ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #14

[MJ1960]

I think they have garnered some strength yet are very emotional, understandably. At this point I think they desperately want to find their son and bring him home - no matter what. :-(. My heart goes out to them. May the Lord continue to give them strength and ease their pain with the promise that no matter what, and if little DeOrr has met his Father in Heaven, that he is now cradled in His loving arms. God Bless Little DeOrr.

It looked to me like they've gained some strength, too, especially in that second video. They were very careful in both videos to not say, "We're here to find him," but rather, "We're here to find any evidence that may lead us to know where to go from here." Just so utterly heartbreaking.

 

[giagreen]

It made me sad cause in the video they did look like they've gained some strength. But while grandma is talking if you look at DeOrr and his throat you can tell he is fighting back tears. I feel so bad for them and hope they find some answers soon.

 

[wondering25]

so, it takes 45 minutes from the stage shop to the campsite per the grandma. That should help with the original timeline. MOO

 

[Dee10]

so, it takes 45 minutes from the stage shop to the campsite per the grandma. That should help with the original timeline. MOO

I'm glad Trina pointed this out. Big difference from 20 min. to 45, so where did 20 min. come from??? IIRC google has 45 as well.

Left for store per SB 10:30 to 11:00 Back at 1:00 from DeOrr Total driving time about 1 hour and a half.

This would leave anywhere from 1/2 hour to one hour in the convenience store unless they stopped somewhere we haven't be told IMO.

 

[MJ1960]

I'm glad Trina pointed this out. Big difference from 20 min. to 45, so where did 20 min. come from??? IIRC google has 45 as well.

Left for store per SB 10:30 to 11:00 Back at 1:00 from DeOrr Total driving time about 1 hour and a half.

This would leave anywhere from 1/2 hour to one hour in the convenience store unless they stopped somewhere we haven't be told IMO.

Well, let's say they were in their car and left the campground at 10:30. They would arrive at Stage Stop at 11:15. Say 30 minutes at the store (our average for a quick stop with children). That puts them as leaving Stage Stop at 11:45. Then back to camp at 12:30. So with approximations, that would make sense. It seems like a realistic timeline to me, in my opinion.

 

[DexterMorgan]

What is the best way to abduct a toddler on a campsite with 4 adults around?

 

[pepelepolecat]

What is the best way to abduct a toddler on a campsite with 4 adults around?

Wait until everyone is distracted and completely relaxed/guard down?

I feel that a known abductor is more of a possibility than an unknown abductor (not only because it's statistically more likely but also because of factors specific to this case). And if someone had been stalking them before now and during the trip, they could have more easily gotten close enough to DeOrr to have grabbed him when GGPa got distracted and everyone was gone. It would have been an incredibly bold move, but I do believe it is *just* possible that it happened. But who? That's harder to suss out.

At the same time, though, I think it's more likely that he wandered away. Where is he? That I do not know, either. There are too many unanswered questions in the public sphere, and I'm not even sure LE has the answers to them, either.

 

[ILOKAL]

The video makes me think about public assumptions about the family's innocence. I know I have speculated about all 4 POI's, but mostly the parents. I really feel they came across as sincere in wanting (and believing) that their son is out there, and their emotions seemed more "normal" and appropriate (for what many of us feel were lacking in other videos). IMO.

What is shown by the media is very limited. And whatever they choose to include in an interview or clip can possibly make or break the public's opinion of the POI's.

There are still so many things that don't make sense, in large part because not much info. has been released. I don't know if there is much info TO release. Although my perception has changed a little concerning the parents, I'm wondering if "speculation" would be more likely to be accurate at the beginning...the first interview...or in recent videos. Since the FBI was focusing on behavior analysis of the POI's at the beginning of the investigation, IIRC, I would think their/our impressions might be more fresh to draw any conclusions. On the other hand, of course everyone acts differently to a traumatic situation, so there's that. That said, I did not feel that Mom or Dad were acting "typical" of someone who had just lost (perhaps forever), for their child.

I wonder had more interviews been given, how much public speculation about the parents' emotional reactions would've changed. I imagine seeing the parents regularly on a video like this one might've softened those who are/were judgmental about the integrity of their reactions.

However, my own personal opinion is still that Deorr was taken by a known abductor. Perhaps someone holding him until Mom and Dad pay up, if it has to do with owing the abductor's something. Mom's statements at first and perceived lack of urgency, as well as saying who would hurt them this way, makes a lot of sense to me if the prior theory were true. It could be now, they're at the end of their ropes, knowing where he is but thinking he would've been returned to them by now.

