ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 7

[wnk]

I understand it is. I remember seeing this when it came out and disagreeing with it then. I didn't take the time to prove my point in depth. But if we look at the source in the timeline @wnk created it links to this article.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article268898017.html

(you have to click on the article to see that the writer is just showing all the events that happened between 2 and 5)

It seems to be a timeline heading of sorts and is NOT just for time of death.
The time of death links to an article that shows Cathy Mabbutt said early morning hours. I will include a screenshot as well.

2 a.m. to 5 a.m.
This is when Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt said the homicides occurred. Moscow Mayor Art Bettge previously told the Statesman that police told him they believed the deaths were 3-4 a.m.

So if you click on the name Cathy Mabbutt that they are using for their source, it says this:
She said the time of death for Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle, Madison Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves is likely in the early morning hours Sunday. Police have shared that the four students were likely at King Road residence sometime after 1:45 a.m.

View attachment 381563

And here is the article link that they use to quote Cathy Mabbutt. It is also linked in her name above.

Coroner: Autopsies confirm cause of death for UI students was stabbing. 'It would have had to been a large knife'

Following Wednesday’s autopsy of the four University of Idaho students found dead Sunday near campus, the Latah County coroner confirmed the cause of death was murder by stabbing.

dnews.com

View attachment 381566

Anyway, I see this as a misinterpretation by ws'ers that may not have looked at the article link and realized the 2-5 was a timeline heading itself and not a true statement of time of death. I believe some chose to rely on how the text transferred to a post here which looks much different than viewing the article. In my opinion, our timeline should be changed back to 3-4 as that makes the most sense anyway.

Thanks for the critical look at this. You're right; I think I misinterpreted (based on the way the article was written and some comments from folks on here that were obviously reading it in the same way) that coroner had extended the possible time of death window. I'll fix that in the next timeline update.

 

[gliving]

Time of death can be estimated by digested stomach contents. Two victims had carbonara after leaving the bar. That should help narrow it down.

 

[wary]

Hate to say this but we really don’t even know if the dog is with the second owner. We may just be told that. For all we know the killer could have harmed the dog too. It’s not making sense how the sister knows she took the dog out. Unless someone saw them out or J is saying that.

Are you referring to the interview where the sister is talking about the safety precautions K would take? I interpreted that as being K’s usual routine, not what she specifically did that night.

MOO

 

[yuri1978]

Does anyone know when the surviving roommates actually moved into this house?
We know EC was a freshman the others were a junior and 2 seniors. I’ve been out of college a long time and went to community college so I never went away so I don’t know when school starts this yr. I ask because maybe the other 2 just moved in and that’s why the killer missed them.

Last August, but I cannot remember where I read it, apologies. I am sure someone will post the relevant link.

 

[seasideForest]

You should read the reports. Seems that Latah County police confirmed that the killer was human (presumably because the little dog was so "neatly" skinned).

For the dog, yes, the confirmation is there. I don't remember anything confirmed about the rabbit. On a previous thread or earlier on this one a poster suggested that the injuries to the rabbit might have been caused by an owl. I doubt it was a coyote though. Wouldn't it and its pack have eaten the whole rabbit? JMO

 

[debirlfan]

LE changed the window of time to include the period when multiple calls were made, yet also say those calls were unrelated to the attack. This seems significant. Perhaps they believe that E and X may have been attacked between 2:00-3:00 while unaware K and M placed repeated, completely unrelated calls to J. And the killer waited to move to their floor (3rd?) till after K amd M went to bed.

Possible that the times are coming from the medical examiner's time of death. Even if police consider it unlikely that any of the murders occurred prior to the calls, they can't technically rule it out.

 

[NatKingCola]

Agreed, it's like they're looking back at the most minute details of what was going on in her life and searching their minds for clues as to why this terrible thing happened.
Is that what you're saying ?
That someone in her circle of friends and acquaintances may have become jealous of her ?

I'm still on the fence about whether a stranger killed them, or a feud with people known to them.

Graphic :




The lack of any blood on the door handles or furniture/walls from the perp makes me think they wore gloves and took them off after the killings.
As in, if you wear a gloves and it's bloody, you'd still leave an imprint if touching a door knob, etc.
My .02.

Honestly, I was mostly saying a lot of non-committal nothing. Trying most of all not to sound accusatory towards anyone, not lead anyone anywhere, and reminding myself to keep an open mind. I was just rehashing what I kept hearing in my head and thinking about. With limited information, I kept going back and replaying wondering if it somehow it could be relevant... or if it's just one of the only things I can see from my window. I think folks could interpret those details in a lot of ways, one being they are totally irrelevant. A complex scene I guess may be two-fold, a lot of evidence and a lot of evidence.

 

[GraceVPrice]

Are you referring to the interview where the sister is talking about the safety precautions K would take? I interpreted that as being K’s usual routine, not what she specifically did that night.

MOO

This is for sure murky, but I interpreted it that she knew her sisters movements from the food truck to bedtime. I assumed maybe they were on the phone or facetime or text. IMO

 

[seasideForest]

Last August, but I cannot remember where I read it, apologies. I am sure someone will post the relevant link.

