ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #11

[kammiemc]

Isnt that what LE did? The sheriff seems to have ruled out everything, imo. Not an abduction, family is solid, creek and reservoir has no body in it, no evidence of a wild animal taking the baby. So, What remains? Absolutely nothing.. the camp area has not produced a single clue that we know about. Back to abduction.. no signs of the baby anywhere within 2.5 miles of a search area..either. LE has to either say the baby was never there ( which he has said 99%) sure he was.. or the baby was abducted (since area was cleared and family and IR are not suspects).

This would appear to rule out that the parents had anything to do with the baby being missing. i have no idea what is going on here. I am just defending the PI. Surely, if he KNEW the parents, or other POI were involved he wouldn't be wasting his time. He isn't a defense lawyer being paid grandly for his services.

Let the PI do his thing. Unless and until some FBI report results in an arrest, at least the family may feel they are doing something that could possibly be productive. JMO Something fruitful, even if it just increased public awareness may come of this.

Just my opinion on all of the above.

I didn't get the impression that the sheriff had a specific theory he was out to prove. (Do you mean that he approached the case trying to prove that this was not a stranger abduction from the get-go?) I got the impression that he tried to turn over every stone trying to find the little toddler. I believe him. He has not been enlisted by the society of stranger abductors to work on this case. He has no agenda except trying to find the little boy. And god knows it probably keeps him up at night. He comes across as a good man.

He has behavioral and physical evidence that we aren't privy to that have undoubtedly shaped his opinion of what could be likely or unlikely scenarios in this case. And he's not out there throwing people under buses and campers. He has been very respectful to all involved.

 

[kammiemc]

I tried reading through the posts then i realized that I was behind by hundreds of them.
So where are we on this? What can be sleuthed at this point?
Who's cremains were dumped into the creek?
Where was this mystery man seen? (i think 3 different places) and by whom each time? Thank you for being patient with me.

-No one can be sleuthed (I think? Someone correct me if I am wrong. The staring man maybe )
-LE found out who dumped the cremains in the reservoir, but it was not made public. It was not anyone at the site and there has been nothing said that it was linked to this case in any way except unfortunate timing.
-Staring man was seen by the parents in Leadore while the toddler was eating fries, on the day he went missing. Then a woman who was hiking with her family saw a staring man in a an expensive-lookin black Rubicon in Swan Valley and reported it to LE July 19. She only recently called the PI tipline to tell the PI of this. The PI followed up with Dk and asked him if he saw any cars parked out front when the man was staring at his son. The PI says that DK said, yes, he saw an expensive-looking black Rubicon. So the implication by the PI is that this is the same man and likely the person who abducted the toddler. He is enlisting a sketch artist. Meanwhile, LE says to please direct tips to them. (They don't seem so hot on the PI.)

 

[wondering25]

i dont know.. IIRC the sheriff has ruled out an abduction because no one saw or heard any other campers in the area. no one saw a cougar either. Why rule out either? No evidence of anything as far as we know. I don't think the PI is throwing the GGP under the bus.. i really don't. If a gun was found, a knife, an axe, coveralls or duct tape and rope.. what is the difference? Was there blood, tissue, signs of a struggle? How could the PI be throwing GGP under a bus when he is actively pursuing a gray haired man in a Rubicon? MOO

Just my opinion on all of this.

 

[haven71]

It blows my mind that the PI/parents are pursuing info about the little boy when it had been determined it wasn't Deorr. I wonder how long ago they followed up on this. I think it's odd because I have five children, and I can't imagine NOT immediately recognizing if it were them or not them in a photo. Across the years I've had people say, hey, doesn't this picture (in a magazine, for instance) look just like your child....? I'd look and it would be immediately obvious if it was or was not. In fact, sometimes I could see no resemblance to my child when that friend or relative insisted he/she was a spitting image of my child.

Yeah. Blown away. I thought once we heard the child was not Deorr, that was the end of it. I saw nothing after that, until this PI's interview, that suggested the parents considered it could be Deorr, after all. If they had, a huge deal would've been made about it and the situation cleared up very quickly I would think.

 

[TeaTime]

I have always thought abduction was the a very likely scenario and it is about time someone tries to track down the staring man whom we now know drives a black truck - just like the man with the screaming baby at 6pm in Leadore.

 

[kammiemc]

i dont know.. IIRC the sheriff has ruled out an abduction because no one saw or heard any other campers in the area. no one saw a cougar either. Why rule out either? No evidence of anything as far as we know. I don't think the PI is throwing the GGP under the bus.. i really don't. If a gun was found, a knife, an axe, coveralls or duct tape and rope.. what is the difference? Was there blood, tissue, signs of a struggle? How could the PI be throwing GGP under a bus when he is actively pursuing a gray haired man in a Rubicon? MOO

Just my opinion on all of this.

I was wondering the same thing. I guess it is up for interpretation whether the PI publicly announcing that GGP might have been neglectful and also choosing to announce that GGP's axe and coveralls were seized is "throwing him under the bus."

