ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

[BeeFriendly]

It looks like there is a new funding website set up for a new LE approved search:

"We have Sheriff Bowermans blessing to conduct our search. The search will take place after the FBI report comes back so we are looking at the first part of October as soon as possible."

Posted on the Help Find Deorr FB.

For what it's worth...I have donated money to this search. We're not going to find him here on WS or sm. I like the fact that it's been approved by Sheriff Bowerman. I like the fact it is not affiliated with any family members. It's all about finding Deorr. And I'm all in.
I couldn't seem to drum up anyone, I mean zero folks to distribute Deorr's posters nationwide...<modsnip> If this is the only thing I can do to contribute personally towards finding him...I have done so. And I have done so out of love for this little boy, whom I've never met. He needs to be found.

 

[desert-blue]

I don't know a whole lot about search and rescue, etc. but I don't understand why the searching was brought to a stop in the first place (didn't LE say the investigation was moving in a different direction?) and why it now has to be funded by outside sources? Does the FBI do any searches of their own??? Can they call in a search team if they get a "tip" or find new information? Is there not any organization, government or non-profit or private, that at this point will come in and search without expecting money? Has the sheriff indicated that searching for DeOrr in the campsite and surrounding area is not worth spending any more government resources or something like that? Does he expect Deorr to be found in a different area? I have seen missing person cases where the general public performs searches, airplane pilots volunteer their time, etc. and this goes on for weeks. I guess I don't understand the lack of searching from such an early time in this case. I feel like we are missing something. I also can't think that the sheriff would endorse raising money for a search if he thinks that the FBI report is going to reveal that something entirely different happened to Deorr - why let everyone donate money only to have it be refunded? It is interesting that he wants the search efforts to wait until after the FBI releases their findings, though (although I doubt those findings will be made public unless there is an immediate arrest). I guess I have a lot of questions.... I need to quit thinking about this case all the time. I just wish they would find little DeOrr and/or get a break in the case - just something...

 

[ILOKAL]

Some of the hunting seasons have already started in that part of the State. I made a long post about it somewhere in one of the threads and don't remember all the details. Hunters certainly might go out and scout out a location before the season or they might just return to a favorite spot year after year. I don't know what the rules are about setting up tree stands and leaving them set up to "hold" a chosen spot. I doubt there are many hunters camping out there just waiting for the season to start. In fact, I doubt that many hunters choose that area to hunt at all. The wilderness is so vast and there are other better places to hunt.

As for hunters hunting while a search is going on. Most hunters will just stay away from that spot if there is a search going on. No use hunting in an area that is being disturbed by people trampling through the woods scaring off the prey.

The outfitter that services Unit 29 also services several of the adjoining units. From what the sheriff said about wolves and bears running through the area during the search, I would imagine there are plenty of the big game species habitating that unit which should make it a good spot for hunting, I would think.

That was a great post you made about when the seasons begin. IIRC, some of the seasons began August 31st.

 

[gliving]

I have a question. What more can the FBI do that the Idaho State Police crime lab wouldn't be able to do?

http://www.isp.idaho.gov/forensics/

Would it be computer forensics? Something else?

 

[Hoosier952]

I really don't think most hunters are going to want to set up blinds/stands near a public campsite, even one that isn't used often. Not when there is so much public hunting in Idaho. I do hope they broadcast far and wide when the search will be held. I also hope they suggest that searchers wear blaze orange on themselves as well as the dogs, just as a precaution. I'm actually kind of curious if anyone will hunt in that area knowing what has happened there. Is the sheriff suggesting hunters stay out of the area until the FBI reports back? It seems odd the sheriff thinks a hunter might find him, yet discourages volunteer searchers from coming in to look.

I'm not sure what the laws are there, but most states allow hunters to set up blinds/stands (x amount of time) before season opens as long as your name is on it, and then they must be removed within so many days of season close.

I also wanted to add that Deorr's poster was in the Social Security office in Indiana when I went in today. I wonder if it's in every office across the US?

 

[ClaireNC]

Posting some resources so people can educate themselves about hunting in Idaho and deer hunting in general. There is a lot that goes into deciding where one chooses to hunt. That includes things like wildlife habitat, ease of access, hunter success rates, goal of the hunt (deer for meat or that trophy big buck) etc. Some of the resources are specific to hunting deer, since deer are the most popular thing to hunt.

First off, the US Fish and Wildlife Service does a survey of people participating in outdoor sports every 5 years. The last one was done in 2011. It shows that there are about 246,000 hunters in Idaho or roughly 21% of the population. In Idaho, Deer and Elk are the two most popular animals to hunt. https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/fhw11-id.pdf

This Fact Sheet gives some good information on deer habitat in relation to hunting. Notice that the best place to hunt is on the EDGE of where trees meet open spaces. http://www.clemson.edu/extension/natural_resources/wildlife/publications/fs34_whitetailed_deer.html

This article has an interactive map that shows the best spots to hunt in Idaho. http://www.idahostatesman.com/2014/10/02/3404966/deer-hunting-by-spreadsheet.html Unit 29 has a hunter success rate of 20-39%, which is low compared to other places in the state. (For example, Units 26 and 27 have a success rate of 80% to 100%.)

