ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #4

[catewac]

"This is a gruesome and heartbreaking tragedy," Uber communications manager Navideh Forghani told Fox News Digital when asked whether Uber provided a ride to Mogen and Goncalvez. "It looks like Moscow police update the release to say a ‘private party.’ We have no record of the victims ordering a trip."

Idaho murders: 'Private party' drove 2 victims home, police now say

Idhao police say a 'private party' drove homicide victims Madison Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves home the morning they were murdered after initially saying they Ubered.

www.foxnews.com

I have been wondering if the girls got into a car thinking it was uber and perhaps the driver came back later after seeing an opportunity. Remember Samantha Josephson? Student killed after taking car she mistook for Uber Although, it could be they got a ride from someone they knew and it is unrelated to the crime and the police are just keeping that detail private.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Question: Where did the 1:45 time , for all of them getting to the house, come from??
.......and how did the two young women leave the food area at 1:40 and get home at 1:45?

 

[x_files]

Entrance?
My front door has a code to enter. Rental properties often have such door locks as you can reset them, cheaper than changing locks between renters.
That would imply it was someone they knew- if they entered the front door using the code.

Also Sliding patio doors are not terribly secure, we always kept a wooden stick in the track.
If the dog was found outside, they could have been interrupted while letting the dog out when they returned home?

If it is an obvious connected perp it has been long enough, they should Be focusing in on them. In my opinion this may be crime of opportunity, unrelated or unknown to them

That's scary anyone could have shared the code, or an ex-bf/friend/roommate could still have access to it.

 

[Hippiechic]

I'm sorry but does anyone have the article of which floors they were found on? I keep seeing the 2 surviving girls on the 1st floor also seen them on the 3rd. I thought the killings happened on the 2nd and 3rd floor. thanks so much

 

[citizen_sleuth]

"This is a gruesome and heartbreaking tragedy," Uber communications manager Navideh Forghani told Fox News Digital when asked whether Uber provided a ride to Mogen and Goncalvez. "It looks like Moscow police update the release to say a ‘private party.’ We have no record of the victims ordering a trip."

Idaho murders: 'Private party' drove 2 victims home, police now say

Idhao police say a 'private party' drove homicide victims Madison Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves home the morning they were murdered after initially saying they Ubered.

www.foxnews.com

Unless K & M got a ride from a complete stranger or just happened to run into a friend who offered to drive them, I would assume it should be very easy for LE to identify and clear whoever drove them home based on phone records.

 

[Janitor101]

"REVEALED: Two female Idaho students among four killed phoned mystery man called 'Jack' ten times minutes before they were slaughtered - as detective reveals one had a stalker and two housemates locked themselves in rooms due to 'noisy party'

Kaylee Goncalvez, 21, Madison Mogen, 21, Ethan Chapin, 20, and Xana Kernodle, 20, were allegedly stabbed to death at their home near campus between 3am and 4am

Kaylee's sister, Alivea Goncalvez, has now revealed that her sibling and Madison had started making calls to a person named 'Jack' between the hours of 2.36am and 2.52am on the night of the massacre

Former LAPD detective Mark Fuhrman, who had notably worked on the 1994 murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman in the OJ Simpson murder case now lives in Idaho and says Kaylee had a stalker

Photos on social media posted by Kaylee show her with a young man named Jack, however it is unclear whether this is the same person she and Madison had been calling

County Coroner Cathy Mabbut described the killings as 'personal' - the victims were found in their beds"

Idaho murder victim's sister says mystery man called night of murder

Two female Idaho students among the four killed in a quadruple homicide near the University of Idaho on November 13 had made ten desperate calls to a mystery man called 'Jack' collectively.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If these stories regarding the two victims calling this alleged "Jack" are true, it makes me wonder whether the two were forced to make those calls by the perp. A connection maybe? Or was this just playful drunk dialing.

 

[SuziQ]

The sliding glass door is interesting. So many of us had a door like that on our home. If you were locked out, it was easy to take the glass door off the sliders, and get in. I remember doing it several times. Those older glass panel doors are a security joke.

You beat me to it! I just posted the same thing. I found out the hard way that newer sliding doors are made better. But the older doors, you lock yourself out, no problem getting back in through the slider.

 

[citizen_sleuth]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593991022245457920

 

[alsleuther]

Thoughts, this is all MOO

1. As has been stated, most Gen Z'ers sleep with their phone next to them (I have 3 Gen Z kids and can attest to this.) The 4 in the house had to be fully incapacitated. If I were stabbed and bleeding and I COULD reach my phone, I would dial 911. So, either the murderer moved their phones or they stayed with each person long enough to make sure they were fully dead before moving on. This also makes me wonder if we are looking at more than 1 killer.

