To jump off your post, treating the area as a crime scene may better preserve evidence of a crime or critical signs in aiding to find a lost or injured child as well as to help prevent jeopardizing the search efforts as did the spreading of cremains.
ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10
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To jump off your post, treating the area as a crime scene may better preserve evidence of a crime or critical signs in aiding to find a lost or injured child as well as to help prevent jeopardizing the search efforts as did the spreading of cremains.
wondering25
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8-18-15
Direct Quote
4:58
Sheriff Bowerman:
Ya know, personally, I think an abduction is one of the least likely events. Primarily, the information we have is grandpa is watching the child. He tells me he looks away momentarily. When he looks back, hes gone, and hes assumed hes gone over the bank. Right where grandpa is sitting, hes within 20-30 yards of the only roadway into the campground, and absolutely no one was seen at that lower campground coming or going, and when my personnel went in, nobody was seen leaving, so I think it, You know, I mean I cant completely rule it out, but its one of the least likely things that occurred.
[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M&list=PLHxHvR1OFyNDkpZrKmKgKJCsujxaoOlUU[/video]
Just for the sake of discussion.. there was still the one hour or so that the baby was missing and the 1 and 1 1/2 hour or so until LE arrived. So there was NO ONE stopping outgoing vehicles if there were any, for at least a couple of hours.. JMO
Direct Quote
4:58
Sheriff Bowerman:
Ya know, personally, I think an abduction is one of the least likely events. Primarily, the information we have is grandpa is watching the child. He tells me he looks away momentarily. When he looks back, hes gone, and hes assumed hes gone over the bank. Right where grandpa is sitting, hes within 20-30 yards of the only roadway into the campground, and absolutely no one was seen at that lower campground coming or going, and when my personnel went in, nobody was seen leaving, so I think it, You know, I mean I cant completely rule it out, but its one of the least likely things that occurred.
[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M&list=PLHxHvR1OFyNDkpZrKmKgKJCsujxaoOlUU[/video]
Just for the sake of discussion.. there was still the one hour or so that the baby was missing and the 1 and 1 1/2 hour or so until LE arrived. So there was NO ONE stopping outgoing vehicles if there were any, for at least a couple of hours.. JMO
I don't know if this has been discussed or not, but what about the rangers for that area? When the 911 call was made, I wonder if the rangers were notified of a missing child and if so what, if any, role the rangers played. Did they set up road blocks? Did they man the entrances and exits to the forest? JW
ETA: from the above direct quote by the sheriff, apparently GGPA WAS watching little Deorr, without question.
IF there was an outsider and IF I was that outsider, I'm sure I would remain a secret. Until somebody fessed up and I had no control over the situation.
That leaves the unknown polygraph results to ponder.
Glad the FBI has them. Inconclusive results can occur for many reasons.
To add no one knows (unless they've been there) how they would react. Many or most do use the media and try everything they can to keep their missing one's image and info out there.
Some do not and I attribute that to how well one handles extremely stressful events, of which this would have to be an 11 on a scale of 1-10.
I would have to have a spokesperson to do it for me.
However the silence keeps us all on edge and there must be "something" in that silence.
jmho
That leaves the unknown polygraph results to ponder.
Glad the FBI has them. Inconclusive results can occur for many reasons.
To add no one knows (unless they've been there) how they would react. Many or most do use the media and try everything they can to keep their missing one's image and info out there.
Some do not and I attribute that to how well one handles extremely stressful events, of which this would have to be an 11 on a scale of 1-10.
I would have to have a spokesperson to do it for me.
However the silence keeps us all on edge and there must be "something" in that silence.
jmho
kammiemc
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I agree. Everyone handles things differently. Although I will say that I thought they didn't seem like deer in the headlights in front of the camera. They had it very well together and communicated very well, DK even going into details about the great search team and addressing rumors about his work. Then they DID have someone who could be public-facing (the PI). Not sure where he went.
One reason they might be silent is that we know the FBI has brought in to analyze behavioral and physical evidence. Certainly the FBI is conducting their own interviews. If the parents feel like they are under scrutiny by the FBI that might make them want to refrain from communicating publicly.
Quoting my own post because I cannot edit it. I wanted to add that the fact that I consider and treat family and loved ones of Deorr as victims has no bearing on my need for them to be ruled out. They have to be fully investigated and ruled out or in. I just avoid speaking negatively or accusatory publicly so as to maintain respect for them. I will say that I have felt from day one that Deorr's parents were not involved with Deorr's disappearance, but feeling aren't facts, and I still do not have enough facts to rule them out or any other scenarios, discussed here or not.
Years ago I helped behind the scenes on a case here in which a husband disappeared and the wife was treated terribly on this forum by many. I pleaded with several mods to put an end to it, but I was told people had a right to express their opinions. I am very happy that things have changed and that WS is more victim and family of victim friendly. In the case I was working on behind the scenes, the wife was pregnant with two other small children, and the hubby had a secret ugly life and abandoned his family. She was innocent and very much a victim as were her dear children.
There have been other cases in which there is a POI, but because I do not know factually know that a person committed a crime, I maintain respect for them and investigate under the radar being careful not to express my opinions or release information I should not. It is against TOS to bash alleged victims, but I would do things this way regardless.
kammiemc
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That is really well put! I try to maintain an open mind and ask questions, offer opinions on facts that are brought up, but in a respectful manner. Probably cross the line every once in awhile, but am happy to be told so. The case you are talking about sounds identical to one in which my co-worker faked his own disappearance on Valentine's Day, abandoning his wife and two little ones. and it was exposed that he had been leading a crazy double life. My colleagues searched countless hours for him. NO ONE would have thought him capable of that, and certainly not his wife. Since then I try to keep an open mind that anything is possible. He was a monster in absolute disguise.