No matter what, it's a tragedy. I still feel for the parents, even though I believe they know where he is. IMO of course.

I question your comment that the FBI was focusing their investigation on behavioral analysis because I don't recall that being said. Perhaps you have a link?

 

[haven71]

Well, let's say they were in their car and left the campground at 10:30. They would arrive at Stage Stop at 11:15. Say 30 minutes at the store (our average for a quick stop with children). That puts them as leaving Stage Stop at 11:45. Then back to camp at 12:30. So with approximations, that would make sense. It seems like a realistic timeline to me, in my opinion.

How large of a store is the Stage Stop, do we know? Is there a deli there where Deorr got his fries? How many employees work there at the same time? I have 5 kids, and I cannot imagine stopping at a store like that for more than 15 minutes MAX. If it were a Walmart, that would be a different story. Also important to note, that why would they need to shop for 30 minutes? Camping, when planned, most likely wouldn't include a 30 minute stop to shop for food and tampons (or whatever they bought). In addition, isn't this the time and place that the clerk remembered having a conversation with the parents, but couldn't remember seeing Deorr? And that there was a possibility that someone saw him outside in the truck. With both parents inside the store, do you think they would be in there 30 minutes???

 

[ILOKAL]

Wait until everyone is distracted and completely relaxed/guard down?

I feel that a known abductor is more of a possibility than an unknown abductor (not only because it's statistically more likely but also because of factors specific to this case). And if someone had been stalking them before now and during the trip, they could have more easily gotten close enough to DeOrr to have grabbed him when GGPa got distracted and everyone was gone. It would have been an incredibly bold move, but I do believe it is *just* possible that it happened. But who? That's harder to suss out.

At the same time, though, I think it's more likely that he wandered away. Where is he? That I do not know, either. There are too many unanswered questions in the public sphere, and I'm not even sure LE has the answers to them, either.

I don't know of any factors specific to this case that would indicate a "known" abductor is more likely than a stranger, except for an innocuous comment made by an anguised mother three days after little son vanished . Are there others, as you have indicated with "factors"?

 

[haven71]

I question your comment that the FBI was focusing their investigation on behavioral analysis because I don't recall that being said. Perhaps you have a link?

I meant that the time frame (early interviews) was what they were behaviorally analyzing. I.I.R.C.

<modsnip>

I'll look for the link to support what I meant.

 

[jbelle]

I have learned to not make assumptions of guilt based on zero facts. In this case it seemed they looked for little DeOrr and when they couldn't find anything
the FBI was asked to help. I don't assume they found anything since nothing has happened since. I really think this boy wandered off.

I mentioned the case of Becky Watts before in these threads, that father was flat out assumed guilty by many until facts came out that made "weird" behavior make sense.

I see a lot of people saying that they wouldn't care what the public thought if their child was missing but honestly, if my baby was gone and on top of that I was being blamed? It would absolutely gut me.

I think asking questions is very important I just have learned to be more careful than I used to be when I post. I have been guilty of voicing "gut feelings" in the past fully believing them and I turned out to be flat out wrong a few times. These are news stories to us but there is real people suffering behind the headlines.

I do not see a single fact leading to the parents other than "not acting right", or "not correcting" an incorrect news report. God I hope these parents are able to find this little guy. What a nightmare.

 

[haven71]

I meant that the time frame (early interviews) was what they were behaviorally analyzing. I.I.R.C.

<modsnip>

I'll look for the link to support what I meant.

Sheriff Bowerman:
&#8220;All four have taken&#8230;voluntarily taken polygraphs and right now that...those have been turned over to the FBI. We&#8217;ve given them lots of items to analyze&#8230;uh&#8230;behaviorally, and we&#8217;ve given them some physical evidence. I can&#8217;t go into those details but&#8230;we&#8217;re basically uh&#8230;trying to cover all of our bases.&#8221;

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08...orr-kunz-case/

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Re: Behavioral analysis.

“The FBI informed us that they could not analyze some evidence that we gave them,” Bowerman wrote in an email to EastIdahoNews.com Friday. “I’m not sure what that’s about, and they still haven’t provided me any behavioral analysis.”

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/10/sheriff-fbi-unable-to-analyze-some-evidence-in-deorr-kunz-case/

HTH.

