ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 5

[heed101]

Hopefully they will find perp soon. DNA, cell phone tower, and surveillance evidence.

 

[Angelcat13]

No disparaging. But she's a nurse, not a medical examiner. Probably haven't a big need for MD forensic pathologists in the area.

Nurses can be Forensic Nurse Death Investigators. They are educated and trained specifically for this and are recognized by the American Academy of Forensic Sciences.

Before I left nursing, I became very interested in this aspect of nursing, became a member of the International Association of Forensic Nurses (IAFN) and did an internship in a major metropolitan Medical Examiners Office. This was over 20 years ago and this aspect of nursing has continued to grow and gain acceptance in the medico-legal realm.

I encourage everyone to learn more about this field instead of viewing these highly educated and trained professionals as being “just a nurse”. They are SOOOO much more!

Death Investigator – IAFN

www.forensicnurses.org

 

[Tippy Lynn]

The more that comes out on this I think the more the stranger/stalker case becomes feasible.

I’d question at this stage being the fact all of these individuals digital footprints will have been heavily scrutinised that there is any sign of ongoing conflict, animosity etc… some kind of back story that might at least mean the police have a Lead or POI of that explanation.

Likewise I don’t believe it was a spur of the moment crime of passion. If it had been a kitchen knife yes, you could see how an argument could escalate there but a combat knife is someone who turned up already equipped to kill.

I don’t believe it’s a crime of opportunity as it doesn’t tick any boxes. The two individuals we know about who could have committed one have been ruled out and the combat knife, multiple victims, hatred it was carried out with don’t suggest it. Plus no apparent sign of a sexual assault motive.

So to me there are two potentials. Something happened between 1.45 and 2.30. Aaltercation in the house with someone they knew. They have left, equipped and come back and committed the crime after 3 AM. I think the girls were almost certainly together until then as the call logs (if accurate) suggest they were calling almost to the minute from each other’s phones.

But I’m not convinced. Would a major argument/fight not have bought up the other housemates. Depending how bad it was would they not have called the police (if threats were issued), would they have not have had adrenaline going and not been potentially asleep around 3, how did the person get back in the house (surely after that all doors would be locked), and ultimately would one single argument be enough to lead someone to leave, arm with a combat knife, and come back and cause thr level of carnage. If they had been harbouring a deep level of hatred would there not be evidence of that through digital footprints.

The only alternative to that is, to me stranger/stalker, where nothing was untoward when they went to bed but something happened between 3/6 (which is the time the police are now giving) when they were killed in their beds.

The fact the police haven’t mentioned 1.45-3 as a time of interest for CcTv etc also makes me think they don’t believe a fight in the house during that time and someone coming back armed after to kill is a potential.

And again I can’t get the thought someone they knew would just turn up with a weapon intent to kill unless the police would see the signs of animosity and conflict through a digital footprint

That's why this is so interesting to me. The location and time of this incident stands out. Band Field is extremely close to the home and the time is 3:01 am.

MPD Press Log 11/13/2022

www.ci.moscow.id.us

22-M09896 Alcohol Offense
Incident Address: TAYLOR AVE; Band Field
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 03:01
Cad Comments:
Officer requested a case. Report taken.

 

[Kittybunny]

Yes, but so far as I've seen, police only say that the 911 call "came from a phone belonging to one of the two surviving roommates." Does anyone know, has it been confirmed whether or not one of the surviving roommates made the call, or someone else did?

No clarity either way that I have seen.

 

[Emanze]

It's been a week. Like a lot of us I have gone down multiple google rabbit holes researching this case. And a theme keeps coming up. I can't recall a case where there are so many people close to the crime talking so freely to the media. The mother of a boyfriend, the victims families, sister, parents, LE, the mayor, the coroner, all on TV/print, sometimes seemingly contradicting one another. It is very worrisome for those who want justice. Loose lips sink ships, etc.

Unfortunately, I think this dreadful crime is going to become a case study why LE, in particular, need to work in strict concert with another and have one PIO issue statements.

And I say this with all the respect, that loved ones of the victims should also take exquisite care of the information they share. They are so vulnerable at this time, not always making the best decisions in the pursuit of justice.

It's troubling the amount of information floating out there for public consumption while a suspect(s) still remains at large. And I absolutely see the irony of saying this while sleuthing. Honestly, I wish I knew less at this point. MOO/IMO.

