ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #1

[steelman]

I took the point to be that the family was found VERY close from where they went missing. Same with the Jamison case.

The point started out with a discussion about scent tracking dogs and their inability to actually find either living or dead bodies. As you can see, case after case after case can be cited showing exactly that.

 

[Trident]

The point started out with a discussion about scent tracking dogs and their inability to actually find either living or dead bodies. As you can see, case after case after case can be cited showing exactly that.

I'm probably wrong, but does anyone know of a case where a dog actually led LE to a missing person, living or dead? Off hand I can't think of one, and if I recall correctly, they didn't do very well with the recent escapees from upstate New York. Believe me, I want to be wrong so someone please show me a case or two.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Search for missing boy leads back to reservoir



http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/15/missing-boy-deorr-search-dogs/30209081/

I wonder who Gpa's friend is?

First I've heard/read of this...

:waitasec:

 

[Penelope]

Yesterday I sent the following email to David Paulides (author of the Missing-411 Series of books). This is the message I sent him:

Mr. Paulides -

I am a member of an online forum called Websleuths. We have a thread going on that is following the disappearance of Deorr Kunz, Jr - the 2-year old boy that disappeared a week ago in a National Forest in Idaho.


I and a couple of other Websleuths Members have mentioned your research and the Missing-411 series of books in the discussion. One member has posed a couple of questions about your research and any conclusions you have gotten from it -

Do you believe that, in these types of disappearances (children going missing in National Parks, Forests and adjacent wilderness areas), it is rare occurrence to have the child's parents involved in the disappearance? By this, i mean the criminal involvement of a parent in a child's disappearance/death in a National Park.


​

I ask this because some of the forum members believe that one or both parents may be involved in little Deorr's disappearance.


Thank you.


[my name]

This afternoon I received the following reply from him:

[my name,]
It is EXTREMELY to have parents involved in a childs death or disappearance.
In Deorr's case, water and elevation is key. There is an old case, David Scott from California is almost a cookie cutter for Deorr's incident. The two year old boy was found by searchers 3000' up the side of a mountain. I know the sheriff stated in Deorr's case that he wasn't in the creek. I'd search it again...


All the best.
www.canammissing.com

***UPDATE - I sent the following message to Paulides in reply to what he sent me (above):

Mr. Paulides -

Did you mean to write "EXTREMELY RARE" in your first sentence of your reply to me? Did you accidentally leave out the word "rare"? (I do not want to misquote you.)


Thanks,


[my name]

His reply to me (and I received it within 10 minutes and the boldface is mine):

Very, very very rare

 

[Hatfield]

I'm probably wrong, but does anyone know of a case where a dog actually led LE to a missing person, living or dead? Off hand I can't think of one, and if I recall correctly, they didn't do very well with the recent escapees from upstate New York. Believe me, I want to be wrong so someone please show me a case or two.

Here is just 1 example of a search dog actually finding someones remains. I am sure there are plenty more examples.

You probably have seen on TV how LE uses drug sniffing dogs all the time to search vehicles for drugs. I know that is different than bodies but just proves they are helpful when trained well.
Border agents at the border crossings use dogs all the time for same reason.

I am sure there are many more examples of cadaver dogs helping to locate human remains. Below is just 1 example i found quickly with google.

http://www.odt.co.nz/the-regions/central-otago/82684/search-dog-finds-remains-tramper

 

[ClaireNC]

I'm behind in reading...

but... I wonder if there is a time-stamped surveillance video of DK Sr. And JR. At the store buying candy?

:waitasec:

I doubt that the store has surveillance video. You can see the store in street view here: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.680...63TYLZP77UpJOzaGRnQ!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!6m1!1e1

 

[Aeronomy]

bbm Well I think the parents were exaggerating there. We have for example one photo of him w/o these three things, instead he is holding a red ball.

Could be they meant he needs those things (blanket, cup, monkey) when he sleeps or naps, or is simply tired, and since it was close to nap time, he might have held them when they left for their little walk, and later wondered why he had not taken them with him since he already had them. Just speculating.

I understand your speculation since it seems he would want his blanket with him just before a nap, but the article below indicates he didn't even have it with him.

"The blanket was in the truck, so Jessica now has got that blanket and she will not let go of it." http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20938555,00.html

I understand the parents are not considered suspects at this time and perhaps the blanket was accidentally left in the truck earlier that day, but still I feel there are a lot of inconsistencies in what's been stated.

 

[windrower]

The point started out with a discussion about scent tracking dogs and their inability to actually find either living or dead bodies. As you can see, case after case after case can be cited showing exactly that.

Yes. With both the Alaskan family case and the Jamisons, where the families were found relatively close to where they went missing, it feels like if a methodical search had radiated away from the area the victims were last seen, surely they would have been found before months and years passed. Dogs or no.

And yes, I do understand the vagaries of searching isolated country--I'm from Wyoming, and quite familiar with lots of different, unpopulated-by-humans terrain. But if I had a family member missing out in the country side, I'd do everything in my power to organize a search to "ripple" out from the last known sighting, and keep after it until the person was found, or I could be convinced to stop.

