ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 5

[rsd1200]

I saw that on the county website. I looked for development plans, but did not request them. Apparently they are available to the public on request. That would provide us with the floor plans - which is helpful when there are four murders in one house where six people are sleeping, or almost asleep.

The renovation might have been on kitchen and bathroom upgrades. The first floor might have always been a suite.

Are there any other exits/entrances to the house? There's the first floor door, the second floor patio door in the kitchen. Is there a third door somewhere, other than the third floor patio door?

How did the culprit enter the house? Which bedroom on the second floor was occupied, which was the extra bedroom? Were the couple on the second floor murdered first because they woke up, or got up, when they heard the door at 3 AM ... when all the roommates were at home and in bed.

Thank you to Garshin for the floorplans.

View attachment 381156

Looking at the floor plans, and Trulia and Zillow, the front of the house is placed and looks, as if it's a back entrance, to me, but it's not. The door does have a keypad and appears to have a deadbolt too.

Where the stairs come up from the first floor is facing the front of the house which would be facing the parking area. I think. Based on the reports of the victims being on the 2nd and third floors, both slider doors would be of pretty easy access on those levels. For exit or entry. The overhead is just to show the terrain and how easily someone could stalk their victim.

 

[TL4S]

Thankful of course for this mercy that they didn't have to endure rape as well.

However, on the Today show on NBC, several days ago, an expert on criminal behavioral was explaining piquerism, which has also been mentioned on the threads here at least twice.

Apparently there are some sexual deviants who are sexually aroused and satiated by the act of stabbing. The thrusting and penetration involved in a brutal stabbing replaces, for them, the sexual act. Maybe the guy was impotent, maybe the guy was an incel, maybe the guy had plenty of sexual experience and "needed" to go beyond. So, while no sexual assault, it could still be sexually motivated.

I am not at all saying that this is definitively the motive, as I have no idea. Just trying to correlate with your statistics above.

I was thankful to read there was no SA, as well. And while I was familiar with piquerism, my inclination was that this killer was more likely in a state of rage (possibly drug-induced), and then my next thought was that maybe the killer had gotten into some kind of altercation with E earlier in the evening, so the motive was not of a sexual nature to begin with. I totally understand everyone's assumptions that one of the beautiful sorority girls had to be the target...that makes the most sense, truly. But due to the layout of the house and lack of SA, I can't rule out E being the target. I guess if LE ever tells us where each victim was located, we'll get a better idea of how it all went down. JMO.

 

[mrsdue]

Complete agreement. For all we know Ethan was the target and someone was waiting a certain amount of time after all the lights were off or something. JMO

I thought about this angle. Someone jealous or rejected, sees E with X at the frat party, knows he is going home to a house with 5 beautiful women and exacts revenge. Possibly got injured fighting with X and abandoned the scene befire going downstairs or didn't want to trouble with locked doors. All speculation, but a different theory.

 

[Oregonmama]

I'm having a hard time seeing how a major altercation in the house fits in with the rest of it. I just don't see how there could be a major altercation in the house, then everyone jumps into bed immediately and quickly goes to sleep - then the perp walks in. Surely, any major altercation would have been followed by a lot of ruminating over it and sleep wouldn't happen for quite a while??

Here is my theory.... the kitchen sliding doors were breached and saw E on the couch. Perhaps he decided to play video games or just chill b4 heading to bed. Suspect sees him and they struggle and he is killed. X comes out of the room because she hears noises. And that's why she had a lot of defensive marks on her. Sp then heads up stairs and kills K and M. They were drunk and had limited functions. The roommates heard the commotion on the second floor and just decided to lock their doors and go to back to bed not realizing the extent of the situation. JMO

 

[chief]

Also every student in the US since their first day of kindergarten recites the Pledge of Allegiance every morning "hand over your heart."

Respectfully, I’ve worked in elementary schools for 15 years and this is untrue.

 

[justanotherwebsleuthyall]

s do

IMO the opposite is true.

Can we separate the manner of knife use from the result? These are 2 different things. Yes, the result looks horrifically effective. But the manner was not like any training or "familiarity" on how to disable and kill with a knife.

IMO, and really sorry for the graphic nature of this:
There are 2 different categories of victims here based on the provided fact that 2 or 3 victims were killed in their beds and 2 or 1 were out of their beds. (Source: Coroner)

1) For those in bed, if all the wounds were to the neck area, plus defensive wounds on hands/arms, that would suggest training. The wounds were not described that way by the coroner.