Almost all information has been gathered in this one post: ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide, Moscow, 13 Nov 2022 ****Media Thread**** NO DISCUSSION Thanks @wnk

 

[Jealoushe]

Time of death can be estimated by digested stomach contents. Two victims had carbonara after leaving the bar. That should help narrow it down.

I thought it has been changed that stomach contents are no longer considered reliable for determining time of death?

 

[oldlady4am]

Was the white hoodie guy hanging out at the food truck in the back by himself watching the girls cleared?

 

[happyday]

Why lock bedroom doors after killing?

If we are assuming that the reason why roommates didn’t see all the victims in their bedrooms because bedroom doors were locked , why would a killer take a moment to lock door before leaving the house ? I can’t stop thinking about this…

To buy time? Or maybe the killer locked the door while the attack occurred and then left via window as someone else has suggested. Maybe not, but I can see it, and it would make the roommates being worried about unconsciousness instead of grisly murder make sense. if they didn’t see anything due to a locked door.

 

[jhock]

Shades of the BTK killer, who would wait patiently in a closet.

I don't think the killer would hide all evening in a "party house", due to the possibility 20 or 30 people could end up in the house.
I think the killer(s) watched from the woods until they were satisfied all were asleep or in their respective rooms.

 

[ConcernedAtWork]

Was the white hoodie guy hanging out at the food truck in the back by himself watching the girls cleared?

yes

 

[Noki45]

I've actually seen a post on the subreddit from a student whose friends were buddies of his saying that he was a sophomore. I know the news reported he was a freshman but it seems they were mistaken.

Yea according to the school they say he was a freshman.

 

[mry123]

I think people are obsessing over the "unconscious body" too much. It's very possible that if it was indeed Ethan who was found out of his room and in the hall (speculation) - then it's very possible that he was stabbed originally in bed whilst with xana. He might've dragged himself out of their room whilst stabbed and collapsed and later died outside. They could've all been in their respective rooms, however one of them was not dead immediately and managed to make it out of the room.
Again this is just my opinion.

 

[SophieRose]

I’m aware that there were five roommates in a six bedroom house, and it was soon to be four. I just wonder how long it had been that way, it would all add to my understanding of the dynamics.

I’m sure it’s been discussed and apologies in advance, were all three girls in the same sorority? Were all five? I’m trying to get how Greek life at UI was. Was this an off campus essentially sorority house or just a group renting together? Maybe college rentals are different now, post pandemic. The girls seemed to be popular, and I am surprised that there was a spare bedroom that someone didn’t want to rent. Maybe the girls were all financially able to split the rent without an additional person. It has been said that there were a lot of parties-friend parties, or off campus sorority parties?

At my kid’s school, the off campus frat houses were party central because the fraternity could not be punished for parties that were not at the true fraternity house. Sure, they were subject to the town’s laws. The on campus fraternity house was where the philanthropic events were scheduled, and the craziness was off site. But my kid’s school was heavily into Greek life.

I just want to understand why there were more bedrooms than people, when I have rarely seen it that way. I assume it had nothing to do with what happened here, but it may help me understand their interpersonal relationships.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/article268735027.html

Police originally said the students were found in a Moscow house that had been converted into apartments. Property management company Team Idaho Real Estate & Property Management told the Idaho Statesman that was not the case. The company said the entire home was being rented under a 12-month lease that began June 5.

 

[wary]

Given that location on the outskirts of town, near what look like natural or cultivated fields, I highly suspect Buddy and the rabbit were attacked by coyotes.

I live on the outside edge of a metropolitan area, with some similar area nearby and occasionally see individual coyotes in some of the natural walking trail parks here (especially at dusk). And when I take my own dogs out into my own yard at night, I can sometimes hear packs of coyotes whooping and yelping as they hunt at night down below the plateau I live on. The sounds send my two 60-lb dogs running for the door and I’m right there with them!

Around here, they typically kill small dogs, cats, and rabbits. But, when in packs, they will go after larger animals that are alone.

The rabbit, maybe, but did you read the description of what was done to the dog?

On second thought—not the rabbit, either. I think that the rabbit would have been completely devoured, if it were a coyote.
MOO

 

[LizzyV]

Regarding the morning scene….it’s very possible one of the surviving 21 year old girls simply sleepily exited her room only to discover the horror of a body somewhere - did she see blood? Highly likely yes! She probably ran so fast back to her room and locked the door in shock and fear and started calling those she knew nearby to please please please come by because she was so scared and something was very very wrong. (The “unconscious person” is the lingo of the emergency operator and seems like too many have gotten hung up on that word).

 

[thisiseku]

Does anyone know when the surviving roommates actually moved into this house?
We know EC was a freshman the others were a junior and 2 seniors. I’ve been out of college a long time and went to community college so I never went away so I don’t know when school starts this yr. I ask because maybe the other 2 just moved in and that’s why the killer missed them.

M posted a photo on instagram on august 17th with title "meet the roommates ". surviving girls were the new ones