ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #1

[MzOpinion8d]

Link above is dead...

http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks

This is NOT the great-grandfather who was with them on the trip - this is DeOrr's paternal grandfather who wasn't there. The great-grandfather on the trip is DeOrr's maternal great-grandfather.

 

[katydid23]

Grandfather says there was just 4 minutes that the baby was not being watched. And the parents say they were gone for 10 minutes. So that means that Grandpa watched him for 6 minutes, then he vanished, so Grandpa thought he went to his parents.

I am sorry that that really bothers me. If the parents had been gone for 6 minutes already, how can one trust a 2 yr old is going to be able to toddle off into the woods and find them? I don't understand why grandpa thought he was 'with his parents' if they had gotten such a head start. JMO

 

[renarde]

Two things: that wasn't the great-grandfather that was interviewed. That was Little Deorr's paternal grandfather. Little Deorr's great-grandfather who was camping with them is his maternal great-grandfather. We haven't heard anything from him.

And where does Dad Deorr say they've never been there before?

The GGrandfather's interview on all media sources is saying the same thing. He is stating there is 4 minutes that Deorr is unaccounted for where no one "had eyes on him". Not a couple minutes, not 5 minutes, 4. Here is just one link but if you google it, ggrandpa's interview is everywhere and quoted the same on all media.


http://www.**************/2262209/deorr-kunz-jr-update-missing-idaho-toddler-search-narrowed-down-parents-refuse-to-leave-campsite-video/

So lets start with that. The average adult at a normal pace can walk a mile in approx. 20 min. Average walk. So that average adult can walk 1/5 of mile in 4 minutes. Just for Math's sake, lets cut that in half for a 2 year old walking (I actually think it would be less than half) that would mean a 2 year old can walk .05 miles or roughly 264 feet in 4 minutes. So, lets say Deorr was 264 feet away from an adult when they saw he was missing (4 minutes, remember) Take a radius of 264 feet from ground zero which is campfire. They could have eyeballed him if he was still on flat ground. There is NO WAY he made it to top of mountain...no way he made it to second campsite either up...across...or down. That leaves 2 options only...he fell into the creek which IS within 264 feet of campsite, or some stealthy animal came in and snatched him up and took off within that 4 minutes. I really do not think it is possible for an unknown to come in and snatch him and get away within that 4 minutes without anyone seeing him. Dad stated emphatically that they have NEVER been to this spot before and LE 100% assured him that he was not in resevoir.
I remember awhile back a cold case of a child going missing (can't remember his name) in state park/camping. They practically drained the creek and no sign of anything, anywhere. Many years later they discovered thru natural erosion that the creek bed had created a thin shelf under the water line from the rocks and that is where they found the childs skeletal remains...he had gotten caught up in current and went up under this shelf-like rock formation. I fear this is where Deorr will be found...tangled somewhere in the creek.

 

[jashrema]

Two things: that wasn't the great-grandfather that was interviewed. That was Little Deorr's paternal grandfather. Little Deorr's great-grandfather who was camping with them is his maternal great-grandfather. We haven't heard anything from him.

And where does Dad Deorr say they've never been there before?

Dad made that statement on video interview that is up everywhere. My transcription of both segments:

Dad : 2.36 when she called and I was in the truck hauling down to the road trying to get service because I didn't think one bar would get it. So I, she got very very lucky. I was blessed that she was able to get service because I didn't think, i didn't want to try and risk getting half way through my talking to 911 and have it cut off. So I went down to where I knew I could get a little service, about a half mile down the road. Uh, we searched for - after about twenty minutes in a dead panic, not knowing where he was in such a small area, and not knowing, never being there, I knew I was in trouble.

interviewer: was anybody camping round you?
D: that we don't know is...I come to find, I didn't know the area, and I didn't know, I ..there, it's very open but you can't see much ...there's a road that goes up and along the top - we're camped underneath the reservoir, basically right below it, and you can go up above the reservoir, and I didn't even know the road was, did that, I didn't know the road was up there, and as I travelled up there myself, I could've found out [?] I could see everything that was going on at the campsite, but you can't see out - you can't see up, you can't see round and if anyone comes to the bottom of your camp ground you can't even see they are...