2) For the 1 or 2 out of their beds, one of either 2 things happened, they were stabbed in their bed and managed to get out of bed before dying (see example 1 above), or they heard noise, got up, had a confrontation. Confrontational wounds would be more complex.

Bottom line, IMO, the facts as they have been provided thus far don't support knowledge or training with a knife.

Perhaps it was not a knife at all.

 

[Diddian]

I take back what I said earlier about the police "righting the ship" when it came to communication. Every statement just creates more questions.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594163393405267968

Interesting that the person did not make the 911 call from their own phone, but instead made the call from the phone of one of the surviving roommates. Did that person have their own phone with them when they came to the residence on the 13th? If not, why not? Did they not want their own phone in the area when LE responded to the call? Were they concerned LE would be asking that the phone from which the call was made be handed over?

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Looking at the floor plans, and Trulia and Zillow, the front of the house is placed and looks, as if it's a back entrance, to me, but it's not. The door does have a keypad and appears to have a deadbolt too.

Where the stairs come up from the first floor is facing the front of the house which would be facing the parking area. I think. Based on the reports of the victims being on the 2nd and third floors, both slider doors would be of pretty easy access on those levels. For exit or entry. The overhead is just to show the terrain and how easily someone could stalk their victim.

Just adding this - apologies if I missed it yesterday. It’s a link to drone Footage of the house.

Aerial view above house where University of Idaho students were killed | Fox News Video

Investigators fly a drone over the home in Moscow, Idaho, where a quadruple murder took place last weekend.

www.foxnews.com

 

[mysteryfan96]

So now that we know all 5 residents + EC were gone from the house that night, the idea that the killer had snuck in to the empty residence and lay in wait seems more plausible.

Yep! Without knowing really all that much at this point, I think there are actually a number of ways the killer could have gained entrance.

There’s your theory- he snuck in and hid somewhere while they were out. Definite possibility.

He could have come in through an unlocked sliding door (kitchen or master bedroom) or via the keypad door if he knew the combination after they had all gone to bed. Seems like this is what the police and families believe, based on statements made.

He could have been let in, even that late at night. If it were someone that one or more of the roommates knew and didn’t consider a threat at all, it’s plausible the killer could have knocked on a door or stopped by with some sort of ruse needing to get in. And once inside he started killing. Not as likely, perhaps, but possible.

He could have been at the house earlier in the evening as part of a group and either hid then or unlocked a door or window for his return later.

Lots of possibilities for how, when, and where he gained access to their house.

 

[MesquiteO21]

So now that we know all 5 residents + EC were gone from the house that night, the idea that the killer had snuck in to the empty residence and lay in wait seems more plausible.

This case has made me think back to my own time in college and I remember a campus news bulletin went out one time about a girl waking up to a guy hiding in her closet. I don’t think there was more info given and I think she was unharmed but yeah that happens….blegh

 

[NuttMegg]

Too early to definitively determine the target? Yes. But as websleuths we can only go on what we’ve been told or uncovered. So I do agree with what was posted- that based on what we do know now, Kaylee is the most likely intended target. That could of course change as the investigation unfolds and law enforcement and/or family members of the other victims divulge more. But one thing we do know is that Kaylee’s bedroom was on the 3rd floor while Ethan and Xana were on the main floor. I think that fact alone at least makes it more likely that the killer went out of his way to murder Kaylee (and Madison) when he possibly could have just killed Ethan and Xana and quickly exited without going upstairs if one of them was the target. And if his goal was to murder everyone and there was no singular target, then why spare the two downstairs? Didn’t know about them? Locked doors? Possibly.

There are other possible solutions to this mystery that don’t involve Kaylee as the main intended target. I just think that at this point she seems to be the most likely target, based on what we know.

it could be something so simple as she got a good job, and someone else she was classmates with did not, was possibly trying for the same. The classmate sees her in the bar unexpectedly, wants revenge, then it all escalates as you mention.

 

[elmomom]

I'm having a hard time seeing how a major altercation in the house fits in with the rest of it. I just don't see how there could be a major altercation in the house, then everyone jumps into bed immediately and quickly goes to sleep - then the perp walks in. Surely, any major altercation would have been followed by a lot of ruminating over it and sleep wouldn't happen for quite a while??

If it was an altercation, it may have been with Ethan and Xana. Remember, nothing has been said about their evening after leaving the frat party early (10 pm?) and it may have been over hours before the time MM and KG get home. Then, the person comes back after they are all asleep.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594397034462994432

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

<RSBM for focus>

JMO.

