ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #4

[otto]

I'm curious whether the girls got a ride home with an Uber driver who has been located, or whether they got a ride with a private party who has not been located.


"At approximately 1:40 a.m., Kaylee and Madison were seen on video at a local food vendor called the “Grub Truck” at 318 S. Main Street and used Uber from downtown to arrive at their 1122 King Road residence at 1:45 a.m."

Nov 18
Press Release

"Alivia found the potentially crucial video of her sister and Mogen at a food truck just hours before they were murdered. She also tracked down their Uber driver."

Nov 18
InsideEdition

"Police in Idaho are hunting for the person who gave two of the four murdered students a ride home shortly before they were killed, as they announced they had ruled out as suspects the students' housemates and a man seen loitering behind them at a food truck.
...

'Through further investigation, MPD learned Kaylee and Madison used a private party for a ride home from Grub Truck at approximately 1:40 a.m,' police said."

Nov 19
DailyMail

 

[Bnic84]

If it was targeted, why kill all four people? Why not just whoever was the target? If the person knew who they were and was at the house before, wouldn't they have known about the other two girls? Why kill just the other four and not everyone?

If it was a jealous ex, why kill all four and not just the girl that was targeted? The fact that they got in and out with no struggle, and killed four people with one knife so quietly no one else in the house was awakened, and the neighbors didn't hear or see anything makes me feel like it was someone more experienced or had this very planned out. Not really some jealous ex boyfriend college kid.

It almost seems like they weren't familiar with the house and didn't realize there were more bedrooms on the lower level. So they just killed everyone in the bedrooms upstairs. Thrill seeking?

It is awful and I feel so bad for all involved. I cannot imagine the pain they must feel.

 

[ACG2x]

Good theory, but given the timing of the calls would they have been able to go to sleep any time soon thereafter? If they knowingly had someone lurking outside I cannot imagine the girls would settle to sleep right away. Unless alcohol aided sleepiness at such a late hour.

LE has stated that they believe the victims were asleep when attacked. Really curious what time the attacks actually occurred, given this flurry of very late phone calls.

I also expected to wake to news of an arrest. Given the vast horror of this crime, there has to be SO much evidence. Could come down to any person of interest not having DNA on file previously — and that is very likely if the person is young. Of course we don’t know they are young, but in this “targeted” attack, I believe that is likely.

Wishing comfort to grieving family, friends, community, and first responders dealing with this senseless horror.

The timeframe of between 3-4 AM of the murders matches the calls happening before then. In fact, it lines up pretty perfectly. I still think they called him so many times because they were still buzzing from being at the bar, being out, etc. and either were bored and couldn't sleep or wanted to mess with him. Like haha, we're still up and now you are, etc. Drunk kids do that and yes, I speak from personal experience.

I still don't really believe there was anything alarming them to cause them to call him. If so, I truly believe they would've called 911 at least after the second or third try.

 

[Blue_Painting]

I'm curious whether the girls got a ride home with an Uber driver who has been located, or whether they got a ride with a private party who has not been located.


"At approximately 1:40 a.m., Kaylee and Madison were seen on video at a local food vendor called the “Grub Truck” at 318 S. Main Street and used Uber from downtown to arrive at their 1122 King Road residence at 1:45 a.m."

Nov 18
Press Release

"Alivia found the potentially crucial video of her sister and Mogen at a food truck just hours before they were murdered. She also tracked down their Uber driver."

Nov 18
InsideEdition

"Police in Idaho are hunting for the person who gave two of the four murdered students a ride home shortly before they were killed, as they announced they had ruled out as suspects the students' housemates and a man seen loitering behind them at a food truck.
...

'Through further investigation, MPD learned Kaylee and Madison used a private party for a ride home from Grub Truck at approximately 1:40 a.m,' police said."

Nov 19
DailyMail

Agree. This is odd and would love clarity. I think the confusion is because LE doesn't want the public to know. JMO

 

[ACG2x]

If it was targeted, why kill all four people? Why not just whoever was the target? If the person knew who they were and was at the house before, wouldn't they have known about the other two girls? Why kill just the other four and not everyone?

