ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

[rkf]

I think they did treat it like a crime scene after the first couple of hours when it became clear Deorr wasn't going to found right away. People can breach crime scenes and do.

The sheriff’s office issued a news release Sunday night, which reported “a comprehensive search of a radius of 2.5 miles from the campground has been completed by Search and Rescue staff.”

The sheriff’s department reports one huge hindrance has been folks showing up on their own and entering the search area without the incident commander’s knowledge.

“The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office is discouraging concerned folks from entering the search area without being requested as we cannot keep track of who is in the area,” officials said in the news release. “… The reason for this is the area is very steep and mountainous, and the need to keep track of ground resources is paramount in case someone is hurt or otherwise needs assistance during the search.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/grandma-of-missing-2-year-old-he-just-vanished/

BBM ETA: First sentence, showing this was still a problem Sunday night. The search area was not locked down until then, so people were coming and going as they pleased. It may have been treated as a crime scene from that point onward, but even a few hours of the area being unsecured after DeOrr disappeared could have done irreparable damage to any "evidence", tracking or criminal, in the area.

OT: Does anyone know how to tell if their inbox is full before someone tries to send a message? Is there a limit on the number of "visitor messages" a person can have on their profile page?

 

[renarde]

Nate Eaton: Talk a little bit about the cremains that were dumped into, because the dogs were getting a scent

Sheriff Bowerman: Right. Unbeknownst to us while we were doing our grid search, someone came in and wanted to deposit cremains of a loved one at that site, and I’m assuming it’s a favorite site of their loved one, and without thinking, they deposited cremains, not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene and what it would do.

[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M[/video]

If it's not truly a crime scene... what else could the Sheriff have called that area?

 

[rkf]

If it's not truly a crime scene... what else could the Sheriff have called that area?

Search area?

 

[gliving]

:tantrum:

:goodpost:

 

[renarde]

Search area?

Sounds good to me.

 

[TeaTime]

especially when GGP says he saw the boy heading towards the bank JMO

Minor correction. He never said he saw the child going over the bank, he said he assumed it, actually GM said he said he assumed it.

 

[Arnie M]

.

The sheriff uses the words "crime scene" and a thousand people go bananas creating monsters that do not exist

There can be an ordinary everyday auto accident and police will tell everybody to stay away because it is a "crime scene"

I have been at experimental aviation accidents where we wanted to look at the damaged machine to see if any control linkages were broken and the sheriff would not let us ... he said it was a crime scene ... yet we all knew no crime had been committed , including the sheriff.

When a person goes missing it is not a crime per say , but if a sheriff takes charge of the situation , and wants to keep the snoops or gossips or reporters away , all he has to do is state it is a "crime scene" and then he has the authority to control the area

The only information we have is from news reports , family interviews , sheriff interviews , and then we attack those same news reports until they are completely shredded.

And a minute later wonder why the family and searchers are not feeding us more information for our daily gossip.

I dont think the Sheriff has a problem with the family , I dont think the family has a problem with the sheriff , but they both said how disappointed they were with comments on social media.

.

 

[wondering25]

Well unless he thinks the child was murdered at the campsite, which seems impossible as there was zero physical evidence found that we know of and four adults would've had to be in on it, based on the timing and facts we know, he probably just used those terms because "crime scene" is the area where physical evidence is searched for and collected. I can see why he would use that term despite no evidence of a crime.

And of course when they first came up to investigate, they had to treat the site as a crime scene or LE would be negligent.

I disagree that "4 people would have to be in on it". and who is saying a crime was committed at the campsite? A crime could have been committed on the way there, on the way to or from the store or yes, at the campsite, too. What people say are not facts.. they are pieces of information to be weighed. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Minor correction. He never said he saw the child going over the bank, he said he assumed it, actually GM said he said he assumed it.

I didnt say GGP said he went over it. I said:


"especially when GGP says he saw the boy heading towards the bank.."

 

[bessie]

.

The sheriff uses the words "crime scene" and a thousand people go bananas creating monsters that do not exist

There can be an ordinary everyday auto accident and police will tell everybody to stay away because it is a "crime scene"

I have been at experimental aviation accidents where we wanted to look at the damaged machine to see if any control linkages were broken and the sheriff would not let us ... he said it was a crime scene ... yet we all knew no crime had been committed , including the sheriff.

When a person goes missing it is not a crime per say , but if a sheriff takes charge of the situation , and wants to keep the snoops or gossips or reporters away , all he has to do is state it is a "crime scene" and then he has the authority to control the area

The only information we have is from news reports , family interviews , sheriff interviews , and then we attack those same news reports until they are completely shredded.

And a minute later wonder why the family and searchers are not feeding us more information for our daily gossip.

I dont think the Sheriff has a problem with the family , I dont think the family has a problem with the sheriff , but they both said how disappointed they were with comments on social media.

.

Agreed. The word that is often either omitted, or overlooked, is "potential".

 

[cobalt sky]

Regardless, many families of missing people do not speak to the media. I feel that I would but after seeing how hard people jump on innocent victims, like Somer Thompson's mom, Elizabeth Smart's dad, when they speak to the media, I understand why some do not.

And some are just too upset. Like Emmet Trapp's mom. Or Murray Abbott's family. Or the mother of this missing child: http://ktla.com/2015/04/02/gardena-police-searching-for-missing-2-year-old-girl/. Or William Tyrell's parents who didn't give interviews for 7 months. Or the parents of Disen Heu-Aragaki when he was missing. Or the mother of Kierra Stubbs who 7 months after her daughter went missing was still too distraught to speak to the media. http://wiat.com/2014/11/10/fairfield-family-still-searching-after-seven-months-for-missing-mother/.