If I were in GGP's shoes hearing this, I would feel like the PI was trying to plant the idea in the public eye that it was me, GGP, who had been neglectful in this situation, for not understanding that I was supposed to be babysitting and going into my camper.

And I would feel like the PI chose to announce to the public that my axe and coveralls were seized, out of all the items seized, because it would make people suspicious that I was involved in the toddler's disappearance. (Why else would the PI say that?)

I would personally feel like I was being thrown under the bus. But maybe GGP doesn't feel that way.

 

[Rayemonde]

It blows my mind that the PI/parents are pursuing info about the little boy when it had been determined it wasn't Deorr. I wonder how long ago they followed up on this. I think it's odd because I have five children, and I can't imagine NOT immediately recognizing if it were them or not them in a photo. Across the years I've had people say, hey, doesn't this picture (in a magazine, for instance) look just like your child....? I'd look and it would be immediately obvious if it was or was not. In fact, sometimes I could see no resemblance to my child when that friend or relative insisted he/she was a spitting image of my child.

Yeah. Blown away. I thought once we heard the child was not Deorr, that was the end of it. I saw nothing after that, until this PI's interview, that suggested the parents considered it could be Deorr, after all. If they had, a huge deal would've been made about it and the situation cleared up very quickly I would think.

I think it's bad of him to keep people thinking it could be Deorr, if it's already been confirmed by the family that it is not Deorr. People will stop looking for Deorr if they think he's already been found.
It's frustrating that the PI and the family aren't singing from the same hymn sheet. What's the point in having a spokesperson represent the family in the media if he is contradicting what they are saying?

And I thought that too about recognising your own child, but desparate people clutch at straws sometimes so it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

 

[desert-blue]

i dont know.. IIRC the sheriff has ruled out an abduction because no one saw or heard any other campers in the area. no one saw a cougar either. Why rule out either? No evidence of anything as far as we know. I don't think the PI is throwing the GGP under the bus.. i really don't. If a gun was found, a knife, an axe, coveralls or duct tape and rope.. what is the difference? Was there blood, tissue, signs of a struggle? How could the PI be throwing GGP under a bus when he is actively pursuing a gray haired man in a Rubicon? MOO

Just my opinion on all of this.

I think the PI is pursuing anything that he thinks will "prove" that JM and DK are not involved. That is his agenda - he has said that himself.

I don't get the impression that LE has shared a whole lot with him so I assume he is pretty much as clueless as the rest of us... MOO.

 

[desert-blue]

I was wondering the same thing. I guess it is up for interpretation whether the PI publicly announcing that GGP might have been neglectful and also choosing to announce that GGP's axe and coveralls were seized is "throwing him under the bus."

If I were in GGP's shoes hearing this, I would feel like the PI was trying to plant the idea in the public eye that it was me, GGP, who had been neglectful in this situation, for not understanding that I was supposed to be babysitting and going into my camper.

And I would feel like the PI chose to announce to the public that my axe and coveralls were seized, out of all the items seized, because it would make people suspicious that I was involved in the toddler's disappearance. (Why else would the PI say that?)

I would personally feel like I was being thrown under the bus. But maybe GGP doesn't feel that way.

I would feel the same way, if I was GGP.

I think the PI would throw IR under the bus as well if it wasn't for the fact that he (IR) apparently has an attorney.

 

[charminglane]

Please bear with me this isn't anything I know about. I've been reading up about cougars as they've been mentioned in the thread.

As I understand cougars don't have dens, but make beds as they move about. Also that they bury what is left of their kill.

The info I read stresses that children must always be with adults or a group, as from a cougars vision children having high voices and sudden movements are attractive as prey. The fact that cougars can leap up to 30 ft from standing, and their methods are silent and they are rarely seen, does make me wonder what are the chances little Deorr has fallen foul this way?

Is it totally out of the question?

I was going with the cougar possibility for the last few days after reading about their habits.
However, this morning--no way that happened.
One or both of those too large cowboy boots would have been left behind.
If Deorr could walk out of them then there is no way, IMO, that one would not have been found.

 

[sonjay]

I was going with the cougar possibility for the last few days after reading about their habits.
However, this morning--no way that happened.
One or both of those too large cowboy boots would have been left behind.
If Deorr could walk out of them then there is no way, IMO, that one would not have been found.

Oh, that's a good point.

And would probably also apply in an abduction scenario in which someone grabbed up the little boy and made off with him. At least one boot would likely have fallen off.

 

[kammiemc]

Oh, that's a good point.

And would probably also apply in an abduction scenario in which someone grabbed up the little boy and made off with him. At least one boot would likely have fallen off.

Good point. Although I guess an abductor could pick up the boot so he wouldn't leave a trail. (Probably not mountain lion, even though they seem crafty!!!)

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Does anyone know how far the tree line was from GGP's trailer?

