ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

[Cardinal47]

I wonder how much investigating the FBI is actually doing. If they were doing a really thorough investigation, going around asking a lot of questions, contacting friends and family far and wide, etc. I think we would have been hearing about it on social media. Didn't the sheriff say something along the lines of that they were brought in to review evidence, make sure they didn't miss anything and conduct behavioral analysis?

That's kind of what I was thinking too. Really we have no idea if any physical evidence was gathered. We know very little from just the two interviews. The parents and the sheriff.

I am sure they only told what was necessary. They are keeping this close to the vest.

Then there was an investigation by local, state and FBI and what they found, gathered, observed has never been disclosed and no reason for it to be.

The is a criminal investigation with a crime scene and 3-4 POI's. We have the LE, the place the little boy is missing from and the four people that were there with him.

The FBI will do their job and what we will see is an arrest if they think somebody did harm to DeOrr or they will leave it that a child is missing under unknown circumstances.

MOO

 

[Onebest]

There was an article when baby Deoor first went missing where the Sheriff said the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children were coming to help. Can someone tell me what support this organization offers?? I know about the web site and posters....am wondering about personal assistance when a child goes missing.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/14/search-deorr-kunz-lemhi-county/30162615/

 

[kammiemc]

I wonder how much investigating the FBI is actually doing. If they were doing a really thorough investigation, going around asking a lot of questions, contacting friends and family far and wide, etc. I think we would have been hearing about it on social media. Didn't the sheriff say something along the lines of that they were brought in to review evidence, make sure they didn't miss anything and conduct behavioral analysis?

Maybe. I personally have trouble relying on SM comments from people who can't even spell correctly to determine the depth of the FBI's investigation in this case. And, certainly, there has been radio silence from the parents. But, moreso, the reports do not indicate a simple "review" of the evidence, at least not from my interpretation of any of the reports. I think the little team in Idaho did not have the capacity and called in the big guns as the case took another direction and the people at the campsite were named POI's. But that's just my take. Read what I've gathered and let me know if you get a different impression:

Here is a link and a snip from one Reuters article:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/31/us-usa-idaho-toddler-idUSKCN0Q52OP20150731

Bowerman said on Friday he has asked the FBI for assistance in a case that has stretched the resources of his small local law enforcement agency, which is responsible for a county that sprawls across nearly 4,600 square miles of sagebrush flats, forested peaks and river valleys.

Here is one from the local news and some snips:

http://www.localnews8.com/news/sheriff-says-hes-convinced-deorr-kunz-was-not-abducted/34472108

The sheriff also said on Friday that the FBI is sending a team of investigators to assist the Lemhi County Sheriff's office who will be checking the sheriff's office interviews and may re-interview some people to make sure deputies didn't miss anything.

Here's the Idaho news interview link and snip:

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/

Bowerman said everyone at the campsite has had their vehicles and homes searched several times, and Bonneville County deputies and the FBI are now working with Lemhi County detectives.

"All four have voluntarily taken polygraphs and right now they’ve been turned over to the FBI,” Bowerman said. “We’ve given the FBI lots of items to analyze behaviorally and we’ve given them some physical evidence.”

Bowerman wouldn’t go into details about what specifically has been turned over to the FBI but he said he wants “all bases covered” to help solve the case.

“We’ll wait until we get the report from the FBI,” Bowerman said. “It’s going to be critical in this case.”

 

[SeriouslySearching]

There was an article when baby Deoor first went missing where the Sheriff said the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children were coming to help. Can someone tell me what support this organization offers?? I know about the web site and posters....am wondering about personal assistance when a child goes missing.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/14/search-deorr-kunz-lemhi-county/30162615/

http://www.missingkids.com/Support This explains it.

 

[Onebest]

http://www.missingkids.com/Support This explains it.

Thank you so much. Helps me understand.

