ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 5

[Uncle Sonny]

This is like watching an episode of criminal minds. Remember that TV show

 

[MeadowMuffin]

Are there any Idaho locals on this thread? Would an arrestee be booked into the Latah County jail?

Just google latah county jail roster, it should be the first thing up. I did this early on and posted the name of the only inmate arrested that morning, and my post was deleted. Mea culpa. Can't sleuth people who aren't POI. But there isn't much to see there right now. Once someone is arrested, it should be a busy site.

 

[billy0312]

This is like watching an episode of criminal minds. Remember that TV show

They are actually starting it again on Paramount Plus with some of the same people.

 

[ShadyLady]

Ok, another confusing thing to me:

Were there "calls", or "texts" to J??

If calls, were there VMs left. If not why are people saying that calls were about a dog, or to please call....???

How would anyone know why K or M were trying to contact J?

 

[elmomom]

My current theory is that, after returning home, the four victims were together for a time in the common area when the Killer stopped by. They let him in thtough the sliders. He was well inown to them…a boyfriend, ex-boyfriend, frat brother, co-worker. A nasty argument ensued…loud enough for the survivors to be aware, but not clear enough to discern the problem. This makes them important witnesses,

My guess is that, although the killer’s ‘issue’ is with one of the victims… the four victims were all on the same ‘side’ of this argument…and the Killer therefore became enraged at all four of them. They tell him to leave and he does, through the sliders again.

Now they go to their respective rooms. I do think the girls might have been sharing a room, because Kaylee might have already moved her stuff out and was just up for the weekend. After this confrontation, the girls try to call J the Ex.…either to tell him about the fight, get his advice, or to smooth things over if he was the one they were arguing with. My guess is he has a rock solid alibi from the affectionate way the sister refers to him. Anyway…as we know, the girls had no luck with those calls.

The Killer…infuriated goes home, gets the knife, and lets himself back in through the sliders. Due to the excitement of the confrontation, no one remembers to lock it again. He kills the 4 who he is still raging at…has no interest in the un-involved roommates downstairs. This coincides with the “targeted” remark by LE and why they felt initially that no one else was at risk. In other words, this was not a stranger thrill killing.

Those surviving roommates sleep in. A friend comes by…through their lower door. One of them goes upstairs, sees something, and they all panic and the visitor uses the first phone they grab. They are outside the house when LE comes.

Pretty much my scenario as well, which I posted last night.. somewhere. Anyhow, certainly not the majority opinion, everyone seems to want to believe that Kaylee was the main target.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

This is true but with such a high volume of blood from the victims, finding perp blood could be a crapshoot.

I think since perp used a knife they would look carefully at cast-off, as if perp cut himself, his blood would be cast off, too. Also, light switch, doorknob, things he would have touched. If there are any round droplets, it could be drips from his own wounds, if any. There will be so much DNA to test, however, my opinion is it'll take awhile to get all results back.

 

[wary]

So it is confirmed that the two surviving women were on the first floor? That makes it even more weird as to why the killer decided to ignore them. This looks more and more like a targeted killing by someone who knew the victims to me.

Their being on the first floor doesn’t make it seem more weird that they weren’t attacked, to me, anyway.

We don’t know yet how the killer came in. Especially if he came in the ‘second floor ground floor entrance,’ he might have just never gone downstairs. (I’m very familiar with hillside homes.)

 

[Finders_Keepers]

People seem to be viewing the victims as two separate pairs. With the assumption that it was the girls who were targeted and Ethan and Xena were somehow involved due to stumbling upon the perpetrator or being witnesses.

There is another possibility here not being discussed which is that one of the girls and Xena apparently worked together, and had done for a number of years at the same place. You would assume therefore that they are pretty close but that also they have their own group of friends, colleagues, customers etc… through their work.

I can’t get over the polices initially view this was a targeted attack. Whilst they didn’t have all the experts now working the case When they made that suggestion there had been experienced officers already working 24:7 on the case for days and knowing every intimate detail of the crime scene. I believe they still probably think it’s a targeted attack but have to cover all bases hence the more recent backtracking on risk to the community etc…

If so It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that it wasn’t the girls targeted, but perhaps for whatever reason one of them and Xena through something to do with their work connection. And it was actually the other two who were killed only due to being at the house that night.

I definitely think the fact that two of them worked together and police initially felt it was targeted would mean that potential line of enquiry would be getting discussed more.

 

[elmomom]

That chain of events did certainly look like a very plausible one but the key issue for me is the police and LE have not asked for any CCTV or information from the time period 1.45-3. Why?

Th are focusing and making public appeals for what happened between 3-6.

The fight and perpetrator returning to kill all happening after 3 AM is more unlikely imho. One because then we have to assume that their desperate attempts to contact J between 2.30-3 were related to something totally unrelated (possible) but then more far fetched to me is that there is no evidence from the sister or LE that anyone was contacted after 3 AM. Which you would think it there was a major fight or incident surely at least one of the 4 would have texted or called someone they knew to highlight the drama.

