ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #13

[TheTruthWillOut]

Did SB say that or one of the grandparents on SM? SB is Sheriff Bowerwman, correct? If so. . .

. . . IR walked the parents upstream of the campsite, left them there, passed back through the campsite to his downstream location and the baby who wanted to stay with GGP went missing in that time. Did I get this right?

SB said in the EIN interview that all were within 100-150 feet of each other. All to me means everyone (GGP, Deorr Jr/Sr, IR and Jessica)

Any other hinkey meters fired up?

Please don't.

Within 300 feet of each other; a football field.

Where has 300 feet been stated?

 

[pepelepolecat]

Well, it seems from the interview that all 4 adults saw DeOrr at the campsite after the visit to the store?

There was an older couple camping in the area too but they were cleared by their local LE. SB doesn't think they even saw DeOrr's family.

SB has told search organisations not to waste their resources looking for DeOrr because every inch of the area has already been searched. There are bears and wolves in the area but he thinks they would have found some clothing it an animal had taken him.

They've been snowed under with false leads from SM and have wasted a lot of time chasing shadows because of it. I'm guessing this is why they are not releasing the sketch to the media - they would get hundreds of false tips from people thinking they may have seen him.

This is just sad, imo. You call the police when you have actual information (or think you have actual information). You do NOT call police because of something you read on social media unless it actually, really pertains to a case (and isn't just the fevered imaginings of someone who has had too much coffee and pizza late at night).

Sorry -- will get off my soapbox. It's just frustrating that anything real that might have come in might've gotten so far buried under nonsensical gibberish that it still hasn't come to light.

 

[pepelepolecat]

Is this the same local news that reported (and called family) that this little boy was found safe at a MN campground? Is SM (Social Media) to blame? Or do we need to get heavy on the local news Media (LMN) when they just pick up and run with the first rumor they get on their desk?

To be fair, EIN didn't report that he'd been found safe at a MN campground. Other news outlets did. EIN just called the family out of the blue, which I can't imagine was pleasant.

 

[wondering25]

wondering25

Registered User

Join DateJul 2015Posts705​

excerpts from the interview.. underlining by me: BBM

08:46
SB: No, at this time I don’t consider them suspects, uh, and the only reason I’m calling them a person of interest is because they were at the scene. Uh, they’re the only people at the scene other than one family that was at the upper lake that was from another county and…and the law enforcement in that jurisdiction, we talked about has vouched for them and uh they’re an older couple, and we’ve been reassured by law enforcement that they would not be involved in any abduction or any of that sorts so um…





16:55
TG: Okay. You did mention something earlier and I want to clear this up. You said something about a…a family, an older family that um…

17:03
SB: Yes, there’s the upper part of the reservoir, there was another family camped up there. They actually helped with the search on the first day and maybe even the second day and uh they uh disappeared before we got a chance to interview them but we were able to track them down. We talked to the law enforcement in their community and they helped us track them down and we uh chatted with them and we don’t feel like uh they were involved. It’s an older couple and they had some of their children come up and uh we’re fairly confident they never saw um the Kunz family, and we’re fairly confident they had nothing to do with uh the disappearance.


I dont know.. how can law enforcement VOUCH for anyone? i could be the most prominent person in my community,... no record.. what does LE vouching for me and my law abiding family have to do with the possibility I abducted ( or one of my family members) abducted a baby?
How does anyone know? An older couple was there and some of their children came up too? Every criminal has a first crime. JMO It injects another element here..imo

Anything I write is just my opinion.​

 

[wondering25]

wondering25

Registered User

Join DateJul 2015Posts706​

SB: Well, initially um the store salesperson didn’t remember uh the encounter. When the father uh… I call him Vernal instead of Deorr, it’s Vernal Deorr Kunz…when Vernal and his wife came back to the store several days later then the salesperson said, “Oh, yeah, I remember you!”

02:45
SB: Now I’m not sure…I don’t recall her saying specifically that she remembered the child. She remembered them talking about their child, and they bought some candy and some other items, and we have a dated and time-stamped receipt, so we know they were in the store. And someone while they were fueling up said they thought they saw a child in the back seat, but that hasn’t been ever positively stated that there was a child there, but ya’ know at this point, I’m believing the family!



Where did the filthy bawling baby come from? JM said those words when she was interviewed. She was interviewed 3 days after the baby disappeared. Either the clerk changed her story or there was no filthy bawling baby. MOO
​

Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance.
Plato
​

 

[Sulamith]

wondering25

Registered User

Join DateJul 2015Posts705​

excerpts from the interview.. underlining by me: BBM

08:46
SB: No, at this time I don’t consider them suspects, uh, and the only reason I’m calling them a person of interest is because they were at the scene. Uh, they’re the only people at the scene other than one family that was at the upper lake that was from another county and…and the law enforcement in that jurisdiction, we talked about has vouched for them and uh they’re an older couple, and we’ve been reassured by law enforcement that they would not be involved in any abduction or any of that sorts so um…





16:55
TG: Okay. You did mention something earlier and I want to clear this up. You said something about a…a family, an older family that um…

17:03
SB: Yes, there’s the upper part of the reservoir, there was another family camped up there. They actually helped with the search on the first day and maybe even the second day and uh they uh disappeared before we got a chance to interview them but we were able to track them down. We talked to the law enforcement in their community and they helped us track them down and we uh chatted with them and we don’t feel like uh they were involved. It’s an older couple and they had some of their children come up and uh we’re fairly confident they never saw um the Kunz family, and we’re fairly confident they had nothing to do with uh the disappearance.