 

[Jules71]

Who's who:

Little Deorr, missing toddler

Mitchell Family-
Mom, Jessica
Grandma, Jessica's mom (not camping)
Gr Grandpa, Jessica's grandpa (was camping)

Kunz Family-
Dad, Deorr Sr.
Grandpa, also named Deorr, they live with him (not camping)

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[renarde]

Thanks, that is really interesting. Did he find out about this upper campground when he went to make the phone call? Did he drive that way to get better reception? Or the other way?

When did he find out about the upper campground, was it once SAR showed up? That was my impression originally, but maybe he found out when he drove off to get better reception.

Dad made that statement on video interview that is up everywhere. My transcription of both segments:

Dad : 2.36 when she called and I was in the truck hauling down to the road trying to get service because I didn't think one bar would get it. So I, she got very very lucky. I was blessed that she was able to get service because I didn't think, i didn't want to try and risk getting half way through my talking to 911 and have it cut off. So I went down to where I knew I could get a little service, about a half mile down the road. Uh, we searched for - after about twenty minutes in a dead panic, not knowing where he was in such a small area, and not knowing, never being there, I knew I was in trouble.

interviewer: was anybody camping round you?
D: that we don't know is...I come to find, I didn't know the area, and I didn't know, I ..there, it's very open but you can't see much ...there's a road that goes up and along the top - we're camped underneath the reservoir, basically right below it, and you can go up above the reservoir, and I didn't even know the road was, did that, I didn't know the road was up there, and as I travelled up there myself, I could've found out [?] I could see everything that was going on at the campsite, but you can't see out - you can't see up, you can't see round and if anyone comes to the bottom of your camp ground you can't even see they are...

 

[teeandcee]

One more thing: there are several mines in the area. There are a dozen listed for just the Leadore area. I believe this is where the town might've gotten its name.

I was just wondering about this.

Also, we have had cougars come into town, even in Boise which is very populated. They have to be killed as they are so dangerous. They have been spotted in peoples fenced backyards and have killed small dogs and cats.

Wow, I didn't know that about Boise (we almost moved there last year). I understand they have similar problems in neighborhoods in Colorado.

 

[katydid23]

According to Deorr's father, when they went back to grab Deorr to come and see the minnows, great grandpa said " I thought he went up to you..." meaning he thought the boy went and found his parents.

I'd like to know the circumstances of when exactly that was that he thought the baby was going off to find his folks. Where were they and where exactly did he last see the boy?

What made him think the boy had met up with the parents? Was he toddling off in that direction? I do wonder why he didn't go after him to make sure he found them though.

 

[Mickshawn]

Has that been thought of? Shallow wells???

I suppose the tracking dogs would have smelled that....

 

[jashrema]

Thanks, that is really interesting. Did he find out about this upper campground when he went to make the phone call? Did he drive that way to get better reception? Or the other way?

When did he find out about the upper campground, was it once SAR showed up? That was my impression originally, but maybe he found out when he drove off to get better reception.

Here is transcript of part of interview you ask about...

Interviewer: was anybody camping round you?

Dad: that we don't know is...I come to find, I didn't know the area, and I didn't know, I ..there, it's very open but you can't see much ...there's a road that goes up and along the top - we're camped underneath the reservoir, basically right below it, and you can go up above the reservoir, and I didn't even know the road was, did that, I didn't know the road was up there, and as I travelled up there myself, I could've found out [?] I could see everything that was going on at the campsite, but you can't see out - you can't see up, you can't see round and if anyone comes to the bottom of your camp ground you can't even see they are...

From that answer, it reaffirms he didn't know area nor did he know there was a road there

 

[Mickshawn]

I was wondering the same...could they divert/drain this creek to really check it out?

 

[SweetT]

According to Deorr's father, when they went back to grab Deorr to come and see the minnows, great grandpa said " I thought he went up to you..." meaning he thought the boy went and found his parents.