So it’s a vicious circle. Hard to see it all unfolding after 3 AM being certainly the two girls didn’t contact anyone after that. But the only other time it could have occurred is between 1.45-3 and if the police had suspicions on that then surely they would also be making public appeals for any cctv, car sightings, anything suspicious etc… in that timeframe.

Other option is something similar to what you describe happened but for whatever reason the individual was already armed with the hunting knife when it happened. But then there is a difficulty there that they were killed in their sleep (at least some) which doesn’t suggest a fight and murder occurred at the same time on the evening.

Perhaps they already have cctv for the 1-3AM. I think the call for the 3-6a cctv is looking for escape routes to track down discarded evidence.

 

[happyday]

Is the press conference at 3pm pacific time?

 

[isabella88]

Is the press conference at 3pm pacific time?

Yes

 

[DizzyB]

I’m wondering about bloody footprints. If the killer were wearing booties, would he have to change them between floors and then remove and bag before leaving the house? Bloody shoe covers would leave a trail and tell part of the story, right?

 

[SkylarSid]

How did the blood flow on outside walls? Strange.

I don’t think we are exactly sure it is blood.

 

[mwwebsleuth]

just moo. I think the target was one or both of the 2 girls who had bedrooms on the 3rd floor. I think the person knew whose bedroom they wanted to go to. I'm thinking the target was the girl who was there for the weekend. They went into that bedroom and found both girls were sleeping in it so both were killed. Then on their way back downstairs they ran into E and then X and so as not to leave any witnesses they were stabbed too. All of the sudden they had just killed 4 people when it was intended to be only 1. They got the heck out of there before they ran into anyone else.
Whatever bedroom they were found in that was the intended target

 

[Emanze]

Ok, another confusing thing to me:

Were there "calls", or "texts" to J??

If calls, were there VMs left. If not why are people saying that calls were about a dog, or to please call....???

How would anyone know why K or M were trying to contact J?

They were unanswered phone calls, according to her sister. As to the other questions, I think it's
conjecture.

I can't tell if the link is hidden behind a paywall, if so, here's the info:

There were seven unanswered phone calls made from the phone of one of the victims, Ms. Goncalves, to her former longtime boyfriend in the early morning hours on Sunday, according to her older sister, Alivea Goncalves, based on phone logs she was able to download from the phone provider. The police said that Ms. Mogen had also made calls to the same number.

 

[Trouble1321075]

 

And that’s why I also wonder about the perp being totally intoxicated. Again, not all killers commit these crimes under the influence, but I really wonder about PCP or meth-induced psychosis, severe alcohol influence, etc. But who knows. Maybe not. Plenty of mass killers are 100 percent sober when they do things like this.

Lots of maybes. As I said before, imo everything is on the table from stranger to known and everything in between. I am not confident or even close to confident on any theory yet. Still collecting data.

I agree 100% with everything you said here.

At face value this crime seems so irrational that it makes me consider the possibility that it was somebody under the influence of some substance.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Is the press conference at 3pm pacific time?

3 PM PST
4 PM MST
5 PM CST
6 PM EST

 

[Tealgrove]

Because he wasn’t answering Kaylee.

My guess is the two girls were intoxicated. The calls start and he doesn’t answer. Maddie, being Kaylee’s BFF, and attached at the hip, would be known to J.

Maddie says, Let me try. Maybe he’ll answer me and so it goes.

ETA to add: MOO

Replying to my own post.

I also don’t think this was a call because they were scared especially when the ex didn’t live locally. Nope

I think this was silly drunk calling in the middle of the night to elicit some type of response from the ex. May have been completely innocent call (albeit inappropriate at that ungodly hour) but nothing nefarious or mean. She may have been trying to set up a meet on her way home. It might be the last time she would see him for quite some time as she was, by all appearances, moving on with her grown up life.

MOO

 

[CarolynV]

What if Kaylee called Jack because she was scared and needed help. He doesn't pick up, so her friend tries from her number to say, "this is serious, we really need help". Why they didn't call 911 or Mom or Dad, I have no idea.

 

[Zinn]

Ok, another confusing thing to me:

Were there "calls", or "texts" to J??

If calls, were there VMs left. If not why are people saying that calls were about a dog, or to please call....???

How would anyone know why K or M were trying to contact J?

One of Kaylee’s sisters revealed in an interview that Kaylee and Maddie collectively called J ten times between 2:26am and 2:52am. In a different interview on Fox, host asked Kaylee’s parents about these calls. Answer was not comprehensive but included Kaylee’s dad saying she said “We have a dog together” in the context of why he needed to respond to her, and included her mom saying Kaylee asked him to come over. Dad described this as one of Kaylee’s last messages and his wording sounded to me like he had probably heard it himself (though I don’t know for sure) because he emphasized certain words as if recalling her phrasing and indicated when something she said was at the end of a particular message. That last part is JMO. Not impossible he could have been referring to a text message and/or the info was relayed to him rather than hearing a message himself.