ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

[ClaireNC]

Sheriff said the report would be critical to the case. Critical.

I saw a program about a cold case detective that watched the same video-taped interview for FOUR months to interpret the body language, speech pattern, vocals, etc. of the 'bad guy'. This kind of investigation takes time. Lots of man hours. So the fact that the FBI investigation is not complete or is complete but non of our business since this is an on going investigation, does not bother me.

The FBI assists many investigations because the Bureau has all the technology and trained specialists to analyze every aspect of a mystery. The FBI can not take over an investigation unless it involves a federal matter. The FBI is called in on kidnappings because of the possible interstate transport of the victims and as such comes under federal purview.

I am not concerned about the use of the qualifiers "some" and "may" by the Sheriff. Sheriff is very smart.

I am in 100% agreement. I give the sheriff huge props. I think he is very smart and communicates very well in a way that has probably served this investigation equally as well. I am interested in how local LE and FBI collaborate and have been reading about it. It seems like a partnership, and like you said, not a takeover. But local LE is not overseeing the FBI and directing their involvement from what I can tell. Is that correct from what you understand?

TeaTime, Thanks for adding that example and your insights. It helps explain what I was trying to say last night. (I shouldn't post when I'm tired.) I am in no way criticizing the FBI when I say that their involvement is minimal and am sure they are doing a very thorough job in the areas they were asked to assist. My main point is I don't get the impression that they are starting from the bottom and doing their own independent thorough investigation. They don't have a team of FBI agents pounding the streets digging into the case. They are reviewing what the local LE have already collected and using their expertise to flesh out areas that are beyond the capabilities of the local detectives. I imagine they are sorting through data like phone records, financials, etc and doing extensive analysis of any videos, images, and recorded interviews, etc. This is not Criminal Minds where there is a team of heavy hitters diligently working specifically on the case. There are probably just one or two agents and some analysts combing through data. IMO, One of the reasons it is taking 6 to 8 weeks, is because of the limited staff that has been assigned to review the case.

I also think the sheriff is very smart and the use of qualifiers like "may" and "some" are used on purpose to manage the public's expectations. If the FBI came across something to indicate that a federal crime has been committed, I am sure they would leap into a full blown investigation. I was making the observation that we have seen no indication that this has occurred.

Kammie, I am also interesting in learning about how the FBI and local officials collaborate. Please post any insights you come across while researching.

 

[renarde]

About the new search:

Several community members are seeking donations to hire a search dog team to look for DeOrr Kunz, the Idaho Falls 2-year-old who went missing July 10 while on a family camping trip in the Salmon-Challis National Forest.

Efforts Tuesday to reach Bowerman were unsuccessful.

(...)

The FBI was called in to help investigate the toddler’s disappearance in early August. DeOrr has been missing without a trace for almost eight weeks.

The FBI can provide more resources to the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office and Salmon Search and Rescue which have limited manpower and money to devote to searching.

http://www.postregister.com/article...09/01/donations-sought-search-missing-toddler

 

[kammiemc]

TeaTime, Thanks for adding that example and your insights. It helps explain what I was trying to say last night. (I shouldn't post when I'm tired.) I am in no way criticizing the FBI when I say that their involvement is minimal and am sure they are doing a very thorough job in the areas they were asked to assist. My main point is I don't get the impression that they are starting from the bottom and doing their own independent thorough investigation. They don't have a team of FBI agents pounding the streets digging into the case. They are reviewing what the local LE have already collected and using their expertise to flesh out areas that are beyond the capabilities of the local detectives. I imagine they are sorting through data like phone records, financials, etc and doing extensive analysis of any videos, images, and recorded interviews, etc. This is not Criminal Minds where there is a team of heavy hitters diligently working specifically on the case. There are probably just one or two agents and some analysts combing through data. IMO, One of the reasons it is taking 6 to 8 weeks, is because of the limited staff that has been assigned to review the case.

I also think the sheriff is very smart and the use of qualifiers like "may" and "some" are used on purpose to manage the public's expectations. If the FBI came across something to indicate that a federal crime has been committed, I am sure they would leap into a full blown investigation. I was making the observation that we have seen no indication that this has occurred.

Kammie, I am also interesting in learning about how the FBI and local officials collaborate. Please post any insights you come across while researching.

Thanks, I will. The level of investigation is likely somewhere in the middle of the range we have been talking about. When it's reported that a team of FBI agents are being sent in, you can imagine seven people pounding the street, but it could also just be a team of two. I guess my main point was that I think they are not doing a once-over review to make sure all i's were dotted and t's were crossed. They are being brought in to try to solve an unsolved case and going back to talk to the POI's. Will that lead them to talk to other family members and friends (the buzz)? I dunno! I just hope they are able to shed some more light on what did (and just as importantly, what did NOT) happen so people can start to heal. (But I am tempering my expectations.)

ETA: I honestly can't stand to check out SM on this case because the comments section plays like a Jerry Springer fight. Bad for the soul!