 

[haven71]

I was going with the cougar possibility for the last few days after reading about their habits.
However, this morning--no way that happened.
One or both of those too large cowboy boots would have been left behind.
If Deorr could walk out of them then there is no way, IMO, that one would not have been found.

I thought the same thing. IIRC a cougar can/will grab its prey by the back of the neck and leap up to 30 feet high with it. If Deorr's boots literally slipped off him sometimes under normal circumstances, it's hard to believe that he wouldn't have been flailing around and one would fall off. Even if a cougar got him and he died almost instantly, there's still gravity at work. When I've worn too big shoes before, my feet just kind of adjust, walking in a manner in which they wouldn't just fall off. So, if his feet were already limp the boots would slide off as well, IMO.

Still, I won't rule it out completely, but pretty darn close. As from the beginning, I'm leaning toward a non-stranger abduction. Why? First of all, Jessica's statement in the first interview where she says something like "Who would want to hurt US like that?" I mean really. Everyone reacts differently but that's not something I would say, let alone think, unless something bad went down and I knew where my child possibly was. And the lack of emotion displayed made me think, she may likely know where he is, and that eventually (hopefully) he will be returned at some point in the future. Possible drug deal gone wrong comes to mind. I also found Deorr Sr's interview very strange for the reasons so many of you cite...the overzealous praise of searchers and high tech equipment searching for him, with barely a snippet in comparison about the whereabouts or well-being of the child. I still wonder if he was at the campsite to begin with, although I recall the sheriff saying his trademark "99% sure" that Deorr was at the campsite.

Because such limited and conflicting information is out there, it's hard to rule out anything. There is a lot of wondering going on and I think we all need to keep our minds open to every possibility out there.

 

[haven71]

I think I missed something. When did IR "lawyer up"? Is this for certain?

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I think I missed something. When did IR "lawyer up"? Is this for certain?

The PI said it in his latest interview.

http://590kid.com/2015/09/18/tips-about-missing-toddler-forwarded-to-idaho-fusion-center/

 

[gliving]

I was going with the cougar possibility for the last few days after reading about their habits.
However, this morning--no way that happened.
One or both of those too large cowboy boots would have been left behind.
If Deorr could walk out of them then there is no way, IMO, that one would not have been found.

I've always thought of a cougar attack as a possible scenario. But reading up on it, I learned the cougar kills by grabbing it's prey's neck and either snapping it, or causing suffocation. So really, it seems the cowboy boots would simply fall off of a limp body. Maybe with snowfall coming, hunters will see more animal tracks to follow.

I've not completely ruled out that he's in the water somewhere. Wish they would have drained the reservoir.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Does anyone know how far the tree line was from GGP's trailer?

We don't know precisely where GGP's camper was parked but using Google maps and what I believe* to be the correct fire pit as reference (arrow below) then it is ~50 feet to the creek side and ~150 feet the other.

* I'm still unsure about the exact location of camp because of the use of upper and lower camp sites. I read and heard it said they were in the lower camp site but even Deorr Sr has said the reservoir was at a higher elevation? This is the opposite of what I thought/think it is?

If someone could clear up my confusion about upper/lower camp sites that would be great.

 

[Rayemonde]

I still wonder if he was at the campsite to begin with, although I recall the sheriff saying his trademark "99% sure" that Deorr was at the campsite.

Presumably the parents, GGP and IR all confirmed to LE that he was at the campsite. Why would they all lie? And if they were all involved in something and the boy went missing before they even went camping, why would all 4 of them go camping? It just throws the suspicion on all 4 of them.

Plus, didn't the woman in the shop say she had seen a jeep with a dirty, bawling little boy... If Deorr was never there then she would have to have been mistaken about that, and it was actually some other little boy.
Did the tracker dogs find a trial at the campground, do we know?

 

[kammiemc]

Presumably the parents, GGP and IR all confirmed to LE that he was at the campsite. Why would they all lie? And if they were all involved in something and the boy went missing before they even went camping, why would all 4 of them go camping? It just throws the suspicion on all 4 of them.

Plus, didn't the woman in the shop say she had seen a jeep with a dirty, bawling little boy... If Deorr was never there then she would have to have been mistaken about that, and it was actually some other little boy.
Did the tracker dogs find a trial at the campground, do we know?

I am inclined to think he was there too. But I don't think we ever heard that IR said the toddler was there, did we? At least not in his interview. Did the sheriff say IR said little DeOrr was there?
That bawling baby thing was specifically brought up by DK and JM as a "rumor" that they wanted to debunk. I can't recall that LE ever verified that it was actually reported. And even if it were true and not rumor, it was at 6 PM, several hours after the toddler disappeared, and we have no idea that it was him.. So that particular "sighting" wouldn't prove that the toddler had been at the campsite. However, if someone who sold the family fries said they saw the little toddler (which has not happened, at least not made public) that would kind of almost prove that he likely had been at the campsite and was about to go back. IMO, JMO all that stuff.


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