 

[ClaireNC]

Maybe. I personally have trouble relying on SM comments from people who can't even spell correctly to determine the depth of the FBI's investigation in this case. And, certainly, there has been radio silence from the parents. But, moreso, the reports do not indicate a simple "review" of the evidence, at least not from my interpretation of any of the reports. I think the little team in Idaho did not have the capacity and called in the big guns as the case took another direction and the people at the campsite were named POI's. But that's just my take. Read what I've gathered and let me know if you get a different impression:

Here is a link and a snip from one Reuters article:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/31/us-usa-idaho-toddler-idUSKCN0Q52OP20150731

Bowerman said on Friday he has asked the FBI for assistance in a case that has stretched the resources of his small local law enforcement agency, which is responsible for a county that sprawls across nearly 4,600 square miles of sagebrush flats, forested peaks and river valleys.

Here is one from the local news and some snips:

http://www.localnews8.com/news/sheriff-says-hes-convinced-deorr-kunz-was-not-abducted/34472108

The sheriff also said on Friday that the FBI is sending a team of investigators to assist the Lemhi County Sheriff's office who will be checking the sheriff's office interviews and may re-interview some people to make sure deputies didn't miss anything.

Here's the Idaho news interview link and snip:

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/lemhi-sheriff-opens-up-about-deorr-kunz-case/

Bowerman said everyone at the campsite has had their vehicles and homes searched several times, and Bonneville County deputies and the FBI are now working with Lemhi County detectives.

"All four have voluntarily taken polygraphs and right now they’ve been turned over to the FBI,” Bowerman said. “We’ve given the FBI lots of items to analyze behaviorally and we’ve given them some physical evidence.”

Bowerman wouldn’t go into details about what specifically has been turned over to the FBI but he said he wants “all bases covered” to help solve the case.

“We’ll wait until we get the report from the FBI,” Bowerman said. “It’s going to be critical in this case.”

My comment about social media was not about believing what was being said, but just that there is no buzz about the investigation at all. That strikes me as odd. It's the kind of thing people typically talk about.

From the bits you posted: asked the FBI for assistance...may re-interview some people... analyze behaviorally... given them some physical evidence... Nothing there tells me that the FBI is doing a full blown investigation. They are reviewing what local LE collected, maybe doing some interviews and doing behavioral analysis, which is an area of expertise that the local LE likely do not have. I don't think they brought in the "big guns" just one or two local FBI agents to assist and utilize their expertise.

So I guess I don't understand what you are questioning about in my post.

 

[kammiemc]

That's kind of what I was thinking too. Really we have no idea if any physical evidence was gathered. We know very little from just the two interviews. The parents and the sheriff.

I am sure they only told what was necessary. They are keeping this close to the vest.

Then there was an investigation by local, state and FBI and what they found, gathered, observed has never been disclosed and no reason for it to be.

The is a criminal investigation with a crime scene and 3-4 POI's. We have the LE, the place the little boy is missing from and the four people that were there with him.

The FBI will do their job and what we will see is an arrest if they think somebody did harm to DeOrr or they will leave it that a child is missing under unknown circumstances.

MOO

I also think the sheriff probably didn't want to freak out anyone by bringing in the FBI, so he would use soft language. He uses soft language in general.

 

[kammiemc]

My comment about social media was not about believing what was being said, but just that there is no buzz about the investigation at all. That strikes me as odd. It's the kind of thing people would talk about.

From the bits you posted: asked the FBI for assistance, may re-interview some people, analyze behaviorally, we’ve given them some physical evidence. Nothing there tells me that the FBI is doing a full blown investigation. They are reviewing what the local LE collected, maybe doing some interviews and doing behavioral analysis.

So I guess I don't understand what you are questioning about my post.

I'm not questioning your post. I am responding to your post, which was a counterpoint to my post I highlighted certain parts based on the points of discussion to get your take. I don't know what the heck the FBI is doing, but I am guessing they are investigating thoroughly. I hope in the interest of the investigation they are doing their job well. It sounds like you think they are minimally involved?