I dont know.. how can law enforcement VOUCH for anyone? i could be the most prominent person in my community,... no record.. what does LE vouching for me and my law abiding family have to do with the possibility I abducted ( or one of my family members) abducted a baby?
How does anyone know? An older couple was there and some of their children came up too? Every criminal has a first crime. JMO It injects another element here..imo

Anything I write is just my opinion.​

The vouching comment stood out to me as well. I think that the older couple must live in a tiny town. Like Mayberry.

 

[giagreen]

I'm more worried about the elderly couples kids that were there.

 

[Rayemonde]

I'm more worried about the elderly couples kids that were there.

I got the impression that the kids just came up after DeOrr had disappeared to help with the search. It does seem strange that LE let them leave without interviewing them, but presumably their vehicles etc were searched when the search for DeOrr started.And I'm sure there was more involved in clearing them than just someone vouching for them - I think SB just speaks a bit imprecisely at times, which confuses people like us who pick apart every word

Anyone know how far away the other campsite is from the one DeOrr was at?

 

[pepelepolecat]

wondering25

Registered User

Join DateJul 2015Posts705​

excerpts from the interview.. underlining by me: BBM

08:46
SB: No, at this time I don’t consider them suspects, uh, and the only reason I’m calling them a person of interest is because they were at the scene. Uh, they’re the only people at the scene other than one family that was at the upper lake that was from another county and…and the law enforcement in that jurisdiction, we talked about has vouched for them and uh they’re an older couple, and we’ve been reassured by law enforcement that they would not be involved in any abduction or any of that sorts so um…





16:55
TG: Okay. You did mention something earlier and I want to clear this up. You said something about a…a family, an older family that um…

17:03
SB: Yes, there’s the upper part of the reservoir, there was another family camped up there. They actually helped with the search on the first day and maybe even the second day and uh they uh disappeared before we got a chance to interview them but we were able to track them down. We talked to the law enforcement in their community and they helped us track them down and we uh chatted with them and we don’t feel like uh they were involved. It’s an older couple and they had some of their children come up and uh we’re fairly confident they never saw um the Kunz family, and we’re fairly confident they had nothing to do with uh the disappearance.


I dont know.. how can law enforcement VOUCH for anyone? i could be the most prominent person in my community,... no record.. what does LE vouching for me and my law abiding family have to do with the possibility I abducted ( or one of my family members) abducted a baby?
How does anyone know? An older couple was there and some of their children came up too? Every criminal has a first crime. JMO It injects another element here..imo

Anything I write is just my opinion.​

I really gathered that that meant that law enforcement cleared them.

You'd think that knowing what had happened and even helping search would have clued them in that they needed to keep LE apprised of their intent to go home, but I guess it either didn't occur to them or they just thought that DeOrr had gotten lost.

 

[giagreen]

I got the impression that the kids just came up after DeOrr had disappeared to help with the search. It does seem strange that LE let them leave without interviewing them, but presumably their vehicles etc were searched when the search for DeOrr started.And I'm sure there was more involved in clearing them than just someone vouching for them - I think SB just speaks a bit imprecisely at times, which confuses people like us who pick apart every word

Anyone know how far away the other campsite is from the one DeOrr was at?

Okay, well what you said makes me feel a little better. And I agree but I'm still worried about it. Lol

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

No one needs to remind me that polygraphs are unreliable but Bowerman's comments lead me to think that there is a "problem" with one or more POIs polys.

09:36
SB: Well, I can tell you that all four people have taken polygraphs. I’m not willing to discuss um um the uh…the findings of those polygraphs at this point. Uh we’re um having some including the FBI look at the results just to give us uh their impression and uh, you know um those are difficult uh interviews and uh you know the polygraph uh experts uh, you know, sometimes they don’t agree, so…uh we’re looking at those real close and we’re doing a behavioral analysis based on their statements uh at the time of their interview.

 

[desert-blue]

I agree that there must be something in at least one of the polys that is "off." However, one of the POIs seems like he'd be hard-pressed by lunch time to relate without issue what he ate for breakfast (sorry for being judgmental but I'm basing this on my impression of his "interview"). Another POI has been described as having declining mental health. I wouldn't be surprised if these two POIs had trouble taking polygraphs. The other two POIs - problems with their polygraphs would be more concerning to me.