I'd like to know the circumstances of when exactly that was that he thought the baby was going off to find his folks. Where were they and where exactly did he last see the boy?

What made him think the boy had met up with the parents? Was he toddling off in that direction? I do wonder why he didn't go after him to make sure he found them though.

I've never read that grandpa was specifically asked to watch the boy. .or that he ever accepted or acknowledged that he was watching the boy. .I think the parents assumed. .jmo

 

[jashrema]

I've never read that grandpa was specifically asked to watch the boy. .or that he ever accepted or acknowledged that he was watching the boy. .I think the parents assumed. .jmo

That's interesting SweetT...from the video

D: they could've come in and you could never know it. The water was not very, it was not a fast running creek, but it is quite loud moving through the logs and things like that, so hearing range is not all that far either..so's you couldn't hear anyone coming up either.
Interviewer: so he was just kind of playing, you guys were doing your thing and then you noticed...

D: he was playing with grandpa

J: he, yeah, he was with my grandfather

D:.he was over, he was getting ready for a nap, uh say it was almost, by that time it was almost two, and he usually takes his nap, um...we was just, yeah, we decided we were going to go a little exploring, and he was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire, we weren't more than fifty..


So, it seems that it is a very broad "we" decided. Who decided? Just him and Jessica? Without letting Grandpa in on it, or did all 3 decide that gramps would watch him for a bit?

 

[renarde]

Assuming someone grabbed him at the campground, then what? If the abductors had left the area, with just one bumpy, rough road out, SAR would've seen their vehicle on their way, depending on their response time. I don't know what it's like there, but if the road was unpaved and gravelly, there might've also been a dust cloud from a vehicle making its way down.

If they stayed in the area, the abductors might have been in the upper campground but still...with just one road in or out, I think LE coming to help find little Deorr would've seen them. Or even Dad Deorr, as he was making his call.

Did they release his 911 call?

 

[steelman]

If this does turn out to be an animal, this video shows what I most likely think could have happened.

It would be rare beyond rare, but who is to say that there couldn't be an oversized eagle, hawk or owl living in the region. They have been known to pick up young mountain goats, lambs and other livestock.

It's not out of the realm of possibility.

Golden Eagle Snatches Kid


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RC2FSBrtbw


Another video showing eagles snatching mountain goats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iFOVi0vJGU

 

[Trident]

So many questions and loose ends. By now I fear it may be too late for a happy ending. I sit here hoping, praying for this young child and his parents. It's all I can do. I feel so very helpless and sad.

 

[carbuff]

The area looks deserted on the maps, but it's not uninhabited. There are mining claims, line shacks, summer cabins, prospector's shacks, etc. dotted here and there throughout those mountains. It's distantly possible an abductor could have taken him to a place like that, or even that an RSO with a mining claim just happened to see him.

Not very likely, but not impossible.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I just had a thought...

Trash Bins...

I believe the campground required campers to take the trash out with them...

I wonder if the big trash bins on the way out of the camping area were checked...

Possibly the ones in the little town where the gas station and Station Stop (word?) was/is...

Perhaps an abductor went this direction?

Just a thought...

 

[jashrema]

This is definitely a mystery...I find it odd that there are so few updates on the case, or what LE is doing. Unless they're keeping it quiet, LE certainly isn't treating this as an abduction because they're still in the park? There aren't flyers being distributed which I find weird since the parents were so convinced that DJ was not "on the mountain or in water' and they were convinced he had been taken. I also wish they would release the father's 911 call. I don't understand why they haven't since they released moms call.

 

[travelbug]

My guess would be that no one asked grandpa to watch him. They assumed he would be fine with grandpa by the fire and went off the explore knowing they wouldn't be long.

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That makes sense. The parents may have told Deorr they were taking a walk and he needed to stay with Grandpa because it was nap time. They may have assumed the Grandpa heard them talking, but he didn't. Such a heartbreaking situation for everyone. imho