Thank you, kammiemc. I always look forward to reading your posts
. And, yes the case you refer to is the case I was referring to. Interesting you were his coworker! And, it is amazing but sad and ugly that someone who seemed to be a wonderful father and husband had such a selfish, ugly side.
kammiemc
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Thank you, kammiemc. I always look forward to reading your posts
It was surreal, Relay. Not to get off topic, but I wasn't on WS at the time (or I could have been a verified insider!) but I do recall his wife being insulted on local SM and even at the office, frankly. But she's happily remarried now. It still comes up all the time amongst my old colleagues. Here is a link to the thread if anyone is interested:
Found Alive WA - Nicholas Francisco, 28, Seattle, 13 Feb 2008 - #5 ...
kammiemc
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Regardless of my innocence, I think it would be terrifying to have the FBI investigating me. I imagine they dig deep, ask hard questions and are very strategic. I don't know if I would go totally silent (maybe!) but if I had the money I would hire a lawyer, just to make sure I was treated fairly at would obviously be the worst time of my life.
I'm not sure the family is at all concerned that the FBI has been called into assist. My guess is they are thankful! And although the FBI will certainly interview the family and friend, I don't think the scrutiny will be terrifying to them. They WERE and continue to be terrified about not knowing what has happened to their little boy and clearly welcome the FBI's efforts to find him, whatever it takes. When the truth is on your side, intimidation and scrutiny take a back seat. IMO
I agree. I would be paralyzed, not wanting to do anything suspicious, and not knowing what the FBI would think was suspicious! I say that assuming, in this hypothetical scenario, that I was completely innocent. I get nervous when I think people are judging me in much less stressful situations.
Sorta OT: This is why I love group sleuthing. I wondered about the radio silence since the PI and sheriff interviews, while other relatives and friends continue to ask for help finding DeOrr. This makes total sense and doesn't insinuate involvement or lack thereof on the parents' part. Thanks for the lightbulb.
kammiemc
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I'm not sure, either. It's just a possibility of why they might have disappeared from public view that is not suspicious in the least. But you could be right, maybe they are really happy and relieved that the investigation has taken that turn and now feel comfortable to just sit back and let the FBI analyze the behavioral and physical evidence. That is also a possibility. It could go either way!
ETA: I have never been investigated by the FBI, so was just imagining how I might feel. I don't know the family and so could never say for sure that they would feel the same way.
He didn't say that either. GM said that GGP assumed the baby had gone after his parents. No one has ever said that GGP saw the child heading towards anything.
I'm not sure, either. It's just a possibility of why they might have disappeared from public view that is not suspicious in the least. But you could be right, maybe they are really happy and relieved that the investigation has taken that turn and now feel comfortable to just sit back and let the FBI analyze the behavioral and physical evidence. That is also a possibility. It could go either way!
ETA: I have never been investigated by the FBI, so was just imagining how I might feel. I don't know the family and so could never say for sure that they would feel the same way.
Also, they "disappeared" from public view long before the FBI was called so I doubt that had anything to do with it. I imagine they await the FBI's analysis regarding its opinion on abduction, which is probably one of the main things FBI will be advising on. Oh, and please don't confuse (actually substituted) my words. I didn't say this family is "really happy" and "relieved". I doubt there is EVER a day when they feel "comfortable to just sit back" and I never indicated anything of the kind. They are TERRIFIED, but NOT by the FBI! They are FEARFUL, but NOT because of the FBI! THAT is the behavior that will appear during any behavioral analysis, IMO.
pepelepolecat
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Thank you, kammiemc. I always look forward to reading your posts
Seems like Valentine's Day is the day for ugly crimes.
An acquaintance from college was murdered on Valentine's Day. Her parents' house was robbed in broad daylight, and she was gunned down. Except, it wasn't robbed. Her husband killed her, and he'd done it more or less as a Valentine's Day present to his young mistress. It was shocking and brutal and, quite honestly, cruel and callous. She was a sweet and genuinely kind person. (I don't think the case was discussed here, or I'd add a link.)
In that case, I don't think too many really suspected the husband (maybe the police). In fact, people were panicking because they thought a murderous someone was openly invading homes in the middle of the afternoon. Long story short, sometimes gut instincts are wrong. Sometimes they're right. My best hope is that the police are able to sort out what is and isn't real in each and every case to provide closure to those who are bereaved and justice to those who need it. It's not always possible, but I so hope it for this case. I just can't imagine it languishing on much longer when so many people love and care about that little boy -- both family and nonfamily.
How tragic! I saw a similar movie on Lifetime?? I think. It sounds almost identical. I wonder if it was about the same case.
Cardinal47
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I am kind of curious what everybody thinks we can expect from the FBI. Do they issue a report at the end of some period of time?
I know they can turn evidence over to the State Prosecutors office for a charge if they think that is necessary.
We seem to keep waiting for something and I keep wondering what that something will be?
MOO is that DeOrr's case is kind of closing down with nothing much to go on. Not a trace of the little guy and unless there was a whole lot of evidence nobody's talking about...it's cold.
If that is in fact true we only have the lonely hunter, hiker or fate to hope to find what happened to DeOrr Kunz Jr.
MOO
Any ideas?
I know they can turn evidence over to the State Prosecutors office for a charge if they think that is necessary.
We seem to keep waiting for something and I keep wondering what that something will be?
MOO is that DeOrr's case is kind of closing down with nothing much to go on. Not a trace of the little guy and unless there was a whole lot of evidence nobody's talking about...it's cold.
If that is in fact true we only have the lonely hunter, hiker or fate to hope to find what happened to DeOrr Kunz Jr.
MOO
Any ideas?
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