If it was a jealous ex, why kill all four and not just the girl that was targeted? The fact that they got in and out with no struggle, and killed four people with one knife so quietly no one else in the house was awakened, and the neighbors didn't hear or see anything makes me feel like it was someone more experienced or had this very planned out. Not really some jealous ex boyfriend college kid.

It almost seems like they weren't familiar with the house and didn't realize there were more bedrooms on the lower level. So they just killed everyone in the bedrooms upstairs. Thrill seeking?

It is awful and I feel so bad for all involved. I cannot imagine the pain they must feel.

MOO is the killer was looking for either MM or KG and one of them was the target. I've speculated on previous threads for this case that the killer is a young male between 18-30 who was enraged at some perceived wrong one or more of the girls did to him and the goal was to kill her to punish her in his mind. If this were more planned out, the crime scene wouldn't be so messy and/or the killer would've used an easier weapon to kill such as a gun.

The way the crime scene has been described from what we have gotten is an absolute bloody mess which indicates an unsophisticated person in a rage. What I suspect happened was he entered the home through the sliding door and was at least somewhat familiar with the residence and probably had been there before. He went looking in bedrooms for his target and came across EC/XK who presumably were sleeping in the same bed together since they were dating.

Perhaps they rustled awake but he now knows they at least could possibly identify him and has to silence them. The wounds we've heard described by the ME and with LE's latest release indicate a number of wild hacks in quick succession. Basically keep stabbing both of them until they stop moving - nothing really planned about it. Just get it done.

He then goes upstairs and finds MM and KG - one of which is his target. Since they are both there, they both have to be silenced and hacks both of them in a rage then likely realizes he's been in the house for a while and neets to get out. Since the other two roommates were in locked bedrooms and didn't come out, perhaps the killer in his rage forgot there were two others or thought they weren't home. Either way, they can't identify him so he exits.

 

[Snoopster]

Since reports have come out that M&K took a private ride home from the food truck, I wonder if E&X or the other roommates could have made the quick trip to pick them up, thus explaining how they all ended up at home @1:45?

MOO

Moscow LE has stated that K&M took an Uber home.

The party that E&X attented was easy walking distance to their house.

 

[Bree1950]

Yes, agreed. How did the perp just walk out of there covered in blood and not caught on any nearby surveillance cameras. I think the key to all of this is the girls' phone records. I think the Police must know a lot more than they are releasing, and maybe even why their first statement said there was no threat to the general public. This case brings me back to the McKenzie Lueck case. The key to her killer was all in the cell phone contact b/t the two in the wee hours of the night when she went missing, but the Police didn't immediately identify AA. If I remember correctly they gave him a few days to walk free and clean up evidence. They were tracking him, watching him try to offer up a mattress on a Freecycle website, sell some women's boots and a smart Watch online and drive out to the final resting place of the remains. I also think it was tight lipped b/c their connection was a Sugar Daddy/Sugar Baby website. I have to believe the Police have a suspect in mind in this case. Maybe they just can't locate him right now? And maybe it's taking time for the Police to subpoena the texts from the cell phone carrier. A seasoned detective can probably get this information pretty quickly, but in a small, quiet town like this, I imagine the Police and Detectives just aren't going to be as knowledgable about obtaining the technological evidence.

It depends on the carrier if LE can get cell phone records and/or texts. If you have a carrier with their own lines like ATT or Verizon they are available for LE as soon as they are retrieved. If your carrier leases the line from a carrier with their own lines like T mobile, Consumer Cellular etc they have different Federal laws and the data is governess differently! This came out when Owen Klinger was missing in Portland. LE couldn’t get his cell records and/or texts because the FCC didn’t govern the law since the family carrier had a company which leased lines from a major carrier. They didn't have records for months! My late husband was a Prosecutor for many years and this is the reason we always had major company cell service.

 

[RaechelK]

On Fox News Nancy Grace just said that the survivors were sleeping on the top floor. I really would like some clarity on this.

I’ve been assuming that the two survivors’ bedrooms are on the same floor, but I don’t think we know that. Perhaps two victims had bedrooms on the second floor, one victim and one survivor had bedrooms on the third floor, and one survivor has a bedroom on the first/basement floor along with the sixth unleased bedroom. Victim EC was a guest who lived elsewhere. Might explain some of the confusing information floating around. MOO.