 

[ClaireNC]

I'm not questioning your post. I am responding to your post, which was a counterpoint to my post I highlighted certain parts based on the points of discussion to get your take. I don't know what the heck the FBI is doing, but I am guessing they are investigating thoroughly. I hope in the interest of the investigation they are doing their job well. It sounds like you think they are minimally involved?

Yes, I think they are minimally involved. I don't think they are doing their own/independent thorough investigation.

 

[kammiemc]

Yes, I think they are minimally involved. I don't think they are doing their own/independent thorough investigation.

That's why it's great to get different opinions! Thanks.

 

[Onebest]

<modsnip>

<modsnip>

SAR resources through the Sheriff don't charge the victim. They pay all their own expenses and come self contained for 24-48 hours + and don't expect anything. Sometimes people donate to SAR organizations, they are appreciative and caring. For the most part, team fund raising is done by the team itself. And in my opinion the Sheriff will call for additional resources if and when he deems it appropriate. He won't give up, he knows what he is doing. JMO...

 

[giagreen]

It looks like there is a new funding website set up for a new LE approved search:

"We have Sheriff Bowermans blessing to conduct our search. The search will take place after the FBI report comes back so we are looking at the first part of October as soon as possible."

Posted on the Help Find Deorr FB.

Well that kind of answers why there hasn't been any searches imo

 

[1&2&3]

Hmmm, that is interesting, an approved LE search AFTER the FBI report comes back?

So, is that hinting the FBI report is not going to give us any new information on what happened to Deorr or where he is? Too sad for words!

This is getting concerning to me! Just off the top of my head, cases in the last year that the FBI have been involved in with NO success are Jessica Chambers, The Dermonds, this one, and my mind went blank as to whether there are more. Guess my mind just figures the FBI is the know all, see all, and solve all. Wouldn't that be grand?

 

[TeaTime]

Sheriff said the report would be critical to the case. Critical.

I saw a program about a cold case detective that watched the same video-taped interview for FOUR months to interpret the body language, speech pattern, vocals, etc. of the 'bad guy'. This kind of investigation takes time. Lots of man hours. So the fact that the FBI investigation is not complete or is complete but non of our business since this is an on going investigation, does not bother me.

The FBI assists many investigations because the Bureau has all the technology and trained specialists to analyze every aspect of a mystery. The FBI can not take over an investigation unless it involves a federal matter. The FBI is called in on kidnappings because of the possible interstate transport of the victims and as such comes under federal purview.

I am not concerned about the use of the qualifiers "some" and "may" by the Sheriff. Sheriff is very smart.

 

[Arnie M]

3 boys gone missing from campgrounds this summer. 1- Deorr Kunz, blonde hair, 2 years old, LDS connection, Missing July 10th, not yet found. 2- Jerold Joseph Williams. blonde hair, 5 years old, FLDS member, went missing August 6th found dead August 10th. 3- Malachi Bradley, blonde hair, 10 years old, LDS member, missing 23rd of August found alive August 24th. Here's a map showing the campgrounds in relation to each other.

Thanks for that info merlgerl .... found some "useful" information that we can relate to the DeOrr case

--- Malachi Bradley was found 30 hours after he went missing
--- creek and a lake nearby
--- the boys father drove to higher ground to get 911 phone reception (like DeOrr's dad did)
--- there was a large search party including sheriffs dept etc
--- an airplane and helicopter were used
--- several dog teams were used
--- there were searchers on horseback
--- members of the nearby Ute Indian Tribe helped in the search
--- search encompassed a 10 mile area


Out of all that , it was the airplane who spotted the boy in a clearing.

He left the campsite by himself , one set of tracks , it did not rain , not a lot of time went by , the scent should be fresh , I would have thought the dogs could have tracked him

Good news video here from before he was found

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...remote-mountain-lake_55dba39ce4b0a40aa3abf2fa

.

