registers, so Police were not easily able to see who Paighton was talking to while in the bar.

There was a lot of misinformation and mystery, but it ended up being she wound up across town with some people in the drug scene and ended up overdosing on morphine and the guy she was with buried her in a shallow grave.

Two years later, her family sued both the man that dumped her body AND the bar where she spent her last evening. While the entire situation is horribly sad, I'm not sure what legitimate reason the family would have to sue the bar. They were not responsible for her death.

2 years after Paighton Houston found dead, lawsuit filed against bar, Birmingham, man accused of dumping body

 

[MeadowMuffin]

I'm a criminal profiling junkie from way back. In order to weed out suspects, one must study the behavior at the crime scene in order to narrow down the suspect list. In this case, you have a perpetrator with a premeditated plan who brought along his Rambo-style knife to a crime scene. Could this mean he has a military background or experience as a police or security officer? I bet one thing is certain...he is a gun and knife enthusiast with an obsession for tactical maneuvers and thinks he is the smartest person in the room wherever he goes. Just some thoughts.

I'm not so sure about this. Eric Copple stabbed to death 2 women in Napa, Halloween night in 2004. No military or LE background. He was jealous of his fiance's close friendship with one of the women, so he decided to kill her. The roommate was collateral damage. The third roommate was unharmed. And he was familiar with the house and knew there was a third bedroom.

 

[NervousNellie]

I keep thinking of the Groene family. I know the cases are very different, yet I am reminded of the total randomness of it.

 

[Blue_Painting]

If Ethan and Xana left the party at 9/10, maybe they went to The Corner Club and met up with Caylee and Madison? Could Caylee and Madison have texted them from the food truck asking them to pick them up and take them home? It seems now that the Uber is incorrect, and a private party drove the girls home.

 

[rsd1200]

I'm a criminal profiling junkie from way back. In order to weed out suspects, one must study the behavior at the crime scene in order to narrow down the suspect list. In this case, you have a perpetrator with a premeditated plan who brought along his Rambo-style knife to a crime scene. Could this mean he has a military background or experience as a police or security officer? I bet one thing is certain...he is a gun and knife enthusiast with an obsession for tactical maneuvers and thinks he is the smartest person in the room wherever he goes. Just some thoughts.

Rambo-style knives have serrated edge on one side and a smooth blade on the other. The perp was up close and personal with each victim when they murdered them. I think there was only one perp b/c the same knife appears to have been used on each victim. Agree, military style, but, they can be picked up/ordered by anyone.

"Ka-Bar knives are about 6 inches long and "similar to the knife Rambo has," Jutte said. They have a blade on one side and a serrated edge on the other. The combat knife was issued by the U.S. Marine Corps in the 1940s, according to the company’s website. "
Rambo style knife used

 

[Gumbeaux]

Is it possible the girls were calling J because they saw someone walking around the house or trying to open doors, and they thought it was him?

Good theory, but given the timing of the calls would they have been able to go to sleep any time soon thereafter? If they knowingly had someone lurking outside I cannot imagine the girls would settle to sleep right away. Unless alcohol aided sleepiness at such a late hour.

LE has stated that they believe the victims were asleep when attacked. Really curious what time the attacks actually occurred, given this flurry of very late phone calls.

I also expected to wake to news of an arrest. Given the vast horror of this crime, there has to be SO much evidence. Could come down to any person of interest not having DNA on file previously — and that is very likely if the person is young. Of course we don’t know they are young, but in this “targeted” attack, I believe that is likely.

Wishing comfort to grieving family, friends, community, and first responders dealing with this senseless horror.

 

[Oregonmama]

A lot of posts re Greek life and I just wanted share a perspective. Being a brother or sister on Greek row is much more than parties. We were very much committed to community service which was mandatory, and we were in the community a lot supporting local charities and doing fundraisers. Many house parties that I organized had a door cover charge to gain entrance and that went straight to the charity we were supporting that month. The victims would have been exposed to the whole community so that opens up the sp pool quite alot. JMO

 

[ACG2x]

Also, the girls were at the bar for a long time. Could something important have happened there, as the bar owner didn't want to talk to the press? He said he didn't want to possibly hurt the investigation or his relationship with police. Could that imply that there is something meaningful that took place that night at his bar?

Or he sees the rampant speculation, rumors, innuendo, etc. that's happening to people who have talked with the press and wants none of it to protect his business. I'm certain he feels that if he says anything - even innocuous - someone will spin it into the bar wasn't keeping the girls safe, etc. or the other crazy true crime sites will start to accuse him because that's always how it works.

It's also possible his attorney's said don't say a word in case there is a liability suit of some kind in the future. I think back to a number of people who were totally uninvolved in a homicide who talked with the press and all of a sudden it's "well, maybe there's more to this..." when the dots of course aren't there.