 

[ACG2x]

Moscow LE has stated that K&M took an Uber home.

The party that E&X attented was easy walking distance to their house.

And Uber is considered a "private ride" since you are riding in a private citizen's vehicle. They work for the company but it's still considered a private vehicle. Public transportation is obviously a bus, etc. and if it were a taxi then report would've said that.

 

[ShadyLady]

I think a knife was used....because killer knew multiple people lived in that house. A gun would make too much noise. So, I think one or more victims were the target, and the rest were collateral damage. Jealousy or vengeance....imo.

 

[danablue1]

MOO is the killer was looking for either MM or KG and one of them was the target. I've speculated on previous threads for this case that the killer is a young male between 18-30 who was enraged at some perceived wrong one or more of the girls did to him and the goal was to kill her to punish her in his mind. If this were more planned out, the crime scene wouldn't be so messy and/or the killer would've used an easier weapon to kill such as a gun.

The way the crime scene has been described from what we have gotten is an absolute bloody mess which indicates an unsophisticated person in a rage. What I suspect happened was he entered the home through the sliding door and was at least somewhat familiar with the residence and probably had been there before. He went looking in bedrooms for his target and came across EC/XK who presumably were sleeping in the same bed together since they were dating.

Perhaps they rustled awake but he now knows they at least could possibly identify him and has to silence them. The wounds we've heard described by the ME and with LE's latest release indicate a number of wild hacks in quick succession. Basically keep stabbing both of them until they stop moving - nothing really planned about it. Just get it done.

He then goes upstairs and finds MM and KG - one of which is his target. Since they are both there, they both have to be silenced and hacks both of them in a rage then likely realizes he's been in the house for a while and neets to get out. Since the other two roommates were in locked bedrooms and didn't come out, perhaps the killer in his rage forgot there were two others or thought they weren't home. Either way, they can't identify him so he exits.

Yes!

 

[Warwick7]

Since police said it was the bloodiest crime scene they’d ever seen, how does the killer just walk out of the house without leaving any evidence? I’d presume there’d be some bloody footprints, blood droplets, etc. but police are making it sound like they have nothing. You’d have quite a bit of blood on your clothing after stabbing 4 individuals multiple times, and would have been forced to climb a flight of stairs at least once since victims were on different floors, plenty of opportunities to leave behind evidence. not to mention does this blood covered individual just walk out the front door and walk home blood soaked?

It could be that they "want" to make it sound like they have nothing.

 

[AngTxGal]

I agree with the first part on advantages of using a gun but in my experience guns sometimes jam. But if it is someone really angry, and they want to release their rage and would choose a knife.

If the suspect came thru the sliding door, there should be fingerprints unless he/she was wearing gloves.

Over 100 law people involved. Not counting the DNA processors.

IMO They probably did not know there was a dog in the house.

We know they were killed with a knife, we do not know if a gun was used to control them prior to killing. It is possible that the perp had both gun and knife.

Yes a gun would be ‘easier’ but also potentially loud, and distant.
A knife is more challenging, quiet, and personal.

To me the choice to use not only a knife, but to bring their own combat style knife, and not cut throats says much about the murderer.
Pics of the dog show a labradoodle, I’ve never met one that was any type of guard dog.

Prayers for the families, friends, school, and community- this type of murder changes everything

 

[One Dog]

The timeframe of between 3-4 AM of the murders matches the calls happening before then. In fact, it lines up pretty perfectly. I still think they called him so many times because they were still buzzing from being at the bar, being out, etc. and either were bored and couldn't sleep or wanted to mess with him. Like haha, we're still up and now you are, etc. Drunk kids do that and yes, I speak from personal experience.

I still don't really believe there was anything alarming them to cause them to call him. If so, I truly believe they would've called 911 at least after the second or third try.

Maybe J was the one that gave them a ride home and one of the girls left something in his car (credit card, purse, keys, etc) and they were trying to reach him to get it back, especially if he was a student going home the next day.

 

[layer]

Ted Williams on Fox News, standing in front of the crime scene, just reported "It is believed the two survivors were on the top floor..."