 

[spitzer]

I don't think the calls will have anything to do with it either. I think both girls were probably still together at that point and after KG called him a few times and he didn't answer she likely tried from MM's phone to see if he would answer her instead. Think it will turn out to be a typical case of drunk dialing.

Considering Madison would have known the guy too it makes sense to say “oh [my ex] is ignoring my phone, let’s try yours,”

 

[sleepysleuth]

I just can’t fathom a known individual with a personal vendetta against one of the girls killing three other people as collateral damage. The stalker or budding serial killer angles are the only theories I can make any sense of here.

STALKER: I think the stalker makes sense because he could have just entered two bedrooms before finding his intended target in the third bedroom. Once he killed his intended target, he left, sparing the life of the other two.

BUDDING SERIAL KILLER: I think the budding serial killer theory makes sense because he would be an individual with the mission of killing just to kill - for gratification. He could have been spooked off the scene or injured during one of the killings and had to leave.

911 CALL: Regarding the 911 call, I don’t find it suspicious because I could see one of the surviving roommates being too shocked, too scared or too upset to make the call. I can’t imagine what it must be like to come across a scene like that.

CALLS TO THE EX: Has it been confirmed where the dog was? Is there any chance that Kaylee was searching for the dog and called her ex to see if he had taken the dog from the home? Perhaps if the perp had removed the dog at some point in the night? I don’t know if this makes sense, but right now I think those calls were either related to the dog or just Kaylee reaching out to the ex because she missed him.

THE BARSTOOLS IN FRONT OF THE SLIDERS: someone posted a picture a few pages back of barstools blocking the door. Was this confirmed to be the state of that door after the murders? I thought the working theory was that the perp entered the home through the sliders. Would this be possible with the barstools blocking the door? Any chance the perp could have placed those there like that? How difficult would it have been to enter the home through the third floor balcony sliders instead?


Sorry lots of saved up random thoughts here -
ALL JMO/IMO

 

[spitzer]

That's why this is so interesting to me. The location and time of this incident stands out. Band Field is extremely close to the home and the time is 3:01 am.

MPD Press Log 11/13/2022

www.ci.moscow.id.us

22-M09896 Alcohol Offense
Incident Address: TAYLOR AVE; Band Field
MOSCOW ID 83843
Disposition: ACT
Time Reported: 03:01
Cad Comments:
Officer requested a case. Report taken.

Isn’t the house in the main student area of the town? Kind of sounds like an office caught a 20 year old with a beer or someone drinking in public (I’m British so not 100% on American alcohol laws)

 

[ShadyLady]

Good theory. And more plausible then a lot of the insane theories going around.

One thing I’ve thought about is that if the killer knew them enough to have hung out there before, his phone is likely to have been connected to their Wi-Fi. The router data will show exactly which devices were connected between 3-5am.

Dont you need a password to connect to a wiki? Technology has changed on me.

I am so confused. Only wiki I use for my cell is in my home, or AT&T service...what am I missing?

 

[spitzer]

I think if the girls had been scared by unknown noises they would have called Xana or one or their downstairs housemates, not the guy who doesn’t even live with them

 

[hopewell]

Just putting this here . Daily mail report of dog skinned like deer in Moscow late October. Seems fb as source.

Four Idaho students murdered may have been too shocked to scream

Moscow police believe victims Kaylee Goncalvez, 21, Madison Mogen, 21, Ethan Chapin, 20, and Xana Kernodle, 20, were stabbed to death at their home near campus between 3am and 4am.

www.dailymail.co.uk

In my opinion this post, coupled with the fact that there are two FBI BAU teams on site (amongst many others), and LE saying from the onset that it was a particularly upsetting crime scene, leads me to feel that we are perhaps dealing with a pathological predator. I imagine the reason for calling in the BAU teams is that there was something at the scene that was very disturbing, perhaps ritualistic.

Buffalo Bill?

 

[cmg28]

Long time visitor, but first time poster. All MOO, ofc. And maybe this has been mentioned, but the phone calls to J were all before 3 AM, correct? But per the police statement released last night, they are requesting digital footage from between 3-6 AM. So, are they suggesting the suspect didn’t get to the house prior to everyone getting home? If they think the murders happened any time before 3 AM or the suspect was in the home waiting then they would have made that window wider to account for the travel(?) there and into the house. So, is 3-6 AM the window of entry and departure? Perhaps then the phone calls to J were just them calling him and it’s so coincidence? Or perhaps they are already aware of the suspects entry but want to know where they ended up? From what I gathered it was a busy weekend with a lot of college-related events. A lot of people coming and going. Just thinking out loud…

 

[Chelly]

The "first floor" is not visible from the other side of the house. If you live/pass by/ see the girls from THAT side of the home, you may not even know there is a 'first floor' MOO

Are there separate entrances to 2nd and 3rd Floor?