 

[CanManEh]

this may or may not have been said before but this is what i think you have a 2 yr old boy.. mom and dad go for a walk hes left with grandpa which prolly isn;t to much fun but theres one guy left and he is doing the very thing that every little boy that is camping wants to do and whats that u say its fishing..and what was the last guy the one we dont know much about doing he was fishing I think that he left and ran down to where this guy was fishing from there what happens is anyone's guess ...

 

[ILOKAL]

this may or may not have been said before but this is what i think you have a 2 yr old boy.. mom and dad go for a walk hes left with grandpa which prolly isn;t to much fun but theres one guy left and he is doing the very thing that every little boy that is camping wants to do and whats that u say its fishing..and what was the last guy the one we dont know much about doing he was fishing I think that he left and ran down to where this guy was fishing from there what happens is anyone's guess ...

IMO, 2 1/2 is a bit young to be interested in fishing. Just based on my experience with LOTS of children and LOTS of fishing.

 

[ILOKAL]

Posting some resources so people can educate themselves about hunting in Idaho and deer hunting in general. There is a lot that goes into deciding where one chooses to hunt. That includes things like wildlife habitat, ease of access, hunter success rates, goal of the hunt (deer for meat or that trophy big buck) etc. Some of the resources are specific to hunting deer, since deer are the most popular thing to hunt.

First off, the US Fish and Wildlife Service does a survey of people participating in outdoor sports every 5 years. The last one was done in 2011. It shows that there are about 246,000 hunters in Idaho or roughly 21% of the population. In Idaho, Deer and Elk are the two most popular animals to hunt. https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/fhw11-id.pdf

This Fact Sheet gives some good information on deer habitat in relation to hunting. Notice that the best place to hunt is on the EDGE of where trees meet open spaces. http://www.clemson.edu/extension/natural_resources/wildblife/publications/fs34_whitetailed_deer.html

This article has an interactive map that shows the best spots to hunt in Idaho. http://www.idahostatesman.com/2014/10/02/3404966/deer-hunting-by-spreadsheet.html Unit 29 has a hunter success rate of 20-39%, which is low compared to other places in the state. (For example, Units 26 and 27 have a success rate of 80% to 100%.)

Interesting information. Thanks so much. We live on the gulf coast and just this year there was a similar survey on fishing. What are the success rates for the adjoining units, if it says. TIA

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Thanks ILOKAL. Does Isaac have a vehicle?

I have yet to see a definitive report as to who drove what.

I assumed Deorr drove his grandpa's Suburban pulling the camper. It's not a simple thing to get a camper hitched up ready to roll. Especially a camper that may have sat for a while. And not so easy to tow it over mountain roads.

Does IR even have a driver's license?

I don't think Deorr would let someone he'd never met -IR- drive the rig to a remote camping ground. It just didn't happen that way.

DeOrr and his parents were in the black truck, and Grandpa and Isaac were in the Suburban with the camper. Grandpa still drives so there's no reason to believe he didn't drive there himself.

 

[kammiemc]

I have a question. What more can the FBI do that the Idaho State Police crime lab wouldn't be able to do?

http://www.isp.idaho.gov/forensics/

Would it be computer forensics? Something else?

I don't know the difference exactly, so take with grain of salt, But since no one is answering I am guessing that's probably true about greater computer forensics capabilities. Also, the behavior analysis seems pretty huge. I don't think I understood before what a science there is that.
And it's also at least two more brains on the case who specialize (and hopefully have a ton of experience in investigating).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ClaireNC]

I don't know the difference exactly, so take with grain of salt, But since no one is answering I am guessing that's probably true about greater computer forensics capabilities. Also, the behavior analysis seems pretty huge. I don't think I understood before what a science there is that.
And it's also at least two more brains on the case who specialize (and hopefully have a ton of experience in investigating).

I agree, computer forensics and behavioral analysis would be two of the top things the FBI bring that the state might not have a capabilities to do. The FBI has special expertise on missing persons, in general. They have a program where they will help states in such cases. Sorry I don't remember the details or the division name. So the state would not need to dedicate resources to missing persons when they have the FBI available to step in and help out. I hope that makes sense. I don't have much time to write this, so I'm rushing.

 

[dek]

I agree, computer forensics and behavioral analysis would be two of the top things the FBI bring that the state might not have a capabilities to do. The FBI has special expertise on missing persons, in general. They have a program where they will help states in such cases. Sorry I don't remember the details or the division name. So the state would not need to dedicate resources to missing persons when they have the FBI available to step in and help out. I hope that makes sense. I don't have much time to write this, so I'm rushing.

http://www.fbiagentedu.org/careers/intelligence/fbi-behavioral-analyst/

There are several descriptions of FBI Careers at the above link.

 

[gliving]

DeOrr and his parents were in the black truck, and Grandpa and Isaac were in the Suburban with the camper. Grandpa still drives so there's no reason to believe he didn't drive there himself.

Thank you MzO. I think I read the same on FB. Do we have an LE statement to verify? I'm trying to avoid any hearsay as it's all been so contradictory. In fact I think that FB comment has since been removed? Anyone know if that correct? TIA

 

[Arnie M]

.