2. I am guessing the roommates who survived only survived because their doors were locked. The killer or killers knew that trying to get into the locked rooms would wake the girls and possibly tip them off. They were counting on the element of surprise and the girls being asleep.

3. I believe the UBER driver or whoever brought them home was involved only because the police haven't heard from this person. It is a small town, this is a massive story, if I had been the driver, I would immediately go to the police unless I had something to hide.

4. There is some significance to the phone calls, I first thought the girls were looking for help, but why not call 911? Maybe it was just two intoxicated college girls calling a boyfriend, but I agree, kids this age dont call, they text. I wonder how many texts they sent Jack and what the contents were. It makes me wonder if whoever killed them was looking for Jack and ordered the girls to make the calls. Phoning someone at 3am is VERY odd and only done in emergencies in my opinion.

THOUGHTS?

I find your post very interesting and reminds me of a story my friend told me years ago. She is a County judge and would have been mid 30s at the time on a girls trip out to Napa Valley with several friends.

They used Uber to go to different wineries and took an UBER on the way home to their rented house, VRBO, not super close to other housing.
Their driver was a young guy, really weird and was saying inappropriate things on the drive home late at night and then put his hand on my friend's thigh, in the passenger seat.

She's very assertive, flipped his hand away and said something to him that he didn't like. So all the women get dropped off at the house late at night and stay up quite a bit longer just chatting and drinking wine in the den area, when all of a sudden they hear someone trying to OPEN THE FRONT DOOR. They can see out the window that the UBER driver had returned an hour later after dropping them off.

A roomful of women started screaming at him through the door and they watched him run back to his car and drive off. A room full of very smart, professional adult women were either screaming or calling their husbands.
It wasn't until after the guy ran off, someone called 911, police came out, they filed a report, etc. Then they also reported it to UBER, but I don't think they ever really followed up on anything. They flew back home the next day and never heard anything else about it.
So just interesting to think that maybe college girls might have called Jack, instead of 911, when they thought something was amiss?

 

[upz12]

I saw this video yesterday during an interview on the Idaho murders which is really worth a watch. Apparently, this woman is a threat assessment psychologist who offers some information on the type killer LE is looking for. Threat assessment psychologist speaks on Moscow murders - KXLY

That threat assessment reminds me of Israel Keyes:

Israel Keyes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SuziQ]

I'm curious whether the girls got a ride home with an Uber driver who has been located, or whether they got a ride with a private party who has not been located.


"At approximately 1:40 a.m., Kaylee and Madison were seen on video at a local food vendor called the “Grub Truck” at 318 S. Main Street and used Uber from downtown to arrive at their 1122 King Road residence at 1:45 a.m."

Nov 18
Press Release

"Alivia found the potentially crucial video of her sister and Mogen at a food truck just hours before they were murdered. She also tracked down their Uber driver."

Nov 18
InsideEdition

"Police in Idaho are hunting for the person who gave two of the four murdered students a ride home shortly before they were killed, as they announced they had ruled out as suspects the students' housemates and a man seen loitering behind them at a food truck.
...

'Through further investigation, MPD learned Kaylee and Madison used a private party for a ride home from Grub Truck at approximately 1:40 a.m,' police said."

Nov 19
DailyMail

Or a ride with who they thought was an Uber. Imo.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Question : Where did the 1:45 arrival home of all four students come from?
.....and If the young women left the food area at 1:45

Here's what we know -- and don't know -- about the killings of 4 University of Idaho students as a suspect has yet to be identified | CNN
<snipped & BBM>
The four students – Ethan Chapin, 20; Kaylee Goncalves, 21; Xana Kernodle, 20; and Madison Mogen, 21 – were found Sunday stabbed to death on the second and third floors of the home in Moscow, Idaho, according to authorities.

Police revealed the four victims were “likely asleep” before the attack began during the early morning hours Sunday and each was stabbed multiple times. The attacks were not reported to authorities until around noon that day, police have said.

Moscow police also pointed out Friday that the victims were not “tied and gagged” during the attack. The victims’ autopsies did not find signs of sexual assault, Mabbutt said.

View attachment 380938

Question : How were these times verified? E and X were home the same time (1:45) as K and M?

It says K and M left the food truck at 1:40 and 5 minutes latter were home?

 

[mrsdue]

I find your post very interesting and reminds me of a story my friend told me years ago. She is a County judge and would have been mid 30s at the time on a girls trip out to Napa Valley with several friends.

They used Uber to go to different wineries and took an UBER on the way home to their rented house, VRBO, not super close to other housing.
Their driver was a young guy, really weird and was saying inappropriate things on the drive home late at night and then put his hand on my friend's thigh, in the passenger seat.