 

[haven71]

Sheriff Bowerman:
&#8220;All four have taken&#8230;voluntarily taken polygraphs and right now that...those have been turned over to the FBI. We&#8217;ve given them lots of items to analyze&#8230;uh&#8230;behaviorally, and we&#8217;ve given them some physical evidence. I can&#8217;t go into those details but&#8230;we&#8217;re basically uh&#8230;trying to cover all of our bases.&#8221;


http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08...orr-kunz-case/

Edited to add: When SB says it has given lots of items to analyze behaviorally, then those were things early on, before the FBI stepped in. IMO

 

[haven71]

I have learned to not make assumptions of guilt based on zero facts. In this case it seemed they looked for little DeOrr and when they couldn't find anything
the FBI was asked to help. I don't assume they found anything since nothing has happened since. I really think this boy wandered off.

I mentioned the case of Becky Watts before in these threads, that father was flat out assumed guilty by many until facts came out that made "weird" behavior make sense.

I see a lot of people saying that they wouldn't care what the public thought if their child was missing but honestly, if my baby was gone and on top of that I was being blamed? It would absolutely gut me.

I think asking questions is very important I just have learned to be more careful than I used to be when I post. I have been guilty of voicing "gut feelings" in the past fully believing them and I turned out to be flat out wrong a few times. These are news stories to us but there is real people suffering behind the headlines.

I do not see a single fact leading to the parents other than "not acting right", or "not correcting" an incorrect news report. God I hope these parents are able to find this little guy. What a nightmare.

I have a question. What are we allowed to say on these forums? They're discussion forums. If there were no theories or thoughts on any of the interviews or articles on MSM, what is left?

Simply a timeline and MSM links?

 

[ILOKAL]

Sheriff Bowerman:
&#8220;All four have taken&#8230;voluntarily taken polygraphs and right now that...those have been turned over to the FBI. We&#8217;ve given them lots of items to analyze&#8230;uh&#8230;behaviorally, and we&#8217;ve given them some physical evidence. I can&#8217;t go into those details but&#8230;we&#8217;re basically uh&#8230;trying to cover all of our bases.&#8221;

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08...orr-kunz-case/

Yes, that's what I recall. Nothing about the FBI "focusing" their investigation on behavioral analysis. And, the most recent comment from SB regarding the behavioral analysis was that the FBI still hasn't provided him with any and also that there is some evidence the FBI has said it CAN'T analyze.

 

[Hoosier952]

How large of a store is the Stage Stop, do we know? Is there a deli there where Deorr got his fries? How many employees work there at the same time? I have 5 kids, and I cannot imagine stopping at a store like that for more than 15 minutes MAX. If it were a Walmart, that would be a different story. Also important to note, that why would they need to shop for 30 minutes? Camping, when planned, most likely wouldn't include a 30 minute stop to shop for food and tampons (or whatever they bought). In addition, isn't this the time and place that the clerk remembered having a conversation with the parents, but couldn't remember seeing Deorr? And that there was a possibility that someone saw him outside in the truck. With both parents inside the store, do you think they would be in there 30 minutes???

I have 3 kids, and I can't imagine staying more than a few minutes either, especially if I needed tampons, but then I started to think about a little gas station nearby. It caters to those visiting the state park and the canoe/kayak renters. (Apparently canoers isn't a word, who knew?!) They have a little restaurant in the back that fixes standard menu options (burgers, fries, etc). I've waited in there over 20 minutes for food. They cook everything after it's ordered. Maybe it's possible they had to wait for food to be cooked, and if it was busy, maybe there were others ahead of them in line also waiting for food. But waiting that long for food brings up the question, why didn't anyone see Deorr in the store that day?

 

[Rayemonde]

I noticed in the news clip yesterday, the newsreader said that the parents were away from DeOrr for 20 minutes. So if no one had eyes on DeOrr for about 4 minutes (as was said in earlier interviews) does that mean they left DeOrr with grandpa, and then DeOrr spent about 15 minutes with grandpa, then grandpa was distracted for a moment and when he looked back little DeOrr was gone, but he assumed he had met up with his parents?

 

[Rayemonde]

What is the best way to abduct a toddler on a campsite with 4 adults around?

I guess either just grab him, put your hand over his mouth and run off with him, or lure him with candy or a puppy or a toy or something.

Or if you're not worried about hurting him, hit him over the head with something to knock him out.