Various sources said the G-Grandfather was an elderly man on supplemental oxygen .... the point was he is not an athletic spring chicken who whisked a small boy away in the fastest kidnapping ever seen in a campsite

In other words he was never a "suspect"

Then of course a couple of people JerrySpringerized it to sound like he was a demented old man gasping his last breath and should never have be left alone with children.

<modsnip #1>
Jet pilots flying three times the speed of sound use supplemental oxygen too. <modsnip #2>

 

[relay]

For what it's worth...I have donated money to this search. We're not going to find him here on WS or sm. I like the fact that it's been approved by Sheriff Bowerman. I like the fact it is not affiliated with any family members. It's all about finding Deorr. And I'm all in.
I couldn't seem to drum up anyone, I mean zero folks to distribute Deorr's posters nationwide... <modsnip> If this is the only thing I can do to contribute personally towards finding him...I have done so. And I have done so out of love for this little boy, whom I've never met. He needs to be found.

I understand how frustrating and at times discouraging it can be. Can I help you share posters? If you have one I will share it every place possible. What else can I do? I don't know if Deorr is listed with Project Jason (Kelly Murphy who has a 5013C she began years ago when her son, Jason, disappeared) or CUE (501C3 - Community United Effort-Monica Caison). A family member needs to submit a request, though.

On the off chance that Deorr was kidnapped, I firmly believe the eye color needs to be accurate. It is such a simple fix if they would just do it. Sadly, I doubt little Deorr is living in which case the eye color mistake would n longer matter. But, per Sheriff Bowerman, absolutely nothing has been ruled out. So the eye color, which may throw off anyone investigating Deorr's disappearance in the future, should be corrected, imo.

 

[Onebest]

I don't know a whole lot about search and rescue, etc. but I don't understand why the searching was brought to a stop in the first place (didn't LE say the investigation was moving in a different direction?)
In my opinion the Sheriff felt that all search areas at the camp site that could be searched had been extensively. As hard as it is, not all searches are successful and have to be called in at some point. It does not mean you cant go back again or that something sadly was missed. We see it all the time.

and why it now has to be funded by outside sources?
Doesn't HAVE to be but there is the option of planning what would be considered a private search, approved but not organized by the Sheriff's office. Some of those organizations charge for their services and some don't.


Does the FBI do any searches of their own???
I believe they can and do plan many things

Can they call in a search team if they get a "tip" or find new information?
Yes, the Sheriff can request and deploy additional SAR resources when/if he deems it appropriate.

Is there not any organization, government or non-profit or private, that at this point will come in and search without expecting money?
Yes, there are several such as Klass Kids that are professional 501C3's and as such are funded to assist. There are costs but the family is not billed.


Has the sheriff indicated that searching for DeOrr in the campsite and surrounding area is not worth spending any more government resources or something like that?
Does he expect Deorr to be found in a different area?

Have read nothing from LE that has said this search is not worth spending and I cannot remember hearing that another search area is being considered.

I have seen missing person cases where the general public performs searches, airplane pilots volunteer their time, etc. and this goes on for weeks. I guess I don't understand the lack of searching from such an early time in this case. I feel like we are missing something. I also can't think that the sheriff would endorse raising money for a search if he thinks that the FBI report is going to reveal that something entirely different happened to Deorr - why let everyone donate money only to have it be refunded? It is interesting that he wants the search efforts to wait until after the FBI releases their findings, though (although I doubt those findings will be made public unless there is an immediate arrest). I guess I have a lot of questions.... I need to quit thinking about this case all the time. I just wish they would find little DeOrr and/or get a break in the case - just something...

The blue responses are my thoughts and opinions to try to answer your questions which are very good ones by the way. I honestly believe the attempts to organize private searches for baby Deoor come from well meaning folks trying really hard to help. I too wish with my whole heart that he will be found.

 

[Onebest]

For what it's worth...I have donated money to this search. We're not going to find him here on WS or sm. I like the fact that it's been approved by Sheriff Bowerman. I like the fact it is not affiliated with any family members. It's all about finding Deorr. And I'm all in.
I couldn't seem to drum up anyone, I mean zero folks to distribute Deorr's posters nationwide...<modsnip> If this is the only thing I can do to contribute personally towards finding him...I have done so. And I have done so out of love for this little boy, whom I've never met. He needs to be found.

I am sure you have a great plan. If and when LE and the family decides abduction is the key missing element in this search I believe many people will help with posters including myself. That seems to be the key missing element... imo.

 

[BlkMtnGirl]

This is what I've been thinking. I realize all two year olds are different. But seriously a typical toddler can go and go.
I can't even begin to give examples of how my two year old has energy. Its non stop. I set him down and he takes off before I even have time to think I'm running and yes literally running to catch him before danger strikes.

Welcome to my world! Yes, if something more sinister did not happen, I think he'll be found MILES from the campground, and it would not surprise me if it is higher in elevation. If you haven't had one of these little guys in your care for a while, it's hard to believe how much energy they have.

 

[Annie1004]

It could be related to working in a coal mine or around asbestos.