 

[cuecard]

Considering Madison would have known the guy too it makes sense to say “oh [my ex] is ignoring my phone, let’s try yours,”

Yeah, I agree. I don't think find the calls all that strange, I'll be surprised if they turn out to be anything more substantial.

 

[NuttMegg]

Someone prior to me made the comment that hunters tend to be humane folk who don't thrill kill.

Also, I mean to me, it isn't rocket science to know the general area of the human heart. I'm guessing stabbing someone in the heart would have a profound effect. Especially more than once.

JMO

well I wasn't insinuating that he thrill killed. I'm speaking more of the feelings of a hunter/true outdoorsman toward their gear, and that throwing the weapon in a dumpster does not jibe with a cool headed savvy killer. Re dissing LE for not securing near by dumpsters. I doubt that a guy that savvy would do something so amateurish.

Also, just my opinion, I don't think he had time to aim for the heart and stab several times, why wouldn't the other roommate have reacted? He knew what he was doing. What if the girls were sleeping on their stomachs, and he had to kill both as quickly as possible. A novice would not know where to stab in the back, imo. I was thinking about this as I lay face down last night, with several covers on. How would a person not familiar with anatomy, through butchering game, know exactly where to attack, given that he had to do it efficiently and quickly.

if we knew the position of the bodies.......

BTW....I hunted and butchered deer for 20 years. Big difference how a novice butchers compared to a pro.

 

[NervousNellie]

Bringing this forward. Let’s keep this thread open, please.

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[cuecard]

It's been a week. Like a lot of us I have gone down multiple google rabbit holes researching this case. And a theme keeps coming up. I can't recall a case where there are so many people close to the crime talking so freely to the media. The mother of a boyfriend, the victims families, sister, parents, LE, the mayor, the coroner, all on TV/print, sometimes seemingly contradicting one another. It is very worrisome for those who want justice. Loose lips sink ships, etc.

Unfortunately, I think this dreadful crime is going to become a case study why LE, in particular, need to work in strict concert with another and have one PIO issue statements.

And I say this with all the respect, that loved ones of the victims should also take exquisite care of the information they share. They are so vulnerable at this time, not always making the best decisions in the pursuit of justice.

It's troubling the amount of information floating out there for public consumption while a suspect(s) still remains at large. And I absolutely see the irony of saying this while sleuthing. Honestly, I wish I knew less at this point. MOO/IMO.

Yeah, I find myself agreeing. I don't want to be that person but I do think there has to be a better strategy communication wise going forward. My heart goes out to the families of all involved and I can't imagine the anguish and frustration they must currently feel but there are likely very good reasons why LE has not told them/shared everything that they have.

 

[BigTex]

Dont you need a password to connect to a wiki? Technology has changed on me.

I am so confused. Only wiki I use for my cell is in my home, or AT&T service...what am I missing?

Yes but if the perp had it stored on the phone (likely) then it would auto connect. The issue is how long the logs remain (reboot clears most and buffer wrapping eats the rest). This is something that would take time to dig into unless the device was preserved at the time of the murder I think. Source: me - retired network techie guy but NOT saying I am right just that would be my immediate concern.

If you think along these lines, in a small town especially (even if uni town) they could mine the data off the local towers and look for any phones that follow tower to tower as the victims. This would work if they have enough towers to isolate the traffic (5g is microcell but unsure of deployment in Moscow ID). I assume they have the victims phones which should give them location data throughout the night I would suspect once they decode it.

Just a thought,
BigTex

 

[Blue_Painting]

I wonder if Kaylee visiting for the weekend has some importance? Could her presence have angered someone?

 

[PingTheRouter]

in large stabbings with many wounds across many victims, you have a very good chance the attacker(s) slipped while using the knife and cut themselves probably a number of times while in the frenzied state, possibly not even knowing they had been injured due to the adrenaline and the mental focus on the murders at the time

so hoping they can separate or at least test those samples and rule out the contributors which might at least get them a step closer to finding out who did this