In any event, this family did speak to the media. A very lengthy interview. Clearly, they spoke much, much more to LE. On several occasions.

At this point I think they know their child is likely dead somewhere in the wilderness. Not one of us know how they feel. I think it would be hard to stand let alone speak. They are lucky not be in the mental ward, frankly. Yet people here insist that if they don't give several interviews to a rapid, suspicious and accusatory public, something's up?

Finally, they have no obligation to "clear things up" with the public. We are unimportant. LE is who is important, and of course search teams. And I'm sure they all know exactly what is needed to be known.

Why anyone thinks this family is of sound mind enough to even be following the mutterings of people on the internet and feel the need to address those mutterings, is beyond me. It's also not like the media is reporting on the discrepancies with any sense of urgency or suspicion. So why on earth would the family of a likely dead little baby even be aware of the "questions" and demands for info of some people on the internet?

I figure they are doing all they can simply to survive these horrible, dark days. It's so easy to declare what is "normal" and what "I would do" when we aren't in their shoes.

God forbid that any one of us should ever be.

BBM ~ Perhaps you have forgotten but they did just that. Less than 3 days after their child went missing, during their one interview, they spent a considerable amount of time speaking passionately about sm rumors and how bothered they were by them. They then went on to spend more interview time trying to dispel said rumors. They were obviously aware of what was being said by people on the internet, and imo they are still monitoring closely. The parents' concern as to what has been said about them on sm has been a significant part of this case imo. LE even addressed it in MSM.

 

[katydid23]

Minor correction. He never said he saw the child going over the bank, he said he assumed it, actually GM said he said he assumed it.

I just read my first reply and it sounded terse. SORRY. I am holding my doggie, who isnt feeling well, and was distracted. I love being corrected so no problem. I was just making a 'minor correction' of your 'minor correction.' :wink:

 

[starfire]

Well unless he thinks the child was murdered at the campsite, which seems impossible as there was zero physical evidence found that we know of and four adults would've had to be in on it, based on the timing and facts we know, he probably just used those terms because "crime scene" is the area where physical evidence is searched for and collected. I can see why he would use that term despite no evidence of a crime.

And of course when they first came up to investigate, they had to treat the site as a crime scene or LE would be negligent.

The phrase "crime scene" was brought up in regards to the person dumping cremains "in the middle of a crime scene". I am not clear if the sheriff meant just the reservoir area was a crime scene, or the entire campground. Anyway, this person was stopped on the way out, not on the way in, and was able to scatter the cremains during an active grid search of the reservoir. I wonder if it was indeed negligent on LE's part that the reservoir was not secured until the searches were complete, considering LE considered it (or was treating it as) a crime scene.

 

[kammiemc]

If it's not truly a crime scene... what else could the Sheriff have called that area?

He could have just as easily called it a "search area" instead of a "crime scene" if he believed that's all it was. I don't assume automatically that he made a mistake in his choice of wording--and I gather you don't either! (He might have, but, sheesh, if we feel we have the luxury of changing the words people have stated to what WE think people should have said based on what we think, we could rewrite all of history.)

ETA: haha, I wrote this before I saw that rkf also said "search area." If I am crazy, I'm at least in good company!!

 

[Floridian]

Mark my spot

 

[kammiemc]

I disagree that "4 people would have to be in on it". and who is saying a crime was committed at the campsite? A crime could have been committed on the way there, on the way to or from the store or yes, at the campsite, too. What people say are not facts.. they are pieces of information to be weighed. JMO

BBM: This might be the most logical thing I have read tonight!

 

[kammiemc]

BBM ~ Perhaps you have forgotten but they did just that. Less than 3 days after their child went missing, during their one interview, they spent a considerable amount of time speaking passionately about sm rumors and how bothered they were by them. They then went on to spend more interview time trying to dispel said rumors. They were obviously aware of what was being said by people on the internet, and imo they are still monitoring closely. The parents' concern as to what has been said about them on sm has been a significant part of this case imo. LE even addressed it in MSM.

This has also thrown me off. Not to go OT, as one poster complained, but in my own experience of a family member going missing, I bared my soul on social media for any tips, and believe me, to this day, I am sure our family is open to gossip that we never would have been had I decided to hole up. And, to this day, I couldn't care less. My missing person was found. But if he hadn't been, I would even care less about gossip and I would be continuing to try to get attention. All bets are off when a loved one goes missing. Truth.

 

[Arnie M]

Agreed. The word that is often either omitted, or overlooked, is "potential".

Good point .... and I think right from the moment of the 911 call , the sheriff was as good as could be expected.

He was on his way to search for a missing child (of course) but he also made note of vehicles leaving the long road to the campground (there were no cars) .... already he was prepared to watch for , and check anyone leaving the area in case there had been a (potential) abduction.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

For the third time,

Does anyone know the path the search dogs took? We are told they kept returning to the reservoir. Other than that, where did they go? That is, the dogs arrived and I assume they were taken directly to the camp site and given an article that had Deorr's scent on it. Did they then go directly to the reservoir or did they go somewhere else first?

 

[kammiemc]

For the third time,

Does anyone know the path the search dogs took? We are told they kept returning to the reservoir. Other than that, where did they go? That is, the dogs arrived and I assume they were taken directly to the camp site and given an article that had Deorr's scent on it. Did they then go directly to the reservoir or did they go somewhere else first?

If you mean the tracking dogs, (the dogs that follow a person's scent) they went from the campsite to the reservoir and back to the campsite. The dogs that were looking for remains hit on the area of the reservoir, but by that time the cremains had been dumped so that hit could not be read as accurate. There was never a mention that the dogs went anywhere else or hit on anything else.

ETA:I kind of recall that it was said that the dogs did not follow the scent to the creek. But take that with a grain of salt.