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[wondering25]

I wonder how much investigating the FBI is actually doing. If they were doing a really thorough investigation, going around asking a lot of questions, contacting friends and family far and wide, etc. I think we would have been hearing about it on social media. Didn't the sheriff say something along the lines of that they were brought in to review evidence, make sure they didn't miss anything and conduct behavioral analysis?

Once the FBI calls you, you tend to clam up, imo. I am not sure i would be on social media telling people the FBI contacted me in regards to someone who might be involved in a missing child case. JMO Sure the FBI is reviewing the information gathered by LE so far and doing behavioral analysis as needed but I do not think they are the just a review board. If they see a hole.. etc they are going to follow up.. and they very well may have interviewed the 4 POI on their own as well as employers and some family members. How many family members are on SM talking now? My guess is few. JMO

 

[renarde]

This is a little ... different:

"The group also asks hunters to keep an eye out for anything suspicious in the area where DeOrr went missing after a friend and his grandfather lost track of him."

http://www.postregister.com/article...09/01/donations-sought-search-missing-toddler

 

[kammiemc]

Once the FBI calls you, you tend to clam up, imo. I am not sure i would be on social media telling people the FBI contacted me in regards to someone who might be involved in a missing child case. JMO Sure the FBI is reviewing the information gathered by LE so far and doing behavioral analysis as needed but I do not think they are the just a review board. If they see a hole.. etc they are going to follow up.. and they very well may have interviewed the 4 POI on their own as well as employers and some family members. How many family members are on SM talking now? My guess is few. JMO

SM is a hot mess. Passionate prayers mixed with below-the-belt insults by people who, if you dare to click on their profiles, make you wonder how we continue to function as a society. (Run for the hills emoji!)


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[desert-blue]

This is a little ... different:

"The group also asks hunters to keep an eye out for anything suspicious in the area where DeOrr went missing after a friend and his grandfather lost track of him."

http://www.postregister.com/article...09/01/donations-sought-search-missing-toddler

Is there a way to read the article without being a subscriber? It won't let me in...

 

[ClaireNC]

Is there a way to read the article without being a subscriber? It won't let me in...

Unfortunately the Post Register is subscription only. There are copies of the full version posted in a few places on FB.

ETA: Here is one FB page that looks like it is OK to post. https://www.facebook.com/EastIdahoColdCases/timeline

I am alerting the mods so they can make a judgement about that FB page.

 

[desert-blue]

This is a little ... different:

"The group also asks hunters to keep an eye out for anything suspicious in the area where DeOrr went missing after a friend and his grandfather lost track of him."

http://www.postregister.com/article...09/01/donations-sought-search-missing-toddler

BBM Why does it say that? First, it was his great-grandfather, and second, it has NEVER been said that IR had anything to do with watching DeOrr. I thought he was fishing. This is much different than the miscommunication between the parents and GGP that has been reported in the past. I am very confused about this statement.

ETA: Also from this article, it states, "Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman said he has ruled out abduction in this case." Is this true???

 

[kammiemc]

BBM Why does it say that? First, it was his great-grandfather, and second, it has NEVER been said that IR had anything to do with watching DeOrr. I thought he was fishing. This is much different than the miscommunication between the parents and GGP that has been reported in the past. I am very confused about this statement.

If someone who read the article doesn't mind sharing, who made this statement? (I agree it would be a new take on the situation.)

 

[desert-blue]

If someone who read the article doesn't mind sharing, who made this statement? (I agree it would be a new take on the situation.)

Here is the text from the article. I assume this is okay to post because it is from a news source and is available for free online using the FB link:

Source: Post Register
Donations sought to search for missing toddler
Posted: September 1, 2015 6:30pm
By TOM HOLM
tholm@postregister.com

(modsnip)

The group also asks hunters to keep an eye out for anything suspicious in the area where DeOrr went missing after a friend and his grandfather lost track of him.

(modsnip)

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman said he has ruled out abduction in this case.

(modsnip)

Tom Holm can be reached at 542-6746

ETA: BBM

 

[ILOKAL]

If someone who read the article doesn't mind sharing, who made this statement? (I agree it would be a new take on the situation.)

The person who wrote the article said that but NOT as a quote or anything. Actually, it's used to describe the area they want hunters to give particular attention to which says, in part . . . where Deorr went missing after a friend and grandfather lost track of him. The same for the sheriff having ruled out abduction seems like a summary of sorts. The article also says the sheriff was unable to be reached. I think whoever wrote it isn't REAL familiar with the details and just compiled this from a vague memory of what he had read and or heard. That's just my take on it.

ETA: the information used in the article may have been provided by the organizer for the fund campaign.

 

[Hoosier952]

If someone who read the article doesn't mind sharing, who made this statement? (I agree it would be a new take on the situation.)

I don't see anything in the article that suggests IR was also watching Deorr. Just that he went missing on a camping trip. I don't know if it's been edited after the fact, I'm not seeing the entire article, or I'm just blind.

