ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 5

[BeginnerSleuther]

What if you slash instead of stab? As a physician your insight is invaluable! I ironically had just posted images from an article on that. But your insight would be able to help clarify if that makes sense.

Slashing would be the same with a victim who can fight back. For example, say you're aiming for specific vessels in the neck. You can likely get them by slashing, but that's contingent on the victim not fighting or wiggling the moment the knife touches them (for instance, if they were tied up). If the victim is free to fight, it becomes much harder. If the victim is asleep, then you're counting on them being asleep on their back with their chin not tucked under to obstruct the knife. So in this case, that's unlikely, IMO. If their throats were slashed, the killer would have had to incapacitate them in some way, IMO.

 

[hooziewhutz]

No idea if this applies or will be helpful, but I spend a lot of time with college students, and not leaving a message (assuming this is the case), is consistent with my experience. Of course this is a generalization, but they tend not to use their phones for calling unless completely necessary, including leaving voicemails.

Also in terms of bedtimes (from other posts), 2:00 am is definitely an ungodly hour for me, but not for many college students, especially on a weekend.

All MOO of course.

His VM could have been full, also. (Sorry if been said!)

 

[Chelly]

I think whoever did this was familiar with the area. I feel they were worried about possible cameras across the street and up the street at the apartments. I think the entered and left from the back of the house that faces the wooded tree area. Easier to run and escape in his mind and easier to hide and watch house.

Is there an outside staircase to back entrance?

 

[Rosydecember]

maybe the profile of the perp would be someone who identifies as an incel?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

You look at what’s different, what recently happened that could have triggered this event?

And in that regard, from what we know at least, it all points to Kaylee as the main target. She recently had a very significant breakup. She got a new job and was moving on to a new life. She had gone home, returned for the weekend, and was not going to be there long. She showed up with an expensive, new (to her) vehicle that she wanted to show to everyone.

Note: in no way, shape or form am I casting “blame” or anything. I just think it’s important to note these facts

But that doesn't give the whole story. We know all that about Kaylee because her family has been very open. What about the others whose family hasn't told us as much. For example, I don't think we've heard anything from Maddie's family. What if she also had a recent breakup or what if she had a stalker or what if she was on the outs with her family? I've wondered about Maddie's family, honestly. They're the only ones I haven't seen anything from (if someone else has, please let me know). They may be just private people and they may be unwilling to divulge if Maddie had similar circumstances to Kaylee, which I understand and have to respect.

What if Ethan was part of a hazing incident and someone wanted revenge? What if there was a work-related dispute with Maddie and Xana at Mad Greek that we don't know about? What if someone was fired and that person blamed the girls for their firing? No evidence to support that, just my hypothetical to make the point that just because we haven't heard certain things doesn't mean they don't exist.

Bottom line, just because we know all the stuff we do about Kaylee doesn't mean similar circumstances don't apply to the others. It just means we haven't heard about it. I think it's still too early to determine the target.

MOO.

 

[NWguy22]

And NOT to cast aspersions or anything, especially given what Kaylee’s parents have said about this person, but I have some confusion about where the Jack they were calling lived. People have said he didn’t live there anymore but I think they are confusing him with Jake, Maddie’s “current” bf (as in he was not an ex boyfriend at the time of the murders).

 

[NWguy22]

But that doesn't give the whole story. We know all that about Kaylee because her family has been very open. What about the others whose family hasn't told us as much. For example, I don't think we've heard anything from Maddie's family. What if she also had a recent breakup or what if she had a stalker or what if she was on the outs with her family? I've wondered about Maddie's family, honestly. They're the only ones I haven't seen anything from (if someone else has, please let me know). They may be just private people and they may be unwilling to divulge if Maddie had similar circumstances to Kaylee, which I understand and have to respect.

What if Ethan was part of a hazing incident and someone wanted revenge? What if there was a work-related dispute with Maddie and Xana at Mad Greek that we don't know about? What if someone was fired and that person blamed the girls for their firing? No evidence to support that, just my hypothetical to make the point that just because we haven't heard certain things doesn't mean they don't exist.

Bottom line, just because we know all the stuff we do about Kaylee doesn't mean similar circumstances don't apply to the others. It just means we haven't heard about it. I think it's still too early to determine the target.

MOO.

I agree, that’s why I noted that it was based on what we know. Could well be many things about the other victims and their lives that we aren’t privy too

 

[Blue_Painting]

SO, it's been allll speculation that the calls were about a dog, or about anything since they left no voice mails....very very odd.

WHY not leave at least one message....urgent to get in touch with J....but no message left?? NO text??

Cant say where my mind is going, BUT THANK YOU for explaining!

Who leaves a voicemail in a moment of panic and desperation? moo

 

[Sundog]

Why would they be calling him if he was killing them? Also, it sounds to me like he has a pretty rock solid alibi based on what I’ve read.

Do you have a link for his alibi? I haven't seen it posted on here, but may have missed it. Thanks.

 

[flippyflappy]

An add on to the speculation about the phone calls...

Maybe Kaylee thought that Jack had blocked her for some reason and so she tried from M's phone to see if it would go through/he's pick up?

As a former college aged girl, I remember drunk dialing my exes or guys I was into late at night.

 

[NWguy22]

Sounds to me as though LE is trying to not destroy the life of a probably innocent person.

Then just say “the call came from a friend of one of the surviving roommates.” Not that hard. It’s strange they’re not. But it could certainly be nothing

 

[mickey2942]

I remember living in a house like this in college, everyone's room had a deadbolt on the door. So, if people are partying, you can go to your room, lock the door, go to sleep. I am guessing that the roommates alive were in their rooms, asleep, with doors locked. They were not the target.