@BeginnerSleuther, since you asked above, I’m noting that in this interview

Parents of Idaho murder victim Kaylee Goncalves speak out | Fox News Video

Fox News host Lawrence Jones speaks with the parents of slain University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves, Steve and Kristi Goncalves, on 'Lawrence Jones Cross Country.'

www.foxnews.com

in response to a question about perceived safety (question starts 2:20), Kaylee’s mother says that Maddie’s parents have chosen not to speak publicly and have asked Kaylee’s parents to speak for them (excerpt 2:53 - 3:10).

The entire interview has good background on the Goncalves-Mogen family connections and Kaylee’s parents’ perspective on Kaylee’s relationship with her ex.

JMO.

Thank you. I missed this. Appreciate that you went to the trouble of linking it for me!

 

[DoubleH518]

Another thing worth noting in the context of parents supporting the boyfriend is that many times parents get rosy descriptions of their child’s relationship that might not be 100% in-line with reality. Kids don’t want to make their life more difficult by being 100% honest about the state of their relationship and opening up judgment/commentary/feedback about their significant other to their parents. Also, people in love (especially young ones) are not exactly known for being the most rational. MOO

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Interesting that the person did not make the 911 call from their own phone, but instead made the call from the phone of one of the surviving roommates. Did that person have their own phone with them when they came to the residence on the 13th? If not, why not? Did they not want their own phone in the area when LE responded to the call? Were they concerned LE would be asking that the phone from which the call was made be handed over?

I think interesting too. It also fits the roommates being the key statement. And the hesitation about who was in the house- “we think two” answer from the press conference.
Is it possible the surviving roommates had a friend over? How long had that friend been over? Would that friend also be considered Ethan’s friend to jive with Ethan’s mom’s statement?

 

[CSIDreamer]

Here is my theory.... the kitchen sliding doors were breached and saw E on the couch. Perhaps he decided to play video games or just chill b4 heading to bed. Suspect sees him and they struggle and he is killed. X comes out of the room because she hears noises. And that's why she had a lot of defensive marks on her. Sp then heads up stairs and kills K and M. They were drunk and had limited functions. The roommates heard the commotion on the second floor and just decided to lock their doors and go to back to bed not realizing the extent of the situation. JMO

I'm kind of wondering how in the world no one heard screams. JMO

 

[late1]

I know what you mean, but it's still pretty important; it's the first known discoverer of a victim and therefore....well, much proceeds from there. Location, location, location isn't the main thing: it's timing, timing, timing.

The roommate's phone but not necessarily the roommate making the call detail is huge too. Was it easily ID'd as not having been the phone's owner, because it was a male voice calling?

Some think so.

I find it really easy to understand the 911 call in a way that fits the facts provided, and don't think it is mysterious at all. All hypothetical:

1. Unharmed roommate wakes up late, eventually comes out of her room, feels something is off, calls friend to come over. (Or else her friend just came over based on some planned activity.)
2. Upon arriving roommate and friend sense something is "off" whether it is too quiet or whatever.
3. One or both peek upstairs, see someone laying down in an unexpected location. They call out, can't wake the person, Spidey sense even more alerted, friend says give me your phone, calls 911. Or tells roommate to call 911 and roommate hands phone and says, "Here, you call, I don't know what to say."

On the other had I would have to use my imagination to find something nefarious in the 911 call.

I really feel for them at this point, no way predicting or expecting the tragedy upstairs, probably knowing inside that something is off, wanting to respect roomies' privacy if they drunk-crashed or made out on the floor and were asleep.

LE knows the caller and circumstances and has checked it all out. (Of course they could end the speculation by just releasing the 911 call.)

 

[elmomom]

I hadn't read about a report of an altercation in the house. Do you have a link for that information? Thanks.

A very confusing little statement came out last night on MSNBC. It is probably a misstatement, maybe clickbait, or maybe they have info. Who knows.

Investigators say 'physical struggle' happened before Idaho killings, fear grows in community

NBC's Gadi Schwartz reports on day six since the fatal stabbings of four Idaho college students, where investigators have learned that a physical struggle took place before the murders. While officials continue to collect evidence, members of the community are leaving town while the suspect...

www.msnbc.com

 

[mysteryfan96]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594397034462994432

Now that is interesting. Extending the police tape to an area that far away from the house sure does suggest they either found something or think that area could hold important evidence.