 

[gliving]

Using your example, how would little Deorr's fingerprints have gotten in IR's vehicle? His vehicle wasn't at the camp site and he had not previously met little Deorr?

Thanks ILOKAL. Does Isaac have a vehicle?

I have yet to see a definitive report as to who drove what.

I assumed Deorr drove his grandpa's Suburban pulling the camper. It's not a simple thing to get a camper hitched up ready to roll. Especially a camper that may have sat for a while. And not so easy to tow it over mountain roads.

Does IR even have a driver's license?

I don't think Deorr would let someone he'd never met -IR- drive the rig to a remote camping ground. It just didn't happen that way.

 

[kammiemc]

Sheriff said the report would be critical to the case. Critical.

I saw a program about a cold case detective that watched the same video-taped interview for FOUR months to interpret the body language, speech pattern, vocals, etc. of the 'bad guy'. This kind of investigation takes time. Lots of man hours. So the fact that the FBI investigation is not complete or is complete but non of our business since this is an on going investigation, does not bother me.

The FBI assists many investigations because the Bureau has all the technology and trained specialists to analyze every aspect of a mystery. The FBI can not take over an investigation unless it involves a federal matter. The FBI is called in on kidnappings because of the possible interstate transport of the victims and as such comes under federal purview.

I am not concerned about the use of the qualifiers "some" and "may" by the Sheriff. Sheriff is very smart.

I am in 100% agreement. I give the sheriff huge props. I think he is very smart and communicates very well in a way that has probably served this investigation equally as well. I am interested in how local LE and FBI collaborate and have been reading about it. It seems like a partnership, and like you said, not a takeover. But local LE is not overseeing the FBI and directing their involvement from what I can tell. Is that correct from what you understand?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[StacyMarie83]

Hmmm, that is interesting, an approved LE search AFTER the FBI report comes back?

So, is that hinting the FBI report is not going to give us any new information on what happened to Deorr or where he is? Too sad for words!

This is getting concerning to me! Just off the top of my head, cases in the last year that the FBI have been involved in with NO success are Jessica Chambers, The Dermonds, this one, and my mind went blank as to whether there are more. Guess my mind just figures the FBI is the know all, see all, and solve all. Wouldn't that be grand?

I took it as, they will know where to search when the evidence comes back IMO Not sure at why I got that vibe, just the way I read it maybe :scared:

I have followed those cases as well ... a couple other (w/ FBI, but unsolved): Chelsea Bruck and Kortne Stouffer

 

[ILOKAL]

H

Thanks ILOKAL. Does Isaac have a vehicle?

I have yet to see a definitive report as to who drove what.

I assumed Deorr drove his grandpa's Suburban pulling the camper. It's not a simple thing to get a camper hitched up ready to roll. Especially a camper that may have sat for a while. And not so easy to tow it over mountain roads.

Does IR even have a driver's license?

I don't think Deorr would let someone he'd never met -IR- drive the rig to a remote camping ground. It just didn't happen that way.

gliving, I don't know if IR has a vehicle. The reason I said his vehicle (as in your example) was not at the camp site is because it's been said that the three vehicles at the camp site were GGPA's Suburban pulling a camper plus Deorr Sr's truck. I don't have a link stating that to be correct, it's just general information and could, in fact, be rumor. Giving that three-vehicle scenario, I have always thought that most likely Deorr drove his truck and IR drove GGPA's Suburban pulling the camper. I actually thought that may have been the reason IR was along on the trip. I realize that may not be correct. I also have no idea if IR has a driver's license.

 

[ILOKAL]

I found this interesting link which is a case study in the 1969 Dennis Martin case who went missing while camping in southeast Tennessee. Several agencies, including the FBI and Special Forces, were used in the extensive search for this little seven year old boy. To date he has not been found . It's only 11-pages and worth reading. The purpose of this particular case study was to assist in SAR training.

http://www.uscg.mil/tcyorktown/ops/sar/inland/Docs/DennisMartinReadAhead.pdf