My theory, someone came for the "target", she was sleeping with someone, and that person had to go too. Then, one of the others wakes up, goes to see what is going on, stabbed, and the other gal, gets stabbed too.

That is how it looks to me. I hope that this gets solved, and doesn't take 6 years or so...I hope there are some clues.

 

[Chelly]

Slashing would be the same with a victim who can fight back. For example, say you're aiming for specific vessels in the neck. You can likely get them by slashing, but that's contingent on the victim not fighting or wiggling the moment the knife touches them (for instance, if they were tied up). If the victim is free to fight, it becomes much harder. If the victim is asleep, then you're counting on them being asleep on their back with their chin not tucked under to obstruct the knife. So in this case, that's unlikely, IMO. If their throats were slashed, the killer would have had to incapacitate them in some way, IMO.

I am thinking killer has substantial upper body strength to deeply plunge knife into upper torsos and wrench it out at least four times. Seems like these acts required precision and good concentration and he came in prepared. Most likely he was dressed totally in black to camouflage appearance of blood on clothing.

 

[NWguy22]

Literally the only way the parents could know if the door were locked would be to watch her lock it on FaceTime or something.

Not true. Could have been told there was forced entry to her bedroom door, or perp came through a window, or perp was already in there lying in wait

 

[wildebeest]

View attachment 381283

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

Moscow police ‘working on tip’ about Hyundai Elantra in murder investigation

Update on Idaho college student murders and hyundai

www.independent.co.uk

''Slain Idaho students leave behind bright memories, big goals​

Ethan Chapin’s last day was spent with his siblings, dressed up and dancing.
Chapin — one of four University of Idaho students stabbed to death last weekend, the police still searching for a killer — was a triplet. His brother and sister also attend the scenic state school tucked away in the rolling hills of north-central Idaho.
“He was our our daughter Maizie’s date, and his brother was Maizie’s roommates date,” Chapin’s mother, Stacy Chapin, said in an interview Wednesday. The group was attending a dance hosted by Maizie’s sorority. “They all spent their last day together, all dressed up, and had a great time. We’re all thankful that they spent that time together.”
Ethan Chapin captured photos of the event on his phone, but the family has yet to see them. The device is being held by law enforcement as potential evidence in the homicide investigation.''

JMO.

I wanted to emphasize this from the article linked above by @dotr (RBBM):

“Ethan Chapin captured photos of the event on his phone, but the family has yet to see them. The device [phone] is being held by law enforcement as potential evidence in the homicide investigation.''

There are so many questions surrounding the phones, what phone contacts were made when and by/to whom, and why there weren’t any reported emergency calls by the victim that I thought it of interest that LE has at least EC’s phone.

Nicholas Bogel-Burroughs
@NickAtNews

The victims — 3 women roommates one of their boyfriends — were back at the house by about 2 a.m., the calls from Kaylee were between 2:26 and 2:52, and it's unclear when the murders happened. The first 911 call was at noon.
(no paywall)

Idaho Murders: What We Know

A man who was studying for a Ph.D. at a nearby university is charged in the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho undergraduates. Many questions remain.

www.nytimes.com

Also wanted to note that the NYT link above by @sds71 clarifies the call was made from the phone of a surviving roommate (does not state identity of caller) (RBBM):

“Investigators said they did not believe either [surviving roommate] was involved in the crime and suggested that they had possibly slept as their roommates were being killed. No one called 911 until just before noon on Sunday — many hours after the attack, which the authorities have said took place in the early morning hours. That call came from one of the surviving roommates’ cellphones.”

Regarding protecting the crime scene, I wonder if you or anyone else on here could shed any light as to why LE/et al went into the house (lots of them) in their own clothes and not hazmat gear? I've never seen this before (I'm in the UK). TIA

@Kaykedi I’m not sure which investigators you are referring to and when they entered the house. My understanding is that the initial LE response would have been for an unconscious person, so their priority would have been to reach that person and determine his/her status.

Subsequent photos and video do show investigators with Personal Protective Equipment (PPE), and the area being marked / taped off. The difference may be crime scene/forensic investigators vs first responders.

All JMO.

 

[1mtroyal]

I am waiting to see if anyone "lawyers up"

 

[uburoi1]

Police reveal key new detail in Idaho college murders 911 call as ‘private party’ ruled out as suspect​

Police have offered their latest update on the investigation into the murder of four University of Idaho students last weekend, though details like a suspect, murder weapon, or motive remain illusive.
Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin were believed to have been killed in the early morning hours of 13 November at an off-campus residence.
Moscow, Idaho police announced on Saturday that an anonymous “private party” drove Goncalves and Mogen home. (Police had previously described them taking an Uber home.)
“At this time, detectives have investigated the private party driver who took Kaylee and Madison home on November 13th and do not believe he is involved in this crime,” the department wrote on its Facebook page.

Idaho police deny victims’ families are being ‘left in dark’ over murder probe – live

Update on Idaho college student murders and hyundai

www.independent.co.uk

Again the 'b' word -- "do not believe," italics mine.

 

[ShadyLady]

Who leaves a voicemail in a moment of panic and desperation? moo

ME...."HELP", etc etc....I have had to call LE in a panic. If I needed help I would not hang up....but if no one answered, I would leave message and then call 911.

 

[Gae]

Sounds to me as though LE is trying to not destroy the life of a probably innocent person.

There's also the possibility of the person who made the 911 call having connections with, or related to someone from the area with influence, so LE will treat that person with kid gloves. Just a possibility - since I've known of this personally in a local crime case. The police know who the individual is, but do others? Surely, they do, and are keeping quiet about the identity. Yes, and small town politics can be just as involved, corrupt, sticky as big town politics. Again - not saying this is definitely the case, but there's that possibility, IMO.