Reading a forum on a missing couple in Arizona, one poster mentioned a woman who went missing, supposedly dumped in the desert, and the daughter searched the desert for her mother for over a year--almost every weekend and day off, a search party was out looking. The searchers didn't find her mother, someone unrelated to the case did by happenstance (as is often the case, it seems), but, the daughter wasn't giving up any time soon, and I'd like to think that's how I'd be.

Prayers that little DeOrr is found, one way or another.

 

[ggirl76]

Is there a word missing after EXTREMELY? Did he mean to say extremely rare?

 

[ggirl76]

It is EXTREMELY to have parents involved in a childs death or disappearance.
In Deorr's case, water and elevation is key. There is an old case, David Scott from California is almost a cookie cutter for Deorr's incident. The two year old boy was found by searchers 3000' up the side of a mountain. I know the sheriff stated in Deorr's case that he wasn't in the creek. I'd search it again...





Is there a word missing after EXTREMELY? Did he mean to say extremely rare?

 

[Elainera]

Yesterday I sent the following email to David Paulides (author of the Missing-411 Series of books). This is the message I sent him:



This afternoon I received the following reply from him:

[/COLOR]

Thank you for that!

Is there a word missing from Mr. Paulides' reply? After 'extremely'? Did he mean to write 'extremely rare'?

Maybe the advice to search uphill and search the creek again should be forwarded to the family, maybe shared on their fb page?

 

[Jules71]

Yesterday I sent the following email to David Paulides (author of the Missing-411 Series of books). This is the message I sent him:



This afternoon I received the following reply from him:

[/COLOR]

They need to search 'up' that mountain. Where the road goes up to where you can look down at the reservoir and campground. To my knowledge they have not.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[ClaireNC]

The point started out with a discussion about scent tracking dogs and their inability to actually find either living or dead bodies. As you can see, case after case after case can be cited showing exactly that.

I agree about scent tracking dogs not being effective in most cases we discuss here on WS. I read some research in the last few days that said dogs are most effective in tracking criminals at a crime scene. They are also used for missing persons, but their real value is to assist in tracking criminals right after a crime has occurred.

 

[Penelope]

Is there a word missing after EXTREMELY? Did he mean to say extremely rare?

Yes - he meant to say EXTREMELY RARE… However, I will send him back another email just to check.

 

[Penelope]

Maybe the advice to search uphill and search the creek again should be forwarded to the family, maybe shared on their fb page?

I sent a private message via the Facebook page as per your suggestion.

 

[Cardinal47]

That post you were responding to was full of misinformation. The campsite is remote - 10 miles from the nearest town and that town is not much of a town. The usage level is listed as "light" on the Forest Service website and there are only 3 campsites at that location. As far as we know they were the only ones camping there at that time. Also there are not cabins everywhere in that area. Just look at the maps and you will see there is not much around. https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?usp=sharing&mid=zW6CBVbxpdYA.klXz-SrbHNBI and https://www.bing.com/maps/default.a...xMy40NjU5Nl9fX2VfJm1vZGU9RCZydG9wPTB+MH4wfg==

Because of the remoteness and the fact that there is only one dirt road in and out makes an abduction unlikely. IMO

Thank you. I thought I was losing it. I went back and looked at maps and could see no sign of life anywhere. No cabins, trailers or homes. Just nothingness.

 

[Penelope]

Thank you for that!

Is there a word missing from Mr. Paulides' reply? After 'extremely'? Did he mean to write 'extremely rare'?

***UPDATE - I sent the following message to Paulides in reply to what he sent me:

Mr. Paulides -

Did you mean to write "EXTREMELY RARE" in your first sentence of your reply to me? Did you accidentally leave out the word "rare"? (I do not want to misquote you.)


Thanks,


[my name]

His reply to me (and I received it within 10 minutes and the boldface is mine):

Very, very very rare

I also added this to my original post.

 

[Penelope]

It is EXTREMELY to have parents involved in a childs death or disappearance.
In Deorr's case, water and elevation is key. There is an old case, David Scott from California is almost a cookie cutter for Deorr's incident. The two year old boy was found by searchers 3000' up the side of a mountain. I know the sheriff stated in Deorr's case that he wasn't in the creek. I'd search it again...





Is there a word missing after EXTREMELY? Did he mean to say extremely rare?

I queried Paulides again via emailand sent the following message in reply to what he sent me:

Mr. Paulides -

Did you mean to write "EXTREMELY RARE" in your first sentence of your reply to me? Did you accidentally leave out the word "rare"? (I do not want to misquote you.)


Thanks,


[my name]

His reply to me (and I received it within 10 minutes and the boldface is mine):

Very, very very rare

 

[steelman]

Don't forget the missing firefighter over in California, Mike Hardeman. He walked off barefoot and vanished. Dogs and crews came in for over a week and searched relentlessly. His footprints were found in the creekbed. Finally found him about 1/4 mile UPHILL from where his camp was located. Dogs never found him, a helicopter did. The reason the searchers gave....."We just didn't think he would go up that way"............. please people...........stop the madness.

 

[Hatfield]

It sounds like there are large hills/cliffs going up on both sides of the campsite. If the water does not pan out then I agree searchers need to look directly up those cliffs.

Dont little boys like to climb? I wonder if searchers are making a mistake assuming a little boy would not begin to crawl or climb directly up a mountain.