 

[desert-blue]

The person who wrote the article said that but NOT as a quote or anything. Actually, it's used to describe the area they want hunters to give particular attention to which says, in part . . . where Deorr went missing after a friend and grandfather lost track of him. The same for the sheriff having ruled out abduction seems like a summary of sorts. The article also says the sheriff was unable to be reached. I think whoever wrote it isn't REAL familiar with the details and just compiled this from a vague memory of what he had read and or heard. That's just my take on it.

ETA: the information used in the article may have been provided by the organizer for the fund campaign.

Okay, I suppose it's just to give a general idea of what the case is about and not to provide anything new on the case. I guess I get that. It's just weird how it seems like GGP and IR are at fault for losing Deorr - kind of misleading (unless it's true). I guess I'll just take this article with a grain of salt.

ETA: I emailed Mr. Holm. He replied that the part about the friend and grandpa losing track of Deorr was a mistake on his part. He surmised that abduction was ruled out based on the sheriff's previous statements. So, he was not privy to new information - just an attempt to re-report the story.

 

[ILOKAL]

Okay, I suppose it's just to give a general idea of what the case is about and not to provide anything new on the case. I guess I get that. It's just weird how it seems like GGP and IR are at fault for losing Deorr - kind of misleading (unless it's true). I guess I'll just take this article with a grain of salt.

I read it again and this woman organizer apparently has a web page for this as well. In re-reading it seems as though this information came from her to Tom Holms and might actually be based on her thoughts/opinions about IR and GGP and she may have also summarized and re-created the abduction statement. JMO

 

[sallye818]

Dear God, please let this little boy be found so that his family can have peace and know what happened to him.

Amen.

 

[TeaTime]

I am in 100% agreement. I give the sheriff huge props. I think he is very smart and communicates very well in a way that has probably served this investigation equally as well. I am interested in how local LE and FBI collaborate and have been reading about it. It seems like a partnership, and like you said, not a takeover. But local LE is not overseeing the FBI and directing their involvement from what I can tell. Is that correct from what you understand?


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Yes, correct.

 

[Cardinal47]

Hmmm, that is interesting, an approved LE search AFTER the FBI report comes back?

So, is that hinting the FBI report is not going to give us any new information on what happened to Deorr or where he is? Too sad for words!

This is getting concerning to me! Just off the top of my head, cases in the last year that the FBI have been involved in with NO success are Jessica Chambers, The Dermonds, this one, and my mind went blank as to whether there are more. Guess my mind just figures the FBI is the know all, see all, and solve all. Wouldn't that be grand?

I have a bit of a different take on this. It sounds like no searching until the FBI report is received from LE. So I wonder if that report is going to verify what the Sheriff has in mind happened?

For the search to happen 'the first of October' makes it very close to hunting season. I wonder if when push comes to shove the Sheriff will take that chance...searchers and hunters?

I donno. Do hunters wait for a certain date or do they sneak up there early to get a great spot?

Then again I have never heard of a Sheriff not allowing searchers into an area a child went missing from. I have followed several cases so perhaps there have been others that I have missed.

The only thing I have noticed when groups go out searching is that they have to have permission from the owners to search private property such as farms. They can't trespass.

What a mystery going into two months on Sept. 10.

MOO

 

[desert-blue]

For the search to happen 'the first of October' makes it very close to hunting season. I wonder if when push comes to shove the Sheriff will take that chance...searchers and hunters?

MOO

There is no way I would participate in a search in early October during hunting season. I wouldn't want dogs out searching either. MOO.

 

[ClaireNC]

I have a bit of a different take on this. It sounds like no searching until the FBI report is received from LE. So I wonder if that report is going to verify what the Sheriff has in mind happened?

For the search to happen 'the first of October' makes it very close to hunting season. I wonder if when push comes to shove the Sheriff will take that chance...searchers and hunters?

I donno. Do hunters wait for a certain date or do they sneak up there early to get a great spot?

Then again I have never heard of a Sheriff not allowing searchers into an area a child went missing from. I have followed several cases so perhaps there have been others that I have missed.

The only thing I have noticed when groups go out searching is that they have to have permission from the owners to search private property such as farms. They can't trespass.

What a mystery going into two months on Sept. 10.

MOO

Some of the hunting seasons have already started in that part of the State. I made a long post about it somewhere in one of the threads and don't remember all the details. Hunters certainly might go out and scout out a location before the season or they might just return to a favorite spot year after year. I don't know what the rules are about setting up tree stands and leaving them set up to "hold" a chosen spot. I doubt there are many hunters camping out there just waiting for the season to start. In fact, I doubt that many hunters choose that area to hunt at all. The wilderness is so vast and there are other better places to hunt.

As for hunters hunting while a search is going on. Most hunters will just stay away from that spot if there is a search going on. No use hunting in an area that is being disturbed by people trampling through the woods scaring off the prey.