 

[BigTex]

I felt the need to comment on the knife they have showed a bit because possibly speaking to local dealers may not give any clues. I have 2 ka-bars. I’ve had them for years, with the emblem and sheath on them and everything. And I ordered them directly from ka bar and through the mail, they came really quickly and if I remember correctly they used UPS. I hope that’s an avenue they are exploring because it’s really easy to buy online and there isn’t any approval process or like with ammo, any ffl tracking.
I can totally understand how the knife can be used in this capacity by just holding it, it holds comfortably and stable. The hilt is very slightly bent and that will prevent a reasonable amount of slippage, definitely not in all circumstances like this one though. The handle has groves in it for grip too. I have not used it violently but I don’t think it would be an issue for me, especially with minimal knife combat skills and I think it would be a great weapon to have in a situation where I needed to defend myself. The edge is very sharp and it holds well. These knives are well made and I actually feel safe with it tbh. I’ll be honest, mine is for protection and I will carry it if I go in the woods too because i see it as a decent survival knife if need be.
Back in the military it was kind of a status symbol to have a ka bar. A lot of the guys had them and basically just strapped to their legs and never used. I cringe to think this knife was used in these horrible murders.

I own a lot of knives including several varieties of Ka-bar. Buying a knife is simplistic in most states (not familiar with Idaho but assuming same as anywhere else I’ve seen) and doesn’t require anything other than money. I highly suspect that the comment by law enforcement isn’t actually about a name brand kabar but likely a Bowie knife style of blade. i would hazard a guess that they mean a 4+ inch fixed blade one side sharp. The only think that would make me think they know the exact brand is if the sheath was dropped or something.

 

[SuziQ]

The diagram of the house, created by a WSer in the last thread based on the crude drawing, was very helpful.If the killer entered through the sliding glass doors, and Xana’s bedroom was near the stairs that went to floor 3, he could have headed straight up the stairs to M&K, or stopped first at the bedroom right next to the stairs. The way to the lower level would have required him to cross into the living room and go down a separate set of stairs. The layout and the entry point could have kept him in essentially half of the house. I’d like to know if any evidence was found in the living room, or if it he ever entered it.

I found it interesting that the bedrooms are at opposite ends of the house. A little more distance for the perp to cross in the dark with closed doors. Imo.

 

[ExitMusic]

What are your thoughts on mistaken identity? There has been posts speculating drugs or gangs because of the severity of the killings, however I agree with most that I don’t think they were at all involved in any of those lifestyle choices. Could the perp have gotten the wrong house? MOO

 

[otto]

In this photo, we see one of the girls wearing an oversized black coat, one that seems to be too large for her. I'm curious whose coat she was wearing. 45 minutes after they arrive home, they phoned someone 10 times. Whose coat is it? Did they borrow it and leave something in the pockets? Did they eventually speak with the person they phone? Did they text that person at any time between the phone calls?


"Two female Idaho students among the four killed in a quadruple homicide near the University of Idaho on November 13 had made ten desperate calls to a mystery man called 'Jack' collectively.
...

Kaylee's sister, Alivea Goncalvez, told Inside Edition that her sibling and Madison had started making calls to Jack, who she described to be a 'young man,' at about half past two on the morning of the brutal massacre."



DailyMail

Footage from the Food Truck (starts at 3:43:01)

 

[r3d-ros3]

I think a knife was probably used for a few reasons: one, the killer's signature (or signature in the making). The weapon used, if revealed, contributes to attitudes about the crime that might help the murderer self aggrandize, so to speak, if they are following the case. It may also have been all they had available - even in a state where guns are legal, there are barriers to owning them in many cases.

More practically, though, it's very possible the killer was relying on the fact that the bodies would not be discovered for several hours after the murders. Maybe to get away, or maybe in order to establish an alibi, they counted on the gap between the crime and discovery. 4 gunshots (at least), even with a silencer, would have certainly drawn attention. In another thread, someone mentioned that there was a football game last weekend and the hotels were booked. If it was an out of town, opportunistic killer, they might have been checked out of their hotel and on the road before the bodies were ever found. JMO. Although it seems likely, from a few sources, that Kaylee might have had a stalker, I still lean towards a random crime and perhaps unknown assailant. Many have posted in this thread and the previous of other examples of random homicides by stabbing, so while it's less likely than a known (to the victims) murderer, it's certainly possible.