She's very assertive, flipped his hand away and said something to him that he didn't like. So all the women get dropped off at the house late at night and stay up quite a bit longer just chatting and drinking wine in the den area, when all of a sudden they hear someone trying to OPEN THE FRONT DOOR. They can see out the window that the UBER driver had returned an hour later after dropping them off.

A roomful of women started screaming at him through the door and they watched him run back to his car and drive off. A room full of very smart, professional adult women were either screaming or calling their husbands.
It wasn't until after the guy ran off, someone called 911, police came out, they filed a report, etc. Then they also reported it to UBER, but I don't think they ever really followed up on anything. They flew back home the next day and never heard anything else about it.
So just interesting to think that maybe college girls might have called Jack, instead of 911, when they thought something was amiss?

I thought about this, they hear something downstairs (or upstairs) which alarms them, not enough to dial 911, but enough to huddle together and call a man who they know to put them at ease. By the time they realize it is a real threat, it's too late to dial 911? MOO

 

[One Dog]

If Ethan and Xana left the party at 9/10, maybe they went to The Corner Club and met up with Caylee and Madison? Could Caylee and Madison have texted them from the food truck asking them to pick them up and take them home? It seems now that the Uber is incorrect, and a private party drove the girls home.

Didn't Kaylee's sister look at a neighbor's camera and confirmed they got home by a driver (Uber or maybe she thought it was Uber)? Someone would be able to identify X or E's car, if they took them home.
Side note: I am not accusing the driver at all, but I know an Uber driver that keeps a big knife in his car for protection in case he gets attacked/robbed by a passenger.

 

[Blue_Painting]

Question : Where did the 1:45 arrival home of all four students come from?
.....and If the young women left the food area at 1:45

Question : How were these times verified? E and X were home the same time (1:45) as K and M?

It says K and M left the food truck at 1:40 and 5 minutes latter were home?

A reporter did the drive and said it took her 2 to 3 minutes.

 

[late1]

I'm a criminal profiling junkie from way back. In order to weed out suspects, one must study the behavior at the crime scene in order to narrow down the suspect list. In this case, you have a perpetrator with a premeditated plan who brought along his Rambo-style knife to a crime scene. Could this mean he has a military background or experience as a police or security officer? I bet one thing is certain...he is a gun and knife enthusiast with an obsession for tactical maneuvers and thinks he is the smartest person in the room wherever he goes. Just some thoughts.

Yes, possibly a hunter as well.

No offense, but IMO this sounds more like an imaginative character in a book or movie than a profile. In real life, 99.999...% of gun and knife enthusiasts and hunters are not criminals. They like guns and knives and hunting, and probably people! That is a big haystack in which to look for a small needle.

IMO, and lots of discussion about this in the previous thread, the wounds do not seem consistent with any kind of military or combat training. Stabbing a sleeping person in the torso speaks much more as a novice or angry person.

IMO and many great posts on this last night: Hunters and fishers use knives very differently, delicately, precisely to dress and clean their game. Totally different.

Edit to add: How do you know the perp brought the knife?

 

[Fritzy]

Cyclist with knife
Wasn't there another incident like this in the Moscow area in September? I thought I recalled reading about a guy in all black on a mountain bike with a knife.

 

[x_files]

Stabbing is more personal or didn't own a gun? Grabbed the knife at the house? A crime of passion/rage and grabbed it from the kitchen?
Not premediated murder, in advance for days, weeks or months?

 

[x_files]

A bloody crime scene with multiple victims-there got to be plenty of DNA. Hopefully the killer left some.

The killer had to have cut his own hand during the murders.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

I saw this video yesterday during an interview on the Idaho murders which is really worth a watch. Apparently, this woman is a threat assessment psychologist who offers some information on the type killer LE is looking for. Threat assessment psychologist speaks on Moscow murders - KXLY

JMO.
Thank you for posting this, @Janitor101

From the article (and video) linked above:

“One of the things they’re going to be looking for, with the combat knife they’re looking for, one of the things we know from targeted attacks is that sometimes the individuals who carry them out will get to a point where they dress as what we in the field call a pseudo commander. They have tactical gear that really shows a commitment to carrying this out,” Dr. Randazzo explained.

I suspect this was planned and a bloody scene was an intentional part of the plan. The killer also would have planned to minimize leaving any DNA evidence — that does NOT mean he would have succeeded; simply that he took precautions like protective gloves and gear (the “tactical gear” referenced in the video).

He had some acquaintance(s) with the victims, IMO. I dislike the term “crime of passion” because it centers a crime on the killer’s perspective and implies a relationship. The “passion” can very well be in one direction only.

That said, the killer (like Bundy) may have been trolling for a victim type vs an individual. If so, IMO the killer still had an “ops plan” for the attacks that included exiting the scene and disposing of direct evidence.

Hopefully he’s not as smart as he thinks he is. I think LE will unravel this.

All JMO.