IR is an interesting character but if the sheriff suspects him, he is certainly keeping it completely to himself. I have not seen or heard much of anything that places any suspicion on him (outside of SM chatter when his identity and record first became public). It's interesting that no one that knows him personally (or even distantly) has commented negatively about him on SM - at least not that I've seen (which is possible, I'm not on there all the time). MOO.

ETA: I also realize polys aren't perfect by any stretch, but they must have some usefulness or they wouldn't even bother giving them... again, MOO

 

[ReadySet]

I got the impression that the kids just came up after DeOrr had disappeared to help with the search. It does seem strange that LE let them leave without interviewing them, but presumably their vehicles etc were searched when the search for DeOrr started.And I'm sure there was more involved in clearing them than just someone vouching for them - I think SB just speaks a bit imprecisely at times, which confuses people like us who pick apart every word

Anyone know how far away the other campsite is from the one DeOrr was at?

I'm pretty sure it's a half a mile; just haven't found link yet.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Here is a link for upper/lower campgrounds and distance apart (0.5 mile)

http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/scnf/recarea?recid=76098

HTH

Is it possible this old couple camping were the ones who emptied the cremains into the reservoir?

 

[desert-blue]

Here is a link for upper/lower campgrounds and distance apart (0.5 mile)

http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/scnf/recarea?recid=76098

HTH

Is it possible this old couple camping were the ones who emptied the cremains into the reservoir?

It looks like the other campsites are on the opposite end of the reservoir, so in addition to being "up" from the lower campsites, they are clear on the other side - not exactly "close," but it looks to me like the folks at the upper campground would have to drive right by the lower campground every time they came or went - I wonder, though, if that's the road that DK was talking about when he said there was a road up above them that he didn't even know existed? If it's up higher, maybe you can't actually see that road from the lower campground...

And, yikes - I wonder if it was the upper campers that scattered the cremains??? If they helped search for Deorr, though, they would have known there was a search and rescue under way. Maybe they just didn't think about how it would affect the search dogs. Interesting!

 

[helenlouise426]

wondering25

Registered User

Join DateJul 2015Posts705​

excerpts from the interview.. underlining by me: BBM

08:46
SB: No, at this time I don’t consider them suspects, uh, and the only reason I’m calling them a person of interest is because they were at the scene. Uh, they’re the only people at the scene other than one family that was at the upper lake that was from another county and…and the law enforcement in that jurisdiction, we talked about has vouched for them and uh they’re an older couple, and we’ve been reassured by law enforcement that they would not be involved in any abduction or any of that sorts so um…





16:55
TG: Okay. You did mention something earlier and I want to clear this up. You said something about a…a family, an older family that um…

17:03
SB: Yes, there’s the upper part of the reservoir, there was another family camped up there. They actually helped with the search on the first day and maybe even the second day and uh they uh disappeared before we got a chance to interview them but we were able to track them down. We talked to the law enforcement in their community and they helped us track them down and we uh chatted with them and we don’t feel like uh they were involved. It’s an older couple and they had some of their children come up and uh we’re fairly confident they never saw um the Kunz family, and we’re fairly confident they had nothing to do with uh the disappearance.


I dont know.. how can law enforcement VOUCH for anyone? i could be the most prominent person in my community,... no record.. what does LE vouching for me and my law abiding family have to do with the possibility I abducted ( or one of my family members) abducted a baby?
How does anyone know? An older couple was there and some of their children came up too? Every criminal has a first crime. JMO It injects another element here..imo

Anything I write is just my opinion.​

What concerns me is they aren't COMPLETELY confident...they are only FAIRLY confident. What does that even mean??

 

[Morag]

...that the baby was at the campsite. Yet apparently all of the people/POIs said he was there. Could that mean he suspects that there is a 1 percent chance that all of them are untruthful? That one percent has to apply to all of them.
I have no opinion on this case, other than it is very odd...

 

[wondering25]

No one needs to remind me that polygraphs are unreliable but Bowerman's comments lead me to think that there is a "problem" with one or more POIs polys.

09:36
SB: Well, I can tell you that all four people have taken polygraphs. I’m not willing to discuss um um the uh…the findings of those polygraphs at this point. Uh we’re um having some including the FBI look at the results just to give us uh their impression and uh, you know um those are difficult uh interviews and uh you know the polygraph uh experts uh, you know, sometimes they don’t agree, so…uh we’re looking at those real close and we’re doing a behavioral analysis based on their statements uh at the time of their interview.

The FBI got involved ~ 7-31. It doesnt take almost 3 months to analyze this stuff. Sorry.. JMO

 

[Morag]

Could this be a case of slowly, slowly, catchee monkey?

 

[Rayemonde]

I had a wacky idea. What if a strange kleptomaniac, EMT bag stealing person was helping with the search and found some clothing or boots of little DeOrr's from an animal attack, and decided to pocket it instead of telling any one. Yeah, I know, it's very unlikely, but more likely than a child just vanishing into thin air.